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TheHutts
Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 1:39:43 PM
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fingersandteeth wrote:
enforcer i think is a testament to how much power has creeped since that set.


In this case, it's much more about WOTC and their undercosted double/twin shooters like Dash, right? We haven't really seen too many power Fringe shooters from the v-sets - obviously the new Boba is really good, but he's still not a big damage dealer for the cost.
Echo24
Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 1:41:32 PM
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Yeah, Boba Enforcer wasn't competitive well before V-sets came out.
fingersandteeth
Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 3:36:32 PM
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yeah, its mainly about how WotC ramped things up towards the end of the game.

You said it in your review, he was essentially replaced by gungans.
Weeks
Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 4:44:24 PM
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fingersandteeth wrote:

You said it in your review, he was essentially replaced by gungans.


A fate worse than death.
TheHutts
Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 7:32:48 PM
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But better than being slowly digested over a thousand years, right?

Lucien Draay, Jedi Master, from Command of the Galaxy



Quote:
57 points, Old Republic
Hit Points: 130
Defense: 21
Attack: 15
Damage: 20

Special Abilities
Unique
Covenant
Speed 8 (Can move up to 8 squares and attack, or 16 squares without attacking)
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Triple Attack (On his turn, this character can make 2 extra attacks instead of moving)
Shii-Cho Style (+4 Attack and +4 Defense when 3 or more enemies are within 6 squares)

Force Powers
Force 2
Force Renewal 1 (This character gets 1 Force point each time he activates)
Master of the Force 2 (May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn)
Dispassionate Killer (Force 1: +4 Attack and +20 Damage until the end of this character's turn. At the end of that turn, make a save of 11. If the save fails, this character is immediately defeated.)
Force Push 3 (Force 3, replaces turn: range 6; 30 damage to target and to each character adjacent to that target, and push back target and each character adjacent to that target 3 squares if Huge or smaller)
Lightsaber Defense (Force 1: When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Lightsaber Riposte (Force 1: When hit by a melee attack, this character can make an immediate attack against that attacker)

Commander Effect
Covenant followers gain Speed 8. At the end of this character's turn, 1 Covenant follower within 6 squares may make an immediate attack.



It always feels hard to fit a high cost piece into an Old Republic squad - by the time you slot in Bastila and Lobot, that's 60 points that are spoken for, so spending 57 points on a single piece after that can be tough. But Lucien Draay is a tank, a 130 point beast with great stats, Shii-Cho style, lightsaber defense with MOTF2; plenty of squads will struggle to drop him their commander effects turned off by BastilaHe's not lacking in offense either; he has triple attack, Dispassionate Killer (much more tantalising wirg Master of the Force 2), Force Push 3, and Lightsaber Riposte. He also has a cannon CE for a Covenant follower, giving them an immediate attack; a Covenant Protector with twin is a good candidate, while he has Speed 8 and hands it out to Covenant followers.

Lucien's weakness is that he isn't able to put out much damage on the move - you can throw in the Revanchist to give him Ambush, but otherwise he has to be stationary to use his Triple. I don't know if Lucien even saw play this Regional season, but I do think there's potential for him to be really good - he packs a lot of power into a 57 point piece, a potent attacker, a cannon CE, and a tough defensive game are a strong package, even at 57 points. 8/10.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:16:28 PM
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Probably needs a Consular to get into position.

(Oops. Follower only. They can't help him.)
TheHutts
Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:52:14 PM
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Shaper Adept, from Invasion



Quote:
14 points, Yuuzhan Vong
Hit Points: 30
Defense: 16
Attack: 2
Damage: 10

Special Abilities
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Corrosive Acid (This character's abilities that affect living characters also affect non-living characters)
Droid Fanaticism (At the start of this character's turn, if a nonliving enemy with a printed Damage rating of 10 or more is within 12 squares, this character gains Savage until the end of the turn)
Droid Seeker (Can target a Droid enemy with cover even if it's not the nearest enemy)
Force Immunity (Enemies cannot affect this character with Force powers, or spend Force points to reroll attacks against this character or to respond to this character's attacks and abilities)
Razorbug (Replaces attacks: sight; 10 damage; save 11)
Thud Bug (Replaces attacks: range 6; 10 damage, living target is considered activated this round; save 11 negates. Huge and larger characters ignore the nondamaging effect.)

Commander Effect
Yuuzhan Vong followers gain Droid Seeker and Corrosive Acid.


The Shaper Adept isn't very glamorous, but it fills a hole for the Vong - Yomin Carr and his Spit Poison CE didn't work against non-living characters, which didn't make a lot of canonical sense, since Vong hated droids and would have found a way to hurt them too. The Shaper Adept means that spit poison squads have a way in against droid squads. Really, you're never going to mainline the Shaper Adept into a squad, but it's a great reinforcement choice with Supreme Overlord Quorreal featuring in most Vong squads. Nothing exciting here - it has a bunch of SAs, but with 30 hit points it's going to be sitting out the back in most games - but the Shaper Adept turns a bad matchup into a game, and that's something to commend, 7/10.

PS. - are there any other Vong SAs that don't affect Droids? Spit Poison is the obvious one, but I was wondering if I've forgotten something?
TimmerB123
Posted: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 9:43:48 PM
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TheHutts wrote:
Shaper Adept, from Invasion

PS. - are there any other Vong SAs that don't affect Droids? Spit Poison is the obvious one, but I was wondering if I've forgotten something?


There's one right on his card. ;)

Quote:

Thud Bug (Replaces attacks: range 6; 10 damage, living target is considered activated this round; save 11 negates. Huge and larger characters ignore the nondamaging effect.)


Also don't forget regular old skool Poison (The ability, not the band). Everyone forgets Yomin also gives that.

Yes, clearly spit poison on droids is a key mechanic of his, but there are a few others that are less obvious.

Droid Seeker gives "super accurate" vs droids. Vong followers can now thud bug an R7 in cover behind a hero, they can spit poison on IG-88 hiding behind an uggie, they can razor bug that commando droid with stealth across the map. Heck you can even hit that cloaked IG-110 Lightsaber Droid with a blast bug when it's in cover and you're not adjacent.

So there is some cool synergy with the Yun Harla Fanatic from the same set. They have Razorbug Assault (basically move up to 12 and razorbug all legal targets). Pair these two up together and you can hit every single droid you have LoS to with a razor bug. Take that 10 mouse dump! Of course we purposefully made it so you can't get them both with Quorreal's reinforcements. Really would love to play this combo vs an HK and mouse wall squad.
thereisnotry
Posted: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 8:08:58 AM
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It's a well-designed mini. Thanks for sharing the designers' thought process, Tim.
fingersandteeth
Posted: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 8:34:01 AM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Heck you can even hit that cloaked IG-110 Lightsaber Droid with a blast bug when it's in cover and you're not adjacent.



Droid seeker does not ignore cover, FYI. Its accurate shot on droids that also allows accurate Special Abilities but its not a cloaked counter.
TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:21:25 AM
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fingersandteeth wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Heck you can even hit that cloaked IG-110 Lightsaber Droid with a blast bug when it's in cover and you're not adjacent.



Droid seeker does not ignore cover, FYI. Its accurate shot on droids that also allows accurate Special Abilities but its not a cloaked counter.


Whoops, my bad. The only droid with cloaked wasn't in play when we made this piece, lol. OK - so not that last bit, but the rest is true.

It works similar to Ephant Mon's CE in that it works on all targeting (SAs, FPs, and attacks)

It would be a sweet way to take out those pesky BX Spotter Droids. A bunch of Shaper Adept aided razor bugs can take one down from across the board without fear of the energy shield.
Deathwielded
Posted: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 12:25:08 PM
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TheHutts wrote:


Lucien's weakness is that he isn't able to put out much damage on the move - you can throw in the Revanchist to give him Ambush, but otherwise he has to be stationary to use his Triple. I don't know if Lucien even saw play this Regional season, but I do think there's potential for him to be really good - he packs a lot of power into a 57 point piece, a potent attacker, a cannon CE, and a tough defensive game are a strong package, even at 57 points. 8/10.


Thats why I would love to see a Cheap option to give out GMA in the Old Republic. I have tried out many different combinations to try to get the Covenant subfaction a really respectable squad. And have almost givin up hope. I think it's time to move on to other sub-factions (al la Army of Light) and stop beating this dead horse, unless you intend to make a power piece to really make the Covenant worthwhile? Thar latest Covenant Piece is an exception since I think it's quite useful even outside of Covenant squads.

If Lucian had a GMA or an ally who give GMA to him without costing lots of points (like really in this case 25 points would be pushing it) he would do much better. Lots of good elements here to make him quite fun to play.
TheHutts
Posted: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:34:22 PM
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Talz Chieftain, from The Dark Times



Quote:
16 points, Fringe
Hit Points: 60
Defense: 17
Attack: 9
Damage: 10

Special Abilities
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Advantageous Attack (+10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round)

Commander Effect
Non-Unique Fringe followers within 6 squares get +4 Attack and +10 Damage against non-Unique enemies.


Such a weird niche commander effect - non-unique fringe followers get +4 attack and +10 damage against non-unique enemies? It's hard enough to get your head around, let alone find a squad where it's useful. There's no way you'd mainline such a niche commander effect, but it does have a way in with Lobot. You'd think, with the advent of Talon Karrde and viable all-Fringe squads, the Talz Chieftain would be playable, but his Commander Effect doesn't stack with Talon's since they're both straight unnamed bonuses. He might be playable if you're playing a swarm of non-unique Fringe attackers in another faction, and you're playing against a squad with plenty of non-uniques, but even then he's up against similarly priced and less niche commanders like Jabba Crime Lord and the Chiss Captain, who do similar things.

Apart from the Commander Effect, the Talz Chieftain piece is a reasonably robust attacker for 16 points, with 60 hit points, advantageous, and double attack, but you're certainly not going to play him just as an attacker, so if you can't use his commander effect he's not going to see play. And while there might be the odd game where his CE comes in handy, I really don't think you even need to bother with one of these in your Lobot reinforcements box, unless you regularly play the kinds of squads that the CE can help, 3/10.
TheHutts
Posted: Thursday, August 28, 2014 9:01:23 PM
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Rebel Soldier, from Masters of the Force



Quote:
13 points, Rebel
Hit Points: 30
Defense: 14
Attack: 6
Damage: 20

Special Abilities
Grenades 30 (Replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and to each character adjacent to that target; save 11)
Squad Assault (+4 Attack while 3 allies with the same name as this character are within 6 squares)
Squad Cover (+4 Defense while 3 allies with the same name as this character are within 6 squares)


Rebel Soldiers are underwhelming - I don't think there's a single way to get their damage up, so you're stuck with a boring piece that does 20 damage. If you play 4 of them, and keep them close to each other, they get up to a 18 defense and a 10 attack (and there are some ways to get to a higher attack, like old school Admiral Ackbar), but you're just stuck with 52 points of boring mediocrity. Grenades 30 can be useful, but I'd much rather play the Rebel Vanguard with Missiles 30 instead. So overall, a mediocre and boring piece with little of interest - I doubt anyone ever bothers playing these. 2/10.
TheHutts
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 12:20:09 AM
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Mandalorian Scout, from Knights of the Old Republic



Quote:
19 points, Mandalorian
Hit Points: 50
Defense: 17
Attack: 8
Damage: 10

Special Abilities
Cloaked (If this character has cover, he cannot be targeted by nonadjacent enemies)
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Greater Mobile Attack (Can move both before and after attacking. This character can make extra attacks even if he moves this turn, but he must make them all before resuming movement.)
Opportunist (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has activated this round)


One of the best non-uniques in the game, the Mandalorian Scout has been a staple of Mandalorian squads from release until the present day, and a couple of Scouts featured in this year's GenCon winning squad:

Quote:
--Movin Mandos 2014 Gencon Champion--
58 Mandalore the Vindicated
28 Kelborn
24 Mandalorian Tactician
23 Mandalorian Captain
38 Mandalorian Scout x2
11 Death Watch Saboteur
12 Mandalorian Demolitionist x2
6 Mouse Droid x2
(200pts. 11 activations)


The Scout is just a very lean, efficient piece - with Cloaked and 50 hit points, they have very good defense for a 19 shooter. On offense, all they do is shoot, but they do it very well, with Greater Mobile, Double, and Opportunist, as well as easy access to Twin (they can get it from a Czerka, a Mandalorian Scientist, or a Mandalorian Captain), they're often making four attacks at +12 for 20 damage against an activated enemy. Even with plenty of new v-set options for the Mandos, it's unusual not to see a Scout in a Mandalorian squad; possibly the only Mando builds to regularly exclude Scouts are the new Neo-Crusader squads, which revolve around pieces that don't have access to Twin. The Mando is a super strong piece for the Mandos, an easily boostable, Mobile, Cloaked Shooter. 10/10.
fingersandteeth
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 5:08:59 PM
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yeah, like the ERC, this kind of set the WotC bar of competitive non-uniqes.

In faction synergy is obscene and power output for cost is top tier. Being cloaked is the round off. Nasty shooters.
TheHutts
Posted: Sunday, August 31, 2014 1:27:50 AM
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Darth Sidious, Sith Mastermind, from Bounty Hunters Challenge



Quote:
100 points, Imperial
Hit Points: 150
Defense: 22
Attack: 17
Damage: 20

Special Abilities
Unique
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Triple Attack (On his turn, this character can make 2 extra attacks instead of moving)
Evade (When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Jedi Hunter (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against enemies with Force ratings)
Parry (When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Rapport (A character whose name contains Darth Vader costs 10 less when in the same squad as this character)
Synergy +4 (An ally whose name contains Darth Vader gets +4 Attack while within 6 squares of this character)

Force Powers
Force 3
Force Renewal 3 (This character gets 3 Force points each time he activates)
Master of the Force 2 (May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn)
Force Lightning 4 (Force 4, replaces attacks: range 6; 50 damage to target. Huge or smaller characters are considered activated this round; save 16)
Lightsaber Assault (Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks)
Sith Rage (Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn)

Commander Effect
You decide who goes first each round regardless of initiative check, unless you roll a 1. Characters in your squad can spend Force points from this character. (A character still can't spend Force points more than once per turn and can't combine this character's Force points with their own.)


From the first pair of Bounty Hunter Challenge pieces, Sidious Sith Mastermind is a tough nut to crack - like a mega-Jarael with Evade and Parry, and more Force Points and Hit Points to go around. On one hand, he raised an entire thread of angst upon release, complaining about his toughness, but on the other hand he really hasn't made a splash in competitive play - I don't think he's ever cracked the Top 4 of a Regional or placed highly in a New Zealand event. As well as his strong defenses, he also has offense with Jedi Hunter and Sith Rage, meaning that he can put significant damage on one piece in a phase, but he doesn't have any area damage, so he's going to struggle against swarms.

As an Imperial piece, the initial reaction is to stick him in a Thrawn swap squad - but when you think about it, you can get similar amounts of damage out of Cad Bane, who's 46 points cheaper, can shoot, and do damage on the move, while you're also paying twice for initiative control. But he's a good piece, with lot of damage avoidance capabilities, and with his Rapport 10 for Darth Vaders, there's probably some scope for having a Vader and Palpatine beatdown squad (maybe Scourge of the Jedi is a good option?) - these ideas have been raised on Sith Holo News Network, but I've never seen them in action.

With Evade, Parry, and high hit points, Palpatine is certainly an intimidating prospect, but a 100 point piece does need to be very strong to justify its high cost. With the release of the new Palpatine Reborn, who's cheaper and has the potential for area damage, I don't know if he's ever going to have the chance to make a splash in the competitive game - although I could see him being nasty at 150 points, where he's less likely to run into bad matchups like swarms. Palpatine Sith Mastermind is an intimidating enough prospect, but his lack of competitive success thus far means that it's hard to justify more than a 7/10.
TheHutts
Posted: Sunday, August 31, 2014 8:48:10 PM
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Han Solo, Smuggler, from Knights of the Old Republic



Quote:
27 points, Rebel
Hit Points: 70
Defense: 16
Attack: 10
Damage: 20

Special Abilities
Unique
Accurate Shot (Can attack an enemy with cover even if it's not the nearest enemy)
Opportunist +20 (+4 Attack and +20 Damage against an enemy who has activated this round)


On his own, Han Solo Smuggler looks underwhelming, but he synergises so well with Rebel power pieces, General Rieekan, General Dodonna, and Princess Leia, that he was the primary damage dealer for two consecutive GenCon winners, the Rebel squads in 2009 and 2010. Dodonna gives his squads access to tempo control, Rieekan gives him Mobile and Evade, and with Princess Leia's CE, he can take an accurate shot at +18 for 50 against an activated target. With his own shot at +14 for 40 on top of that, he can lay down some serious damage for the Rebels at the end of a round - 90 accurate damage out of a 47 point combo is an outstanding bargain, even if both pieces are very squishy. Like lots of other good pieces in the game, it's just a case of being a very efficient piece - Han doesn't have anything superfluous, so you're not paying for random abilities like Grenades, just a very straightforward and powerful shooter. 10/10.
General_Grievous
Posted: Monday, September 1, 2014 8:07:42 AM
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TheHutts wrote:
Darth Sidious, Sith Mastermind, from Bounty Hunters Challenge



Quote:
100 points, Imperial
Hit Points: 150
Defense: 22
Attack: 17
Damage: 20

Special Abilities
Unique
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Triple Attack (On his turn, this character can make 2 extra attacks instead of moving)
Evade (When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Jedi Hunter (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against enemies with Force ratings)
Parry (When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Rapport (A character whose name contains Darth Vader costs 10 less when in the same squad as this character)
Synergy +4 (An ally whose name contains Darth Vader gets +4 Attack while within 6 squares of this character)

Force Powers
Force 3
Force Renewal 3 (This character gets 3 Force points each time he activates)
Master of the Force 2 (May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn)
Force Lightning 4 (Force 4, replaces attacks: range 6; 50 damage to target. Huge or smaller characters are considered activated this round; save 16)
Lightsaber Assault (Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks)
Sith Rage (Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn)

Commander Effect
You decide who goes first each round regardless of initiative check, unless you roll a 1. Characters in your squad can spend Force points from this character. (A character still can't spend Force points more than once per turn and can't combine this character's Force points with their own.)


From the first pair of Bounty Hunter Challenge pieces, Sidious Sith Mastermind is a tough nut to crack - like a mega-Jarael with Evade and Parry, and more Force Points and Hit Points to go around. On one hand, he raised an entire thread of angst upon release, complaining about his toughness, but on the other hand he really hasn't made a splash in competitive play - I don't think he's ever cracked the Top 4 of a Regional or placed highly in a New Zealand event. As well as his strong defenses, he also has offense with Jedi Hunter and Sith Rage, meaning that he can put significant damage on one piece in a phase, but he doesn't have any area damage, so he's going to struggle against swarms.

As an Imperial piece, the initial reaction is to stick him in a Thrawn swap squad - but when you think about it, you can get similar amounts of damage out of Cad Bane, who's 46 points cheaper, can shoot, and do damage on the move, while you're also paying twice for initiative control. But he's a good piece, with lot of damage avoidance capabilities, and with his Rapport 10 for Darth Vaders, there's probably some scope for having a Vader and Palpatine beatdown squad (maybe Scourge of the Jedi is a good option?) - these ideas have been raised on Sith Holo News Network, but I've never seen them in action.

With Evade, Parry, and high hit points, Palpatine is certainly an intimidating prospect, but a 100 point piece does need to be very strong to justify its high cost. With the release of the new Palpatine Reborn, who's cheaper and has the potential for area damage, I don't know if he's ever going to have the chance to make a splash in the competitive game - although I could see him being nasty at 150 points, where he's less likely to run into bad matchups like swarms. Palpatine Sith Mastermind is an intimidating enough prospect, but his lack of competitive success thus far means that it's hard to justify more than a 7/10.


I still think this guy, and all of the other BHC pieces are some of my favourite. Great super powered versions of the characters we love, and this is truly Palpatine at his finest. Even perhaps more so than the phantom menace
TheHutts
Posted: Monday, September 1, 2014 3:04:30 PM
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Joined: 6/23/2010
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Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
Techno Union Warrior, from The Clone Wars



Quote:
13 points, Separatist
Hit Points: 10
Defense: 16
Attack: 6
Damage: 20

Special Abilities
Flux Density +10 (+10 Damage if one or more Droid characters combine fire with this character)
Synchronized Fire (Droid characters who combine fire with this character grant +6 Attack instead of +4)


Like the IG-86 did for droids, the Klat Assassin has redefined the costings for shooters around the 10-15 point mark, and the Techno Union Warrior is one of those pieces that just looks awful in comparison. The Klat Assassin costs one less, is fringe, has Cloaked, 20 extra hit points, 6 extra attack, Jedi Hatred, Self Destruct 20. To be fair, such comparisons are beside the point anyway - 13 points for a 10 hit point piece is generally unworkable, and the Techno Union Warrior just isn't a good piece. The bonuses for a droid combining fire are flavourful, but nothing that really helps in a competitive game, and the Techno Union Warrior is clearly a 1/10.
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