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The Great Vehicle Set Thread Options
blemelisk
Posted: Monday, June 5, 2017 11:37:21 AM
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Here I have listed a number of vehicles which I have started with. They have starter stats and somewhat a direction I see it going. in the flavor text is a link to wookiepedia as well as the page from the RPG book for the vehicle (not all of them have the page number, but I will put them where i can)

I know it is a very large list, but am looking for input on these to make them true to their in universe selves but also a bit more unique and different from each other (as much as they are in universe).

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27842/tie-ap-1-mauler

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27843/at-mp

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27844/at-dp

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27845/at-pt

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27847/aat

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27854/cav-px-10

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27857/tx-130-saber-class-fighter-tank

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27859/t2-b-repulsor-tank

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27872/t1-b-repulsor-tank

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27870/mekuun-heavy-tracker

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27864/mountain-terrain-armored-transport

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27866/command-speeder-714-d

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27868/alliance-freerunner

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27862/super-tank

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27861/t4-b-heavy-tank

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27860/wlo-5-battle-tank

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27858/2-m-hover-tank

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27846/hmp-droid-gunship

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27869/rebel-ulav

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27850/defoliator-deployment-tank

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27853/mlc-3-light-tank

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27851/storm-iv-twin-pod-cloud-car

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27848/t-16-skyhopper

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27873/htt-26-heavy-troop-transport

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27874/lancet-aerial-artillery

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27863/canderous-class-assault-tank

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27878/storm-skimmer

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27877/at-xt

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27876/v-wing-airspeeder

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27875/srv-1

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27879/imperial-troop-transport

http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27881/at-ap
kobayashimaru
Posted: Monday, June 5, 2017 11:15:21 PM
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Awesome!
I've commented on a couple of the flyer and droid-ier ones, mainly about costing potentials.
I'm liking the angles on a lot of the different flyers. there's a lot of ideas here
thanks for sharing. BlooMilk

My favorite at this time though, is the T-16 skyhopper.
blemelisk
Posted: Monday, June 12, 2017 3:36:35 PM
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I was wondering if I could get some help costing them and tweeking them some?
kobayashimaru
Posted: Monday, June 12, 2017 5:42:43 PM
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@blemelisk,
sure thing BlooMilk
were there any specific ones you were seeking concrit and workshopping on?

as a general overall feedback in addition to directed feedback on the standouts,
indeed, you're already in the ballpark of the final cost,
to me, you ostensibly undercost by 3-8pts, based on meta,
though some pieces are over-costed as their avg survivability means they won't make the impact.
it's a little like the game show "The Price Is Right" hehe BigGrin
its an inexact art, though I think you've got the knack of it.

Surf had a neat spreadsheet idea, and that stat-card generator over at gamers had an interesting cost routine.
I think the base was
4pts
non unique 0 SAs
10hp
10def
+4ATK
10dmg.

it's +1pt per 10Hp/1DEF/1ATK until a limit.
its +2~5pts to 20DMG,
and +10pts to 30DMG, then +20~25pts for 40DMG... exponential thereafter.

It's then, count the number of positive and negative SAs, FPs or CEs,
and for each SA over 4 theres a +1-3pt penalty,
negative SAs, and some CEs subtract -1~-5pts.
negative SAs are how to keep a piece around the pricepoint you want.


using the above costing approach,
that's what is leading to the feeling some are undercosted. that, and potential meta combos hehe.
bear in mind though, that algorithm will tend to overcost rather than undercost.
a lot hinges on those metacombos, and the subjective appraisal of what constitutes a positive or negative SA, FP, CE etc.

so,
I think you've achieved what you set out to achieve, blemelisk
namely, to encapsulate these vehicles, without making them 'cookie cutter'.
each offers a genuinely different suite of SAs at a different price point,
which don't overcompete, either with each other, or existing VSET or WotC pieces,
which is a crucial consideration in minis.

As to making vehicles competitive and viable outright,
I think we need staggered activation, and an overhaul of how vehicles and terrain interact,
so as vehicles can demolish terrain etc
that is entirely my own subjective reflection on the direction
vehicles ostensibly oughta head towards hehe.

vehicles that have staggered activation boosts the activations,
and adds a wildcard factor; what might the vehicle do with those acts, in which order?
so, that slight unpredictability is what vehicles have going for them,
in addition to asymmetry or mobility.

contrast that with the Official ATAT, which is predictable thanks to the ponderous relentless hehe.
blemelisk
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 3:12:19 PM
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Im def going to go with this and run with it. I feel indeed you are 100% right on staggard activations, for at least some vehicles. I feel the smaller one mans are just much smaller AT-STs or equiv AT-RT, and I think they work well as they are. but The HAVw A6 Juggernaut should DEF be staggard, as possibly the MT-AT. My gargantuans possibly need to be staggard.

The SPHA http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Self-Propelled_Heavy_Artillery has to be staggard, it is bigger than a AT-TE.

RX-200 Falchion should as well http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/RX-200_Falchion-class_assault_tank but im not sure what to do with its main weapon, a stun cannon doesnt make as much sense in the game. It stunned the creature, but against a vehicle id assume it would do serious damage. (just not as much as the SPHA) as both weapons look very similar with this one being a smaller version of what is on a SPHA.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_tank has to be staggard with im not sure how many activation. I do know one thing, i wouldnt want to face it. Id rather take my chances against 2 AT-ATs Razz
TheHutts
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 3:29:52 PM
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I just looked at the first one (http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27842/tie-ap-1-mauler) - these are my thoughts:

If you compare it with a Storm Commando - a 17 point non-unique WOTC Imperial piece with double attack, and comparable stats, I think the Storm Commando is stronger overall - it doesn't have a huge base (a significant disadvantage) and it has more useful Special Abilities.

http://www.bloomilk.com/Character/1496/stormtrooper-sniper from the v-sets is another comparison.

Unless there are specific commander effects for it, it's just not playable. It feels like Huges were treated fairly badly by WOTC, and none of them were useful, and it's not a good place to start from. I think you could cost in the early 20s and be fine.
blemelisk
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 3:55:11 PM
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TheHutts wrote:
I just looked at the first one (http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/27842/tie-ap-1-mauler) - these are my thoughts:

If you compare it with a Storm Commando - a 17 point non-unique WOTC Imperial piece with double attack, and comparable stats, I think the Storm Commando is stronger overall - it doesn't have a huge base (a significant disadvantage) and it has more useful Special Abilities.

http://www.bloomilk.com/Character/1496/stormtrooper-sniper from the v-sets is another comparison.

Unless there are specific commander effects for it, it's just not playable. It feels like Huges were treated fairly badly by WOTC, and none of them were useful, and it's not a good place to start from.


You are likely right, it is my goal to make them useful, or have a purpose. That you would use a storm commando for one thing and a tie mauler for another. It might be that I need to make the vehicles more deadly over all, and have really good HP/DR/Shields. so that indeed just as is in real life, when a combat vehicle comes up in a combat situation it is very likely to become a primary target due to its lethality.

What I am doing in this thread is just phase 1 of making strong useable vehicles that others might actually consider using (maybe, maybe not for competitions if anything i make goes into a V set, which isnt going to happen as I am not an official designer) in their various games. Phase 2 would include support characters/vehicles with CEs and abilities etc to augment these vehicles. The point isnt to have these vehicles replace the non vehicles, but to offer a valid choice/option, on certain maps and play styles. More options and choices are always preferred (else why are we still creating new characters long after this game ended production?) and I am just doing what I can to try and bring about more options and choices with existing pieces and existing star wars creations. Razz

Our Current CCC 57 is an example of trying to make the Huge figures (spec for the Seps in this case) be more useful and have a place in your squads.
TheHutts
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 4:00:54 PM
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Based on that one, I think the power level is just too low - I think you're using WOTC huges as the baseline, so you're kind of dooming them to being irrelevant. I'd shave 10-15 points off it, and throw on some more candy, and it might get interesting.
blemelisk
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 4:07:19 PM
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TheHutts wrote:
Based on that one, I think the power level is just too low - I think you're using WOTC huges as the baseline, so you're kind of dooming them to being irrelevant. I'd shave 10-15 points off it, and throw on some more candy, and it might get interesting.


Oh yes, def, I am just starting. in the end I plan on having http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_tank?file=TankDroid_egvv.jpg be one the most deadly things on any battlefield save a WOEFULLY powerful force character. (and it will be costed as properly as possible)
kobayashimaru
Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2017 9:08:26 AM
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you must be heading in the right direction
a lot of folks are leaving awesome feedback BigGrin BlooMilk

Staggered Activation is tricky, it can be between 1 to say 10 or so.
While at first not appearing to have utility, Staggered Activation 1 prevents pawn of the darkside and some other situational VSET 'betrayal/hacking" etc...
it could have speed 0, and no actual movement SA's, or damage... say, a republic command post or shield generator emplacement.

they could also all be movement only on a non-attacking transport, 5 activations, speed 8, accelerate 24... now, that is a nasty amount of movement for a starfighter... BigGrin
or 2/3rds movement, 1 for attack, 2 attack, 1 movement, all kinds of combos out to 10 activations on one vehicle.
you can play with it, as there's only 1 official miniature with Staggered Activation -
staggered activation is this hook that WotC put there, and never completely developed.

having one vehicle add an extra 10 acts, is a defacto San Hill tempo control almost,
that is, if the vehicle survives. having it also have recon and reserves etc,
that'd be real nasty.

If you have shields X and DR10 or DR20,
that will survive long enough to force more Ion weapons and 'hobsons choice auto-includes' like direct damage, into the meta haha.

This would make vehicles a go-to counter for vong spamster squads, especially if a tank had
"crush-n-grind; while moving, if this character would move through a square occupied by an enemy, that enemy without Flight is defeated, save 11. if they succeed on the save, the character moves away from the vehicle until it is no longer touching where that vehicle would move, save 11. this movement causes AoO's...

now, see, that'd put a dent into a lot of squad spamming and those stupid survivable vong.
muahaha!
blemelisk
Posted: Thursday, June 29, 2017 6:35:54 PM
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Joined: 2/17/2017
Posts: 237
Does anyone know of any vehicles that could be added to this set?
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