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OP Squads Right now Options
TimmerB123
Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 10:55:47 AM
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I'm on board with a lot of this discussion, but I'm not with Jangolore.


He's good, but he's not THAT good.


Who has played him in a tournament setting? I have. Jason has. Bryan has. That's it that I know of.


Only 1 made the top 4, and won it due to missing a bad matchup and another opponent that should have beat him crapped the bed.





And NO - I don't think a piece has to become overly dominant before we consider nerfing them. NPEs are important to nip in the bud.


I just don't think he is an issue personally. At the very least - too early to tell.



Etienne - I encourage you to play him. I didn't get a good sense of him until I did.
atmsalad
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 2:43:45 PM
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I dislike jango for the same reason I hate strafe.(Yes, I actually hate strafe) Any piece 30hp and under is practically done for. It discourages you from playing squads that actually need mouse droids to relay orders. Not that there are any of those squads in the tier 1 category anyway. I hate him because of the mass power creep in one character.

Hes another character that can do triple 30 damage with accurate, and with Kelborn hes still mobile. His attack is ridiculous and is becoming the norm for shooters while melee pieces are being left to suffer with at most a 15 attack on average and 17 on a good day. His defense, hp and Beskar 6 would be chastised on a melee piece. You transplant Jangos stats onto a melee character and people would flip shit, oh, but he still wouldn't be as good because the melee guy cant shoot.

The only reason Jango is not dominating is because he has shit for support in Mandos. Once that changes how OP he is will become apparent. Do not get me wrong, I like the purpose and design intent. I just dont think he should have furious/accurate and I dont think his defense should get to a 27!!!
TheHutts
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:06:35 PM
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How does Jango get up to 30 damage per shot? I can't think of any obvious CEs that get it for him? I don't mind him at 60 damage per round, especially without GMA, 90 would be a problem.

EDIT - Mandalore the Resurrector with Advantageous?
spryguy1981
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:09:41 PM
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You run him with Mandalore the Resurrector who gives him Advantageous.
TheHutts
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:19:13 PM
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spryguy1981 wrote:
You run him with Mandalore the Resurrector who gives him Advantageous.


Sorry, I think I updated my post about the same time you posted - thanks for answering.
CorellianComedian
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:29:51 PM
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atmsalad wrote:
with Kelborn hes still mobile.

True
Quote:
His attack is ridiculous and is becoming the norm for shooters while melee pieces are being left to suffer with at most a 15 attack on average and 17 on a good day.

Good point - I do think Melee pieces could stand to get better base stats to counter everything that's going on.
Quote:
His defense, hp and Beskar 6 would be chastised on a melee piece. You transplant Jangos stats onto a melee character and people would flip, oh, but he still wouldn't be as good because the melee guy cant shoot.

Maybe so, but I vehemently disagree with such people. Also, trooper builds can boost their scrubs' attack pretty high - so (A) Jango should be at least as accurate as a Stormtrooper and (B) Mandos need something to deal with uber-high-Attack Trooper builds.
Quote:
The only reason Jango is not dominating is because he has **** for support in Mandos.

I think that's the million-dollar answer right there. What do the Mandos have right now that's good? I don't know if Neo-Crusaders can still squeeze by. Mandalore the Vindicated, maybe? Are Cloaked Scouts still in the running? I'm no master of Mandos, so I couldn't tell you. Neo-Crusaders tend to be based on massive top-of-the-round barrages, but Cloaked Scouts need their Opportunist. With the massive increase in pieces that discourage out-activating and/or ranged attacks in general, I think the Mandos need something crazy to keep everyone else on their toes.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:40:22 PM
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Mandos won gencon...they are fine.
jen'ari
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:40:36 PM
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I can agree that mandos need a tad bit of help, but kelborn auto makes you question support...

Jango is an issue b/c

1) his presence allows for designs to see it say its not broken and repeat. (we got Boba he didnt break anything and now we got jangolore, they will keep coming out and become the norm)
2) i don't think he fixed mandos so its creep just for creeps sake
3) b/c he exists the support mandos need will be nerfed, made not fun (ex. evade to everyone), or forced into a sub-faction.
4) He is not fun.
TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 6:18:48 PM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
Mandos won gencon...they are fine.


4 years ago. That's an eternity in SWM.


Mandos need help. I've been running them at most of the regionals for 3 years now and not won a single tournament with them.


They finally won one, but that was a combo of Jason being broken, missing his bad matchups, and players crapping the bed vs him. Chances of that happening again are highly unlikely.



I'd say they are in the bottom 3 factions currently.
Darth_Jim
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 6:22:49 PM
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Actually, Weeks won with Mandos in 2014...3 years ago.
TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 6:31:55 PM
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Darth_Jim wrote:
Actually, Weeks won with Mandos in 2014...3 years ago.


Sorry - we're 6 weeks from GenCon, so I'm already counting it.

Mandos -2014
Imps - 2015
Rebels - 2016
??? - 2017


Regardless, 1 year can be a giant meta change in SWM. What happened 3 years ago means virtually nothing.
Darth_Jim
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 7:05:28 PM
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My personal NPE's:

1. Vong. This even causes a problem in my marriage because my wife's favorite color is purple.

2.Any squad that features non-uniques as the featured attackers.

3. The MTB

I offer no logic for my hatred of numbers 1 and 3, only my personal expression of distaste. I am not endorsing any bannings or such. In fact, if the Vong meta squads move to unique-centered squads, it might actually be good for the game. The church we used to go to had a choir director who had a skinny head like an MTB. I didn't like him either.

Number 2...featured non-uniques...I consider to be a serious bummer to our game. Star Wars is about heroes and villains, not lemmings.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 7:07:04 PM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Darth_Jim wrote:
Actually, Weeks won with Mandos in 2014...3 years ago.


Sorry - we're 6 weeks from GenCon, so I'm already counting it.

Mandos -2014
Imps - 2015
Rebels - 2016
??? - 2017


Regardless, 1 year can be a giant meta change in SWM. What happened 3 years ago means virtually nothing.



Well looks like imps need more help its been to long since they won. How about seps how long it been since they brought home a trophy?
CorellianComedian
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 7:08:34 PM
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Darth_Jim wrote:
Star Wars is about heroes and villains, not lemmings.


Well said, sir, well said.

I don't even mean that in a political way. That is just hilariously on-point.
Darth_Jim
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 7:14:50 PM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Darth_Jim wrote:
Actually, Weeks won with Mandos in 2014...3 years ago.


Sorry - we're 6 weeks from GenCon, so I'm already counting it.

Mandos -2014
Imps - 2015
Rebels - 2016
??? - 2017


Regardless, 1 year can be a giant meta change in SWM. What happened 3 years ago means virtually nothing.



Well looks like imps need more help its been to long since they won. How about seps how long it been since they brought home a trophy?


If Tim is saying that the meta 3 years ago isn't relevant now, I agree with him. And I don't know if anyone is actually saying this, but I don't think we should 'help' a faction win GenCon, our goal should be to make all factions playable.
Darth_Jim
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 7:19:10 PM
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CorellianComedian wrote:
Darth_Jim wrote:
Star Wars is about heroes and villains, not lemmings.


Well said, sir, well said.

I don't even mean that in a political way. That is just hilariously on-point.


Thanks, but if you'd actually seen that choir director, you'd have thought that line was funnier.
TheHutts
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 7:37:42 PM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
Well looks like imps need more help its been to long since they won. How about seps how long it been since they brought home a trophy?


I think Imps have won the last four NZ Championships - Thrawn with Cad Bane/Morrigan twice, Thrawn double swap once, and Daala once (beat another Daala squad in the final).
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 8:14:40 PM
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Darth_Jim wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Darth_Jim wrote:
Actually, Weeks won with Mandos in 2014...3 years ago.


Sorry - we're 6 weeks from GenCon, so I'm already counting it.

Mandos -2014
Imps - 2015
Rebels - 2016
??? - 2017


Regardless, 1 year can be a giant meta change in SWM. What happened 3 years ago means virtually nothing.



Well looks like imps need more help its been to long since they won. How about seps how long it been since they brought home a trophy?


If Tim is saying that the meta 3 years ago isn't relevant now, I agree with him. And I don't know if anyone is actually saying this, but I don't think we should 'help' a faction win GenCon, our goal should be to make all factions playable.



And I'm saying they all are.
DarthMaim
Posted: Thursday, June 29, 2017 12:34:48 AM
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Location: Los Angeles, California
Darth_Jim wrote:
My personal NPE's:

1. Vong. This even causes a problem in my marriage because my wife's favorite color is purple.

2.Any squad that features non-uniques as the featured attackers.

3. The MTB

I offer no logic for my hatred of numbers 1 and 3, only my personal expression of distaste. I am not endorsing any bannings or such. In fact, if the Vong meta squads move to unique-centered squads, it might actually be good for the game. The church we used to go to had a choir director who had a skinny head like an MTB. I didn't like him either.

Number 2...featured non-uniques...I consider to be a serious bummer to our game. Star Wars is about heroes and villains, not lemmings.



Big +1.
Darth_Jim
Posted: Thursday, June 29, 2017 3:41:08 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 4/23/2008
Posts: 906
Location: Central Pa
Deaths_Baine wrote:
Darth_Jim wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Darth_Jim wrote:
Actually, Weeks won with Mandos in 2014...3 years ago.


Sorry - we're 6 weeks from GenCon, so I'm already counting it.

Mandos -2014
Imps - 2015
Rebels - 2016
??? - 2017


Regardless, 1 year can be a giant meta change in SWM. What happened 3 years ago means virtually nothing.



Well looks like imps need more help its been to long since they won. How about seps how long it been since they brought home a trophy?


If Tim is saying that the meta 3 years ago isn't relevant now, I agree with him. And I don't know if anyone is actually saying this, but I don't think we should 'help' a faction win GenCon, our goal should be to make all factions playable.



And I'm saying they all are.


I agree with you at this point, although I haven't been to a regional yet. I want to see how the Ohio regional shakes down regarding NPEs and squad types.
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