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Caedus
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 6:23:42 AM
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Posts: 583
Deaths_Baine wrote:
Gizmotronx wrote:
So what ARE some good counters to reserves? Never played against them because our group finds it... disturbing.



unleash the force, kaan bomb, zam wessel, hoping they or you don't roll a certain number



Colonel Jacen Solo (Reins and Reserves cost 2 pts more)
Caedus
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 6:37:40 AM
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So this is the squad I ran
--Ode to General Grievous (2017 NW OH Regional Winner)--
61 Pong Krell
55 Kazdan Paratus
33 Captain Rex
15 Lobot, Computer Liaison Officer
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
8 Muun Tactics Broker
9 Mouse Droid x3
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

(199pts. 12 activations)


So looking at this squad, One thing stands out to me. There are no boosts to damage and a minimal boost to attacks. Is this a correct assessment? If that is the case, then I think I would like to face this rather than a ton of stormies Charging and rolling 14-18 for 50 superstealth or other non uniques, for that matter, rolling ridiculously high attacks with twin for 40-50 damage. Multiple opponents had high 1 pt losses against it, meaning that a roll or two or maybe better positioning or patience and the game goes differently. (just my personal opinion)
shmi15
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 6:37:47 AM
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Maybe its time to start thinking about rotating legal pieces :)
jak
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 6:44:16 AM
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Location: Beggers Canyon Tatooine
TimmerB123 wrote:
I take the title for the person who has been squad shamed more than anyone else in history.


But I still don't play luck squads.

except every time time you roll aD20 in this game it's luck, you silly gooseFlapper

IMO the blame is was Pong's designers, hitting reserves on the same numbers as Kazden? whacky!
and now, we're getting a piece to try to correct previous piece's error.
A Vset standardConfused
of course, if you opponent doesn't have the corrective piece in their squad, you can still run the Pong/Kazden combo.


maybe it's time for this piece to be totally spoiledThumpUp
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 6:45:57 AM
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Gizmotronx wrote:
So what ARE some good counters to reserves? Never played against them because our group finds it... disturbing.


V-set 14 has Unkar Plutt, which will hurt Reserves squads considerably. As Jason said, it's why he played them now - because they probably won't have any chance at all in 3 months. Unkar can turn off all init control and also negate 2 of Pong/Kazdan's Reserves numbers. Brings Reserves chances down to 15% from 70+%.

Han Solo, CotMF has a CE that will shut down Tactics Broker, Recon, Anticipation, and Sense the Future. That brings Jason's Reserves chances down to 25%. If he only gets Reserves every 4th round or so, he doesn't have much chance at all.

Ree-Yees can do something similar, but only for one round and only if he makes a save. Not much of a counter, but better than nothing, I guess.

Wuher and Col Jacen to make Reserves more expensive, but that won't do much tbh. You can still bring in a Republic Commando.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 6:48:13 AM
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Joined: 5/31/2010
Posts: 1,504
Caedus wrote:
So this is the squad I ran
--Ode to General Grievous (2017 NW OH Regional Winner)--
61 Pong Krell
55 Kazdan Paratus
33 Captain Rex
15 Lobot, Computer Liaison Officer
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
8 Muun Tactics Broker
9 Mouse Droid x3
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

(199pts. 12 activations)


So looking at this squad, One thing stands out to me. There are no boosts to damage and a minimal boost to attacks. Is this a correct assessment? If that is the case, then I think I would like to face this rather than a ton of stormies Charging and rolling 14-18 for 50 superstealth or other non uniques, for that matter, rolling ridiculously high attacks with twin for 40-50 damage. Multiple opponents had high 1 pt losses against it, meaning that a roll or two or maybe better positioning or patience and the game goes differently. (just my personal opinion)



you sir are right.
urbanjedi
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 6:57:24 AM
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Posts: 1,472
Gizmotronx wrote:
So what ARE some good counters to reserves? Never played against them because our group finds it... disturbing.


A squad with Deep strike capabilities is one way. Pong has 110 with no defensive ability. Kazdan 110 with LS Defense. Clobot is 30 hp with nothing, so the reserves guys aren't beefy at all. Not necessarily the easiest thing to do, but not impossible. Also, taking out R2 astro helps as it controls my movement making it easier to predict where I will be.

Another is just to get in there with beefy guys and start killing stuff as fast as I can make it. Spry was a roll away from beating me in this fashion. He just put ahsoka and Kanan in there and started going at it. I think I would have had a pretty rough matchup against Jangalore as well. Mace would give me fits as well.

Area effects also help as I tend to get clumped up as kazdan and pong both drop their loads adjacent.

jak
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 7:04:47 AM
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Location: Beggers Canyon Tatooine
wow! what was some of this awesome prize support, I hear so much about?Woot
CorellianComedian
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 7:06:43 AM
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Wait, I've heard people complain that Reserves are annoying, but I've never of someone dominating a tournament with them like this. So Unkarr Plutt wasn't necessary UNTIL urbanjedi mopped the floor with everyone... BUT, urbanjedi only played the reserves squad because he knew Plutt was coming...

I think we have a time paradox, folks.

In a all seriousness though, that sounds like an awesome tournament! Thanks for all the squad details everyone, I'm gonna have to try some of those out myself.
urbanjedi
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 7:08:46 AM
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jak wrote:
wow! what was some of this awesome prize support, I hear so much about?Woot



SOOOOUUUUUUPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!
atmsalad
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 7:12:58 AM
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Joined: 7/26/2011
Posts: 946
My first game against Jason I would have still lossed if it weren't for the fact that he only got reserves once in the 1st three rounds and twice in our 5 round match I do believe.

If you think you'd rather play against this then some other squads I don't think you really understand what it can do. Our champs match was a clown stomping. He got reserves the first 3 rounds... So at that point it was my 200 point squad against his 380 point squad because each round he could bring in 60 points worth.

Yes this game is heavily luck based and we all try to reduce that luck any way we can to increase our odds. However, playing a game where the whole game depends on what your opponent can roll for init is not enjoyable. When your opponent can get 60 points taylored to beat your squad and it starts in gambit... That is not fun, lol.

I my opinion, getting both sources of reserves from two separate characters is to much. That's a big reason daala had reserves removed, matching up with ozzel is to rediculous, but don't get side tracked on that comment.

Anywho, it was a great regional, thank you caedus for organizing and congratulations to Jason!!!! Coming in 2nd to you is perfectly fine in my book :)
Caedus
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 7:50:02 AM
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jak wrote:
wow! what was some of this awesome prize support, I hear so much about?Woot


Not sure what everyone else saw, but I got some kick-A$$ soup. Drool
General_Grievous
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 8:15:49 AM
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Joined: 1/8/2010
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Gizmotronx wrote:
So what ARE some good counters to reserves? Never played against them because our group finds it... disturbing.


V-set 14 has Unkar Plutt, which will hurt Reserves squads considerably. As Jason said, it's why he played them now - because they probably won't have any chance at all in 3 months. Unkar can turn off all init control and also negate 2 of Pong/Kazdan's Reserves numbers. Brings Reserves chances down to 15% from 70+%.



Ugh I feel like I'm not going to like Unkar at all... why so much reserves hate when they generally suck and with the exception of this Republic all are tier 2 or worse.
juice man
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 8:20:53 AM
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Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
Caedus wrote:
jak wrote:
wow! what was some of this awesome prize support, I hear so much about?Woot


Not sure what everyone else saw, but I got some kick-A$$ soup. Drool
I forgot the soup on my pick. Crying
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 8:46:05 AM
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Joined: 5/31/2010
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i find it funny that this piece has been around for 7 sets and nothing has ever been said about him or the possibilities with him, and yet a piece that came out the set before it dominated the game for awhile, was complained about got changed because people didn't like it, but it still plays well enough to come in second is ok and not deserving of complaints.

whats even funnier is that he felt he had to play it now before a hard counter came out for it.... why are we making hard counters for something that has not had a single complaint or anything and has existed for years?

I guess i'll go the old route of mace windu talk to me when it wins gencon or dominates an entire season like daala
urbanjedi
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 9:29:11 AM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
i find it funny that this piece has been around for 7 sets and nothing has ever been said about him or the possibilities with him, and yet a piece that came out the set before it dominated the game for awhile, was complained about got changed because people didn't like it, but it still plays well enough to come in second is ok and not deserving of complaints.

whats even funnier is that he felt he had to play it now before a hard counter came out for it.... why are we making hard counters for something that has not had a single complaint or anything and has existed for years?

I guess i'll go the old route of mace windu talk to me when it wins gencon or dominates an entire season like daala


Because there is a huge difference between a squad winning a single tournament (with plenty of close games), and a squad dominating multiple tournaments to the point that it only loses to someone else playing the same (or similar) squad, even if it's natural enemy squad is present. Same holds true of the Commando Droid Officer as originally printed.


Also, Unkar isn't a hard counter at all. He is a very good soft counter, to not only Reserves, but also init control in general (master tac, tac, recon, tactics broker, etc)
urbanjedi
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 9:30:08 AM
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juice man wrote:
Caedus wrote:
jak wrote:
wow! what was some of this awesome prize support, I hear so much about?Woot


Not sure what everyone else saw, but I got some kick-A$$ soup. Drool
I forgot the soup on my pick. Crying


At least you live close enough that if Jak "practices" making soup again, he might invite you over to check and make sure it wasn't poisoned or something before he gave it out at a tournament for a prize ThumpUp
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 9:34:31 AM
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urbanjedi wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
i find it funny that this piece has been around for 7 sets and nothing has ever been said about him or the possibilities with him, and yet a piece that came out the set before it dominated the game for awhile, was complained about got changed because people didn't like it, but it still plays well enough to come in second is ok and not deserving of complaints.

whats even funnier is that he felt he had to play it now before a hard counter came out for it.... why are we making hard counters for something that has not had a single complaint or anything and has existed for years?

I guess i'll go the old route of mace windu talk to me when it wins gencon or dominates an entire season like daala


Because there is a huge difference between a squad winning a single tournament (with plenty of close games), and a squad dominating multiple tournaments to the point that it only loses to someone else playing the same (or similar) squad, even if it's natural enemy squad is present. Same holds true of the Commando Droid Officer as originally printed.


Also, Unkar isn't a hard counter at all. He is a very good soft counter, to not only Reserves, but also init control in general (master tac, tac, recon, tactics broker, etc)



what I am saying is the possibility for this has existed for 7 sets anyone could have run this. it didn't suddenly become a problem, it won 1 tournament and now some people are rage quitting games and saying things like...I for one will not waste my time playing against it.---- Tim B.

heck we had to fight and claw to get the changes to the other pieces and had to witness them dominate over and over and over... this wins once and hell freezes over and like I said its been around 7 SETS I'm just pulling what has been pulled countless times, lets see it dominate and then lets rage quit and break things.
urbanjedi
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 9:35:05 AM
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DarkDracul wrote:


(it wasn't because I didn't play Eryl Flapper )



Are you sure? Wink
urbanjedi
Posted: Monday, July 17, 2017 9:54:58 AM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:


what I am saying is the possibility for this has existed for 7 sets anyone could have run this. it didn't suddenly become a problem, it won 1 tournament and now some people are rage quitting games



No reason to pick on Tim here. There is nothing wrong with conceding a game that you don't think you can win, that you aren't going to have fun playing. In fact, I respect the heck out of it. I know that in all the tournaments I have been to, it happens from time to time, and there is NOTHING wrong with it. It is certainly better than aggravating the heck out of yourself for a half hour while you know your opponent is just going to wipe you out any second.
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