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The Last Jedi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Options
jen'ari
Posted: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 6:57:38 PM
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cassekiel wrote:


However, I have a problem with Luke getting to the point he was at in this film. I actually think it was probably Lucas' intention to have him in exile. But I don't think with the help of Yoda, and Obi, and even Anakin and Qui as force spirits that he would have reached the point that he did. Certainly they would have eventually honored his free will but it is just hard for me to believe.



You see I dont have an issue with Luke at all.
I have heard people (deaths_Baine) say that they dont think Luke would ever think about killing Ben.
Their proof is that he looked for the good in Vader....

Well actually he didn't... He saw the good in Vader through the force. It showed him the conflict. he "sensed" the good in him.
So it was easy to bank on him having a chance to turn the good was staring him in the face.

When he looked into Rey all he saw was darkness. There was no light or good or conflict.
He saw murder and suffering.
So of course he could not bank on good, he saw none.

but onto your point.
I don't necessarily like seeing Luke like that, but i think that is one of the points. It is supposed to be painful to see Luke like that, which made his making peace with the force all the more pleasurable ad it made Rey that much more important.
In a sense she saved Luke, which is awesome in its own right.

But I do heavily look forward to seeing Luke in his Grandmaster Luke days where he is master of the Jedi Order and to see what awesome foes they have him and the jedi face.
cassekiel
Posted: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 7:44:53 PM
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jen'ari wrote:
cassekiel wrote:


However, I have a problem with Luke getting to the point he was at in this film. I actually think it was probably Lucas' intention to have him in exile. But I don't think with the help of Yoda, and Obi, and even Anakin and Qui as force spirits that he would have reached the point that he did. Certainly they would have eventually honored his free will but it is just hard for me to believe.



You see I dont have an issue with Luke at all.
I have heard people (deaths_Baine) say that they dont think Luke would ever think about killing Ben.
Their proof is that he looked for the good in Vader....

Well actually he didn't... He saw the good in Vader through the force. It showed him the conflict. he "sensed" the good in him.
So it was easy to bank on him having a chance to turn the good was staring him in the face.

When he looked into Rey all he saw was darkness. There was no light or good or conflict.
He saw murder and suffering.
So of course he could not bank on good, he saw none.

but onto your point.
I don't necessarily like seeing Luke like that, but i think that is one of the points. It is supposed to be painful to see Luke like that, which made his making peace with the force all the more pleasurable ad it made Rey that much more important.
In a sense she saved Luke, which is awesome in its own right.

But I do heavily look forward to seeing Luke in his Grandmaster Luke days where he is master of the Jedi Order and to see what awesome foes they have him and the jedi face.



Right, it actually adds up for me that he saw good in his father and tried to save him and the inverse with Kylo Ren. I don't really have a problem with a "moment of weakness." All Jedi had flaws. I just don't think he would have become the disconnected curmudgeon that he was completely giving up like that. In my mind I would see him in exhile, certainly with doubts, but meditating and convening with Yoda and Obi about how things went wrong. Maybe that idea wouldn't have made as interesting of a film. Just didn't work for me.
jen'ari
Posted: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 7:57:56 PM
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cassekiel wrote:



Right, it actually adds up for me that he saw good in his father and tried to save him and the inverse with Kylo Ren. I don't really have a problem with a "moment of weakness." All Jedi had flaws. I just don't think he would have become the disconnected curmudgeon that he was completely giving up like that. In my mind I would see him in exhile, certainly with doubts, but meditating and convening with Yoda and Obi about how things went wrong. Maybe that idea wouldn't have made as interesting of a film. Just didn't work for me.


for the record, I see that as already happened. But Luke could not find peace so he completely shut himself off from the force. I think if you go back a few years that is the Luke you were looking for. It took Rey to bring peace to him.

He went to the Jedi temple for a reason but found no answer is how I look at it. and having force spirits help out. Yoda is a wise old dude, he even saw Palpatine's betrayal and the terrible evils that would happen before balance would be brought back. Who is to say he didn't see it again and only step in when needed? Luke looked a tad surprised to see the guy, probably hasn't seen him in a hot minute.
cassekiel
Posted: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 8:23:27 PM
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jen'ari wrote:
cassekiel wrote:



Right, it actually adds up for me that he saw good in his father and tried to save him and the inverse with Kylo Ren. I don't really have a problem with a "moment of weakness." All Jedi had flaws. I just don't think he would have become the disconnected curmudgeon that he was completely giving up like that. In my mind I would see him in exhile, certainly with doubts, but meditating and convening with Yoda and Obi about how things went wrong. Maybe that idea wouldn't have made as interesting of a film. Just didn't work for me.


for the record, I see that as already happened. But Luke could not find peace so he completely shut himself off from the force. I think if you go back a few years that is the Luke you were looking for. It took Rey to bring peace to him.

He went to the Jedi temple for a reason but found no answer is how I look at it. and having force spirits help out. Yoda is a wise old dude, he even saw Palpatine's betrayal and the terrible evils that would happen before balance would be brought back. Who is to say he didn't see it again and only step in when needed? Luke looked a tad surprised to see the guy, probably hasn't seen him in a hot minute.


That is a fair argument. Luke never really had all of the Jedi training either so I could see that
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 8:54:40 PM
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I kind of like that there are now two "apprentices" who are the top Jedi in galaxy. Neither one has reached the Master level. There's always the tendency that things have to get bigger and better. (See the stupid Starkiller Base vs Death Star comparison.) In episode IX, Rey and Kylo should somehow demonstrate that they aren't at the level of Mace, Palpatine, Snoke, Luke. But of course JJ is the one directing episode IX and he put in the stupid Starkiller Base vs Death Star comparison in episode 7, so we'll probably see Rey pull a Death Star out of orbit using the Force in the next episode.
surf_rider56
Posted: Friday, December 22, 2017 11:58:18 AM
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Thoughts on the movie; a week later, if you still need a spoiler alert ... seriously?

Rey's parents are nobodies. Ok, or just a little lie to be followed up on later?

Canto Bight. The book was dull and frankly the movie bit was nothing more than farce and unnecessary. It would've been more fun to bump into DJ in Maz Kanata's new/rebuilt place. Good excuse to actually see Maz in person too ... and did DJ actually escape that mess at the end?

Boy, the "Resistance" has gone to heck in a hand basket. In ROTJ, the Alliance fleet could almost go toe to toe with the Empire. By the end of the Last Jedi, what was left? Not even enough to make the Falcon look crowded. .... and it bothered me that the Resistance decimation was so thorough. Five Bombers was the whole Bomber command? Maybe 2 squadrons of X-Wings? The "Fleet" was a Mon Cal cruiser, the Medical frigate and a Blockade Runner? It particularly bothered me that they were picking off each transport with just one shot each, no evasive maneuvers? Maybe 200 men to man the trenches, all apparently dying? All those possible unique characters just shot up?

... and so much for help ... even with her personal code, Leia couldn't get anybody to help?? Seriously???

.... and where are the Knights of Ren? They're not Snoke's Praetorian Guard. I will admit I like the whole Throne room scene, Rey's defiance, Ren's sneaky-ness, Snoke's evil (I still think he died a little Too easily) the Rey/Ren unification and Rey's struggle with Ren in the end .....

Of course, now we have a problem. Luke will spend more time as a Force Spirit next movie; and how to kill Leia without having Leia killed on screen ... someone said they'd have to fast forward a few years to get to the next movie. I don't see how they Can't. Easier to explain/gloss over holes with time.
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, December 22, 2017 1:01:55 PM
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^^ I dont know how much Luke we will see tbh.
I truly think that half of the things characters said in the movie were directed to the fans.

"Let the past die"

yep, definitely directed at fans that want to hold onto Luke, Han, and Leia.

Even the whole "your nothing, you are not part of this story" makes fun of the idea that people are really really wanting Rey to be a Skywalker, Solo, the force baby, heck I even saw a Palpatine theory.

Almost making us confront our own "wishlist" and saying "move on" "or better yet "kill it if you have to"

but I am hearing from everywhere that Luke would never do that.

It makes me think of all the "Not my president" protesters....
not my skywalker, not my skywalker

haha
but seriously, I loved that Luke still had something to learn later realized when he told leia "No one is beyond saving" or whatever he said exactly.
juice man
Posted: Saturday, December 30, 2017 5:32:57 PM
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Saw Last Jedi.

Based on Force Awakens I expected a turd sandwhich.

Was pleasantly surprised at the movie. Thumbs up.
Lord_Ball
Posted: Tuesday, January 2, 2018 5:57:25 AM
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Huge disappointment for me.

First off no one says they have a bad feeling... OK so allegedly BB-8 says it, but that is just friggin stupid.... In fact pretty much all the scenes with BB-8 were so ridiculous it totally pulled me out of the movie.

His head is dome shaped, there is no way jabbing his head into the X-wing's weapon system short circuit issue would have a greater effect than the probes he was using previously. If he was more like BB-9e and had a flat top I'd let the suspension of disbelief win over.

Then the walker scene was insanely absurd too, what was the walker canopy made out of paper machete?

And then you have the conflicting character type of Phasma, is she a talented fighter, as portrayed in her book, or is the training regimen for the maintenance crew really that much more superior to the military? It really is disappointing that a character with so much promise has been ruined in so many ways, they can't even redeem her at this point with out it being ridiculous.

A can you hear me now joke? All that did was highlight the ineptitude of the first order for me.

Also D'qar is a major Resistance base should the ships not have been completely full of fuel? I fail to believe that the First order ships have so much greater fuel efficiency that they can first jump to the planet, then, jump and follow them and still have Fuel supplies in their ships that exceed the Resistence 20 fold.

Last but certainly not least, who leaves a map to find them if they absolutely do not want to be found at all?

It's so disjointed from making any kind of sense. That's not even counting all the issues with Canto Bight.

Oh and there is no way Rey's Parents are nobodies, Ben would have no way of knowing who they were. He sensed her desire for parents and played off that.


With JJ Abrams back helming Episode 9, I'm calling it that Leia death is going to be from her using the force to send the heroes back in time to stop the first order, perhaps somehow using Starkiller base against them instead of the New Republic (I hope I'm am so wrong in that, but it wouldn't surprise me at this point).
Naarkon
Posted: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 9:47:11 AM
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I was both incredibly impressed and super disappointed with the movie. The good moments of the movie are freaking amazing. The throne room scene and Kylo fighting Luke's projection and the whole training sequence and Leia using the force were super cool, some of the best Star Wars moments.

...

Captain Phasma and rescuing the horses while sticking it to the man and BB-8 and the Resistance fleet and the First Order literally watching the Resistance escape in the opening of the film and the stupid makes-no-sense bombers and the admiral in a dress (forget the name) not telling anyone her super simple plan and the Imperials just not noticing ships coming and going from the ship they were tracking were just stupid. I'm fine with some plot inconsistencies but when they start to pile up like that it takes me out of the movie and makes me think about how dumb some of it is.

I liked a lot of the humor in the movie, but some did feel a bit forced, like they had to meet a quota.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but saying "they tracked us through lightspeed" makes no Star Wars sense. A hyperdrive is used to go into and through hyperspace, right? Han mentions the Falcon going point five past lightspeed, so lightspeed is a thing, but not something you track someone through. You could say "they tracked us through hyperspace" or "they tracked us even though we went past lightspeed."
shmi15
Posted: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 9:54:08 AM
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Naarkon wrote:
I was both incredibly impressed and super disappointed with the movie. The good moments of the movie are freaking amazing. The throne room scene and Kylo fighting Luke's projection and the whole training sequence and Leia using the force were super cool, some of the best Star Wars moments.

...

Captain Phasma and rescuing the horses while sticking it to the man and BB-8 and the Resistance fleet and the First Order literally watching the Resistance escape in the opening of the film and the stupid makes-no-sense bombers and the admiral in a dress (forget the name) not telling anyone her super simple plan and the Imperials just not noticing ships coming and going from the ship they were tracking were just stupid. I'm fine with some plot inconsistencies but when they start to pile up like that it takes me out of the movie and makes me think about how dumb some of it is.

I liked a lot of the humor in the movie, but some did feel a bit forced, like they had to meet a quota.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but saying "they tracked us through lightspeed" makes no Star Wars sense. A hyperdrive is used to go into and through hyperspace, right? Han mentions the Falcon going point five past lightspeed, so lightspeed is a thing, but not something you track someone through. You could say "they tracked us through hyperspace" or "they tracked us even though we went past lightspeed."




Just wnt to point out, the moment Poe Dameron found out about her simple, silly plan.... He told Finn and Rose, who happened to be with DJ, who happened to get caught with them and he used that information to not only save himself, but also allowed The First Order to pick off a few more ships in the process. So while it does look simple and silly, it ended being one of the biggest mistakes of the movie, him finding the information out. The whole point was it was a secret Rebel base, no one was suppose to know anything, so no transmissions went out. Maybe I'm stretching? But that s my interpretation of it all!
CorellianComedian
Posted: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 10:44:43 AM
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shmi15 wrote:
Just wnt to point out, the moment Poe Dameron found out about her simple, silly plan.... He told Finn and Rose, who happened to be with DJ, who happened to get caught with them and he used that information to not only save himself, but also allowed The First Order to pick off a few more ships in the process. So while it does look simple and silly, it ended being one of the biggest mistakes of the movie, him finding the information out. The whole point was it was a secret Rebel base, no one was suppose to know anything, so no transmissions went out. Maybe I'm stretching? But that s my interpretation of it all!


Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure Poe finds out Holdo is fueling the transports, assumes she was going to have the Resistance flee in the them, and tells Rose and Finn that she's fueling the transports to make a run for it. LATER ON (I'm pretty sure), Leia comes out of her coma, and reveals to Poe Holdo's plan to escape to the Rebel base. So Poe didn't know the good plan, he just knew the transports were making a break for it into deep space.

Also, I saw a YouTube video recently that made an interesting point. Remember at the beginning, when Poe orders a bombing run to destroy that massive dreadnought, but the bomber/fighter squadrons are almost completely decimated? Apparently the fighters (and small frigate) destroyed in that battle were all under Holdo's command.

I wish that was mentioned in the movie! It makes it way more plausible that Holdo wouldn't tell Poe her plan, because just a half-hour earlier he lead a disastrous mission that killed many of her most loyal soldiers.
Naarkon
Posted: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 11:37:26 AM
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CorellianComedian wrote:
shmi15 wrote:
Just wnt to point out, the moment Poe Dameron found out about her simple, silly plan.... He told Finn and Rose, who happened to be with DJ, who happened to get caught with them and he used that information to not only save himself, but also allowed The First Order to pick off a few more ships in the process. So while it does look simple and silly, it ended being one of the biggest mistakes of the movie, him finding the information out. The whole point was it was a secret Rebel base, no one was suppose to know anything, so no transmissions went out. Maybe I'm stretching? But that s my interpretation of it all!


Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure Poe finds out Holdo is fueling the transports, assumes she was going to have the Resistance flee in the them, and tells Rose and Finn that she's fueling the transports to make a run for it. LATER ON (I'm pretty sure), Leia comes out of her coma, and reveals to Poe Holdo's plan to escape to the Rebel base. So Poe didn't know the good plan, he just knew the transports were making a break for it into deep space.

Also, I saw a YouTube video recently that made an interesting point. Remember at the beginning, when Poe orders a bombing run to destroy that massive dreadnought, but the bomber/fighter squadrons are almost completely decimated? Apparently the fighters (and small frigate) destroyed in that battle were all under Holdo's command.

I wish that was mentioned in the movie! It makes it way more plausible that Holdo wouldn't tell Poe her plan, because just a half-hour earlier he lead a disastrous mission that killed many of her most loyal soldiers.


See, these explanations make a lot of sense, but why does the movie not even seem to realize how weird of a situation it creates? How did this lady become an admiral without learning basically the most important aspect of leadership, communication? So much would have been avoided if she was like “we have a plan to send for help and delay” instead of “...”
shmi15
Posted: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 3:33:20 PM
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Naarkon wrote:
CorellianComedian wrote:
shmi15 wrote:
Just wnt to point out, the moment Poe Dameron found out about her simple, silly plan.... He told Finn and Rose, who happened to be with DJ, who happened to get caught with them and he used that information to not only save himself, but also allowed The First Order to pick off a few more ships in the process. So while it does look simple and silly, it ended being one of the biggest mistakes of the movie, him finding the information out. The whole point was it was a secret Rebel base, no one was suppose to know anything, so no transmissions went out. Maybe I'm stretching? But that s my interpretation of it all!


Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure Poe finds out Holdo is fueling the transports, assumes she was going to have the Resistance flee in the them, and tells Rose and Finn that she's fueling the transports to make a run for it. LATER ON (I'm pretty sure), Leia comes out of her coma, and reveals to Poe Holdo's plan to escape to the Rebel base. So Poe didn't know the good plan, he just knew the transports were making a break for it into deep space.

Also, I saw a YouTube video recently that made an interesting point. Remember at the beginning, when Poe orders a bombing run to destroy that massive dreadnought, but the bomber/fighter squadrons are almost completely decimated? Apparently the fighters (and small frigate) destroyed in that battle were all under Holdo's command.

I wish that was mentioned in the movie! It makes it way more plausible that Holdo wouldn't tell Poe her plan, because just a half-hour earlier he lead a disastrous mission that killed many of her most loyal soldiers.


See, these explanations make a lot of sense, but why does the movie not even seem to realize how weird of a situation it creates? How did this lady become an admiral without learning basically the most important aspect of leadership, communication? So much would have been avoided if she was like “we have a plan to send for help and delay” instead of “...”





Yes, Poe found out she was fueling the transports and "abandoning ship" I guess I just assumed since NO ONE in the Resistance knew about the Rebel base hidden on Crait, that it was a need to know bases. I didn't know Vice-Admiral was in charge of the bombing fleets... Thats a pretty neat back story ( isn't that what we all love?) and does make more sense as to why she would not tell Poe the plan. She does call him "flyboy" and talks down to him immediately so it DOES make sense... regardless if it did to us or not, lol
lifelike
Posted: Thursday, January 4, 2018 2:52:31 AM
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I loved the movie. I think together with Rogue One and episodes 4-5 and 7 it makes up almost all of Star Wars that now matters to me. After that I would probably pick Rebels over any of the other stuff (although a lot of people on the internet claims that Clone Wars gets good after you manage to get through the first season or two?). Old non-canon Thrawn were great as well (guess I should read the new one).

Consider myself a Star Wars fan. But it seems like people mean that in different ways. I saw the first two movies a million times as a kid (as I had them taped). I read some of the comics (published in the US ca 1980, here in the late 80's). That was Star Wars to me. The pulpy adventures. Luke was a guy, his father had been some kind of knight that was trained in using the force and lightsaber but was killed by Vader (many fans even refused to believe Vader was telling the truth in ESB until ROTJ came out, not that the fact was very important to me). Ben Kenobi was the mentor/Gandalf that helped out with some force/magic. The force was no big deal. It was about adventure and cool spaceships and lasers. Playing with the toys, making up stories, playing games set in that universe. And the universe was HUGE and open-ended. It was not very well defined at all. There could be other empires, other rebels, other forces. In the comics there often were.

Then with some EU and prequels the universe started shrinking. The main protagonists and antagonists turned out to be related, and the center of the universe. Lots of spiritualistic weird force/jedi/sith nonsense that I could not care much less about.

I feel like Star Wars is much closer to the roots now. There is force-stuff in TLJ, but it is not that central to the story now. It feels much more like ANH or ESB. It is cool magic. If Rey is indeed a nobody that makes it even better. Although not quite as good as in ANH when it seemed more like the force was something anyone could learn to use (just go to magic school, become a magic-user to help your fellow adventurers). But above all there is adventure again. And the world feels a lot bigger and less well-explained. There is room again for fans to play games and tell their own stories.

The EU was never canon anyway, so there really is nothing to miss. As I mentioned I really liked Thrawn. Enjoyed other bits as well. But it was always understood that Lucasfilm was not in any way bound to follow the EU. Already ESB contradicted non-canon Star Wars works. ROTJ even more, and of course the prequels contradicted several things that was established in Thrawn (background-stories about clone wars and old jedi). Disney did not remove anything from canon that actually was canon as far as I know (or was the Ewok movies or something else considered canon by Lucasfilm pre-Disney?).
Lord_Ball
Posted: Thursday, March 1, 2018 7:16:20 AM
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Lord_Ball wrote:
With JJ Abrams back helming Episode 9, I'm calling it that Leia death is going to be from her using the force to send the heroes back in time to stop the first order, perhaps somehow using Starkiller base against them instead of the New Republic (I hope I'm am so wrong in that, but it wouldn't surprise me at this point).


With my best Darth vader impression: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
juice man
Posted: Thursday, March 1, 2018 7:24:47 AM
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Lord_Ball wrote:
Lord_Ball wrote:
With JJ Abrams back helming Episode 9, I'm calling it that Leia death is going to be from her using the force to send the heroes back in time to stop the first order, perhaps somehow using Starkiller base against them instead of the New Republic (I hope I'm am so wrong in that, but it wouldn't surprise me at this point).


With my best Darth vader impression: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Don't forget the overused lens flare. Leia might get blinded and send them back to first Death Star. (or even jump stories and end up on the Enterprise)
CorellianComedian
Posted: Thursday, March 1, 2018 7:58:10 AM
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juice man wrote:
Lord_Ball wrote:
Lord_Ball wrote:
With JJ Abrams back helming Episode 9, I'm calling it that Leia death is going to be from her using the force to send the heroes back in time to stop the first order, perhaps somehow using Starkiller base against them instead of the New Republic (I hope I'm am so wrong in that, but it wouldn't surprise me at this point).


With my best Darth vader impression: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Don't forget the overused lens flare. Leia might get blinded and send them back to first Death Star. (or even jump stories and end up on the Enterprise)


Or cross into the Legends continuity, to bring Jaina, Jacen, and Kyle Katarn back to help stop the First Order?
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