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CorellianComedian wrote:Double Agent would maybe be a good idea, then...? She'd still be over-the-top, but if Fringe hasn't been running around ruining anyone's day, I don't see a problem with Talon/Morrigan being a solid core for all-fringe squads. I imagine double agent would make her a whole lot better? It would mean you wouldn't have to spend 11 points on Ozzel, wouldn't have the disadvantage of having to move 1 per turn. Tempo control is often better than double agent, but Thrawn squads naturally have a lot of fodder, and with double agent they'd out-activate most things anyway. She'd also be ubiquitous in Fringe and would probably see more play in factions like Sith that want tempo counters.
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Dr Daman wrote:Suppressive Fire
Replaces Attacks: Make an attack at 10 damage ( this damage can not be increased). If this attack hits, the enemy character attacked by this character cannot use special abilities that respond to this character's attack for the rest of the turn and enemies hit by this character's attack cannot benefit from or grant commander effects for the rest of the round.
Disrupts CE's but with minimal damage and now Jedi can use their Force Powers to respond. Thematic as a sprayed suppressive shot should cause disarray (CE disruption) yet Jedi should still be able to stand up to it as they do in the movies and TV series. Can't use evade etc as its harder to dodge a random burst of gun fire. Dr Daman wrote:I agree something needs to change, and I believe that something is act control. It's what makes my Thrawn swap squad work, yet I still want to see it gone. I play that squad because I'm very competitive and I know how to play it extremely well to win. I am VERY good with it. But it's got to change. It's not fun to win by destroying your opponent and it's much much worse to lose that way.
I've never been in favour of changing WoTC pieces, but I think it might be time to adjust the act control ones. Making them require line-of-sight is the best way IMO to do this. High risk (putting you piece in a vulnerable place), high reward (getting to move and shoot with your pieces with impunity). I reckon we should seriously look into Dr. Daman's changes.
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I'd favour just taking Suppressive Fire off of Morrigan. The other two Suppressive Fire pieces aren't an issue, and Morrigan's a good piece anyway with an in-built movement breaker (Charging Fire + Agile) and evade. Also involves just changing one card, not three.
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Ooo! Hi-5 that!
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kezzamachine wrote:Dr Daman wrote:Suppressive Fire
Replaces Attacks: Make an attack at 10 damage ( this damage can not be increased). If this attack hits, the enemy character attacked by this character cannot use special abilities that respond to this character's attack for the rest of the turn and enemies hit by this character's attack cannot benefit from or grant commander effects for the rest of the round.
Disrupts CE's but with minimal damage and now Jedi can use their Force Powers to respond. Thematic as a sprayed suppressive shot should cause disarray (CE disruption) yet Jedi should still be able to stand up to it as they do in the movies and TV series. Can't use evade etc as its harder to dodge a random burst of gun fire. Dr Daman wrote:I agree something needs to change, and I believe that something is act control. It's what makes my Thrawn swap squad work, yet I still want to see it gone. I play that squad because I'm very competitive and I know how to play it extremely well to win. I am VERY good with it. But it's got to change. It's not fun to win by destroying your opponent and it's much much worse to lose that way.
I've never been in favour of changing WoTC pieces, but I think it might be time to adjust the act control ones. Making them require line-of-sight is the best way IMO to do this. High risk (putting you piece in a vulnerable place), high reward (getting to move and shoot with your pieces with impunity). I reckon we should seriously look into Dr. Daman's changes. Balance committee, please listen to one of best SWM's players, in the world in Dr Daman, in regards to activation control. This is where 100% full concentration should be at, in balancing our game. Please do so before we lose anymore core players, or any prospects getting into the game, due to npe's from this really unbalanced commander effect!
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TheHutts wrote:I'd favour just taking Suppressive Fire off of Morrigan. The other two Suppressive Fire pieces aren't an issue, and Morrigan's a good piece anyway with an in-built movement breaker (Charging Fire + Agile) and evade. Also involves just changing one card, not three. Adding a built-in movement breaker, to an already elite movement breaker in swap (Thrawn), really makes her an op piece ( charging fire and swap ). This is ridiculous, and really puts most of the other factions at huge disadvantages! If you take anything off her card, please take charging fire off!
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I realize I'm really late to the party here, but I've just read through this thread since I was curious how the game is going.
Here is my suggestion:
Whether it goes in the Glossary or Floor Rules or whatever is not my concern (I'll let the rules experts deal with that): "Characters whose name contains Ugnaught or Mouse gain Black Ops."
There. End of story. Solves the Tempo Control nonsense because these pieces are ubiquitous. If someone wants to bring Tempo Control in the off chance that they can kill all of their opponent's fodder soon enough for it to matter, then more power to them.
And yeah, I've always hated the tank-busting pieces, so I'd like to see Morrigan's Suppressive Fire dealt with.
However, that's not even close to Tempo Control. Tempo Control is so huge that it would probably be wisest just to deal with it and then see how things shake out, before attempting adjustments for anything else.
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thereisnotry wrote:I realize I'm really late to the party here, but I've just read through this thread since I was curious how the game is going.
Here is my suggestion:
Whether it goes in the Glossary or Floor Rules or whatever is not my concern (I'll let the rules experts deal with that): "Characters whose name contains Ugnaught or Mouse gain Black Ops."
There. End of story. Solves the Tempo Control nonsense because these pieces are ubiquitous. If someone wants to bring Tempo Control in the off chance that they can kill all of their opponent's fodder soon enough for it to matter, then more power to them.
And yeah, I've always hated the tank-busting pieces, so I'd like to see Morrigan's Suppressive Fire dealt with.
However, that's not even close to Tempo Control. Tempo Control is so huge that it would probably be wisest just to deal with it and then see how things shake out, before attempting adjustments for anything else. That just takes all tempo control out of the game- Krayt, Quorreal, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Mando Tactician, etc all become pretty much unplayable. I think the point is to address the problem guys- Ozzel, Dodonna, San- and only them.
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In reality^^^ who cares if all act control is gone?
I don't like it because black ops doesn't fit an uggie. I would much rather make a 5-8 point piece it fits and maybe give it pathfinder or some other ability that can help.
Counter Intelligence Agent cost 8
Black Sun
Black Ops
Pathfinder
But even then i think a rules change or ban is better.
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I care if act control is gone. It has a place in our game, and there's lots of squads that will be hurt competitively if it's wiped out of our game entirely.
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gandalfthegreatestwizard wrote:I care if act control is gone. It has a place in our game, and there's lots of squads that will be hurt competitively if it's wiped out of our game entirely. Would it hurt more squads if it was banned? Or would it HELP more squads if it were banned? Honest question
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shmi15 wrote:gandalfthegreatestwizard wrote:I care if act control is gone. It has a place in our game, and there's lots of squads that will be hurt competitively if it's wiped out of our game entirely. Would it hurt more squads if it was banned? Or would it HELP more squads if it were banned? Honest question What squads would banning all act control help? It would hurt the vast majority of Rebel and New Republic squads, which rely on Dodonna. It would hurt some Mandalorian, Imperial, Separatist and Yuuzhan Vong squads.
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gandalfthegreatestwizard wrote:shmi15 wrote:gandalfthegreatestwizard wrote:I care if act control is gone. It has a place in our game, and there's lots of squads that will be hurt competitively if it's wiped out of our game entirely. Would it hurt more squads if it was banned? Or would it HELP more squads if it were banned? Honest question What squads would banning all act control help? It would hurt the vast majority of Rebel and New Republic squads, which rely on Dodonna. It would hurt some Mandalorian, Imperial, Separatist and Yuuzhan Vong squads. The vast majority? Or only the ones that are currently competitive because act control exists? Not a single Mandalorian squad would be in danger. They would all improve because you don't have to waste any points on Black Ops. Seps have PLENTY of non act control squads, no one plays them because... Act Control exists... Imps have Vader of Lothal and Palps... Do you really think thats going to hurt the Imp faction? And YV won't have to waste stealing a CE to get act control. On top of that. Republic would improve, and the squad types inside of it would expand GREATLY. Sith would be completely competitive with MULTIPLE squad types. NR would start seeing some other squad types, that, yes, would be competitive. Fringe would improve. Old Republic might get the 2nd biggest boost, behind Sith. So banning act control helps all 9 factions. It INCREASES the amount of squads within each faction that are actually competitive, and would completely revitalize the game and give it a fresh look. What does banning act control hurt.... Out act and Smash Squads. Nothing else. So... Yea.
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shmi15 wrote:The vast majority? Or only the ones that are currently competitive because act control exists?
Not a single Mandalorian squad would be in danger. They would all improve because you don't have to waste any points on Black Ops.
Seps have PLENTY of non act control squads, no one plays them because... Act Control exists... Imps have Vader of Lothal and Palps... Do you really think thats going to hurt the Imp faction? And YV won't have to waste stealing a CE to get act control.
On top of that. Republic would improve, and the squad types inside of it would expand GREATLY. Sith would be completely competitive with MULTIPLE squad types. NR would start seeing some other squad types, that, yes, would be competitive. Fringe would improve. Old Republic might get the 2nd biggest boost, behind Sith.
So banning act control helps all 9 factions. It INCREASES the amount of squads within each faction that are actually competitive, and would completely revitalize the game and give it a fresh look.
What does banning act control hurt.... Out act and Smash Squads. Nothing else. So... Yea. Yes, most NR and Rebel squads use Dodonna so most of them will be less competitive. The Mandalorian Tactician is a solid option for Mandos- it was in the squad that Weeks won GenCon with in 2014. No one ever runs the Black Ops guys anyway so that won't affect anything. Yes, banning act control will hurt several Imperial squads, mainly Daala and Thrawn. Imperials do have other squad options. Vong will lose Quorreal, and he's one of their better options with his act control and reinforcements. I don't see how banning act control will automatically make Sith squads competitive. Pellaeon and Karrde would still be around as well as other bad matchups. Old Republic already has an answer to act control with Bastila, so this won't help them that much. I can see Yoda on Kybuck getting a lot better since he will outactivate more often, but outside of that Republic won't improve much. NR absolutely does not benefit, as losing Dodonna does irreparable damage to the faction.
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Absolutely false about Dodonna. NR would improve greatly without him. So many great squad types that you can't run for fear of the out act in smash. And yes, Sith would 100% be competitive. Sure Talon/Palleon are a good defense against them, but there is nothing wrong with a bad matchup. But an auto loss is why people leave the game.
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What are some of the NR squads?
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gandalfthegreatestwizard wrote:What are some of the NR squads? Resistance squads instantly become playable. Luke GH squads. 100 point Luke squads. Multiple Han squads. Squads with 12-15acts become playable
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shmi15 wrote:Resistance squads instantly become playable. Luke GH squads. 100 point Luke squads. Multiple Han squads. Squads with 12-15acts become playable With the exception of Resistance, all of those squads are just as outactivated as they were before, because they all have access to Dodonna. All your opponent has to do is play a 22 activation squad which can bring in 7 more with Lobot. Seriously... how is a squad with 100pt Luke ever not going to be outactivated? And because those squads had Dodonna before act control was banned, they could outactivate other squads without activation control... but now they can't.
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Without Ozzel, Thrawn squads can still get up to about 25 activations. It’s not like Sith will be any better off in the activation game.
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I mean, sure, any squad can get up to 30 activations if you wanted to? Its not that hard in any faction to do that. The problem is... Some squads have act control. So when 1 squad has 30 acts, and no act control, and the other has 30 acts WITH act control... who is in command? Its a no brainer.
And, with no act control the PORG is what I would put in just about every squad that I ran with less than 15 acts. Because I know some jabroni will try and run a squad with 30 acts or whatever. But, if your wasting points on Uggies and mice to get to 30 acts, your gonna be missing something else in your squad, whether its 2 less attackers or whatever.
And if your response is going to be "But But Lobot" There are answers for Lobot that are competitive.
Act control is, and always has been a crutch for mediocre players to lean on to make them look better at the game than they actually are.
Take away the crutch for the weaker players, and the playing field will level off.
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