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Con Artist Options
DarthMaim
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 11:38:37 AM
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Can someone explain the rules to me about "Con Artist" as far as when it is suppressed; for example, if I have chosen an enemy commander's commander effect, what are some examples of when I can't use the effect; if I am being disrupted, by my own my disruptive piece, or my enemy's disruptive piece? What if "Advanced Battle Meditation" has been activated; does it matter which team has activated it, mine or my opponant? If the coomander is killed, I assume the commander effect is lost?

Thanks in advance for clarification........................
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 12:33:06 PM
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There is two issues:

1. An enemy effect suppresses the character with Con Artist, making them unable to benefit from CE's, even the opponents.
2. When the enemy commander is suppressed. So, if say, an ally's Advanced Battle Mediation is in effect, the enemy commander's CE is suppressed for everyone, even those with Con Artist.
UrbanShmi
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 1:31:40 PM
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Advanced Battle Meditation specifically says "enemy commander effects are suppressed." The plain meaning of "enemy commander effects," I would argue, is "Commander effects of enemy commanders." If that is the case, an opponent's ABM should not affect my character with Con Artist, because there are no "enemy commanders" involved. However, I suspect you're going to say that "enemy commander effects" actually means "commander effects benefitting enemies," wherever those effects originate.

Am I understanding correctly?
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 1:43:26 PM
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There are 2 modes of Disruptive.

When it affects the commander. And when it affects the beneficiary. Advanced Battle Meditation affects the whole board, commanders and beneficiaries a like. So, the Con Artist characters would be affected as well. And I am not going to add more to the cluster that is Con Artist by ruling on the difference between enemy and allies CEs. So, a Con Artist being affected by Advanced Battle Meditation or Disruptive will be unable to benefit from any CE's, unless they have Disciplined Leader.

Unless you want to reopen Bombad Gungan with it's interactions and abilities that say they specify attacking an enemy.
UrbanShmi
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 1:46:19 PM
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Fair enough. Thanks for the explanation.
countrydude82487
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 2:09:55 PM
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i have another question. what if the Commander that is granting the effect has disciplined leader?
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 2:29:35 PM
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Then it doesn't get suppressed.
TimmerB123
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 7:05:52 AM
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So in the quarter-final match of Rickey vs Daniel - they played it wrong?
Echo24
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 7:14:33 AM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
So in the quarter-final match of Rickey vs Daniel - they played it wrong?


Yeah, seems like it. We ruled it based on the specific wording of "enemy" CEs, which seems unambiguous to me, but I guess it isn't that simple. I don't think it changed the game significantly.
TimmerB123
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 7:32:40 AM
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Echo24 wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
So in the quarter-final match of Rickey vs Daniel - they played it wrong?


Yeah, seems like it. We ruled it based on the specific wording of "enemy" CEs, which seems unambiguous to me, but I guess it isn't that simple. I don't think it changed the game significantly.


Interactions get very complex these days. I don't know what I would have ruled were I the judge. I know when I heard about it - it just "felt" wrong. But so do many correct rulings.

Glad it wouldn't have changed things significantly
swinefeld
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 7:45:13 AM
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So, a Con Artist character does not benefit from the enemy CE while within range of either player's character with Disruptive?
FlyingArrow
Posted: Sunday, September 8, 2013 3:09:38 PM
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swinefeld wrote:
So, a Con Artist character does not benefit from the enemy CE while within range of either player's character with Disruptive?


That's not the way I read what Sithborg said. I read it that Disruptive suppresses enemy CEs for enemy characters, and the CE doesn't work if either the commander or the beneficiary is being suppressed. My Disruptive suppresses you and yours suppresses me.

So my Con Artist does not benefit from the enemy CE if...

* My ABM is on, because I've suppressed the commander.
* Your ABM is on, because you've suppressed the beneficiary.
* My Disruptive is within range of your commander, because I've suppressed the commander.
* Your Disruptive is within range of my Con Artist, because you've suppressed the beneficiary.


But it would work under these circumstances (assuming none of the above are true)...

* My Disruptive is within range of my Con Artist. I don't suppress the CE for my own character.
* Your Disruptive is within range of your commander. You don't suppress the CE for your own character.

===
Based on this ruling (if I understand it correctly), I would propose the following for a more clear glossary entry, because I can't make sense of the ruling and the glossary entry as it stands.

Current glossary entry:

Enemy commander effects have no effect (on enemies and allies alike) within 6 squares of this character.

Characters within 6 squares cannot receive the benefits (or the penalties) of enemy commander effects until they move out of range. An enemy commander within 6 squares has its commander effect suppressed until it moves out of range. (It still counts as a commander.)

A character who starts its turn outside this range and whose speed is modified by a commander effect continues to move at that speed for the rest of its turn, even if it comes within 6 squares of this character. Conversely, a character that begins its turn within range cannot have its speed modified by an enemy commander effect for the rest of its turn, even if it moves farther than 6 squares from this character.


Proposed glossary (or FAQ I guess) entry:
Within 6 squares of this character, enemies may not provide or be affected by commander effects.

Enemies within 6 squares cannot receive the benefits (or the penalties) of any commander effects until they move out of range. An enemy commander within 6 squares has its commander effect suppressed until it moves out of range. (It still counts as a commander.)

A character who starts its turn outside this range and whose speed is modified by a commander effect continues to move at that speed for the rest of its turn, even if it comes within 6 squares of this character. Conversely, a character that begins its turn within range cannot have its speed modified by an enemy commander effect for the rest of its turn, even if it moves farther than 6 squares from this character.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:35:17 PM
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Darth Jim discussed Disruptive and Con Artist/Bribery on the most recent SHNN and said that a Con Artist stealing a Bodyguard CE couldn't use it to Bodyguard Talon Karrde due to to Karrde's Disruptive. I don't think that is correct.

Sithborg's ruling and my understanding of that ruling are above.

Karrde's Disruptive and an allied Con Artist is this situation, where the CE would be in effect:
* My Disruptive is within range of my Con Artist. I don't suppress the CE for my own character.


(If I am incorrect, I welcome a correction.)
Sithborg
Posted: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:54:15 PM
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le sigh

I just noticed that I'm going to have to issue an errata. Going to have to wait until I get to V5, though, as I already am going through all the Vsets and seeing if I need to tweak anything for a more unified rules set.
CerousMutor
Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 2:52:15 AM
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Headaches.
I remember the simpler times, before the dark days, before the empire.
markedman247
Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 5:15:30 AM
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CerousMutor wrote:
Headaches.
I remember the simpler times, before the dark days, before the empire.

Before Jar-Jar
CerousMutor
Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 5:19:52 AM
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markedman247 wrote:
CerousMutor wrote:
Headaches.
I remember the simpler times, before the dark days, before the empire.

Before Jar-Jar

LOL
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:51:32 PM
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Sithborg wrote:
le sigh

I just noticed that I'm going to have to issue an errata. Going to have to wait until I get to V5, though, as I already am going through all the Vsets and seeing if I need to tweak anything for a more unified rules set.


What is the current ruling?
fingersandteeth
Posted: Friday, November 15, 2013 8:16:57 PM
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IF you have disruptive on your squad and you steal a CE with Con Artist and are sitting in your disruptive, you are disrupted.

You are subject to enemy commander effect via con artist but disruptive suppresses them.

Its the most concise way of doing it.

SignerJ
Posted: Friday, November 15, 2013 8:27:32 PM
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fingersandteeth wrote:
IF you have disruptive on your squad and you steal a CE with Con Artist and are sitting in your disruptive, you are disrupted.

You are subject to enemy commander effect via con artist but disruptive suppresses them.

Its the most concise way of doing it.



But that doesn't make much sense...

To be honest, I prefer the other way better. I thought that it was much simpler, since there are only four checks necessary, and they are universal, meaning that they apply in all CE Suppression situations.

Of course, not everything in this game makes sense (e.g., Lightsaber). I'll follow whatever ruling Sithborg puts out. (What was the ruling, anyway?)
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