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Poll Question : is darth Plagueis the new anti-GOWK?
Choice Votes Statistics
Yes 9 17.307692 %
No 43 82.692307 %

New Anti GOWK? Options
awesome
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 3:38:58 AM
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I say yes because he cant do anything about the auto 40 damage and plagueis can parry some of GOWK's hits so Plagueis would still be living in 3 turns of battle(one on one) and GOWK would be defeated.
The Madman
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 4:01:36 AM
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awesome wrote:
I say yes because he cant do anything about the auto 40 damage and plagueis can parry some of GOWK's hits so Plagueis would still be living in 3 turns of battle(one on one) and GOWK would be defeated.

can Pleagus stand up to what is usually in a GOWK squad?
Not so sure....
GeneralGrievous
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 4:15:56 AM
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Possibly SidSwap would help with those replace turn corruptions. It's deffinetly a plausable idea.
Jonnyb815
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 4:31:33 AM
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this is what mouse droids are for. He is not a counter since rex and dash can just shoot him to death. parry is nice but GOWK support is too strong.
amsnow
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 4:37:52 AM
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and who wants to play all sith all the time just cause you wanna beat gowk?
AdmiralAckbar
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 4:40:16 AM
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One on One he may have a chance but as a squad he will be shot down before he can get within 6 squares of GOWK.
saeseetiin
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 4:44:52 AM
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I agree one on one maybe but with that rep squad backing him up no way.
joelker41
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 5:21:20 AM
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I think we all need to consider what can be on a squad with Plagueis, not just what can be with GOWK.

Keep in mind neither Rex nor Dash has Accurate, meaning they have to target what you want them to essentially, even with Tow the figure gets Towed will take 40 from Plagueis then catch a beatdown from his support.

The key will be outactivating and using stealth figures. This base squad would be excellent IMO:

Plagueis 63
Dash 28
Jarael 23
TBSV 18
Holosid 11
Wicket 8
Mouse 3
2xUgos 6
10 activations

Roughly the best you can do unfortunately. Jarael will have to hit a decent amount of Evades to keep the rest of the squad alive but with Essence of Life and Renewal from Holosid Plagueis should be able to keep her alive a while.
saeseetiin
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 5:30:08 AM
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You can always use fringe with GOWK also and get ur self some accurate shot mins on the map
arrcot
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 5:33:40 AM
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saeseetiin wrote:
You can always use fringe with GOWK also and get ur self some accurate shot mins on the map


or just play sev or arc snipers with genwon
LoboStele
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 5:37:20 AM
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And unfortunately, even 10 activations isn't necessarily enough out-activate a lot of GOWK squads. Certainly not the variants that I've enjoyed running. Having the other pieces like Dash or Jarael certainly help, but good luck with either Dash or Jarael hitting GOWK consistently.

And the biggest problem with Plagueis is that he has to be within 6 of GOWK to even use Corruption. First of all, it's pretty easy to count to 12 (move 6, then range 6 for Corruption). So, it's not too tough for a good GOWK player to make sure that you are forced to move Plagueis more than 6 to be able to even get in range for Corruption. Then, you have to be able to do Corruption a minimum of 3 rounds, because the GOWK player will almost certainly succeed on his rolls whenever he activates.

It's just not something that you will be able to do consistently. You move Plagueis up, and you might get off 1 Corruption on GOWK. But then Dash comes near, and takes 4 clear shots on Plagueis, hitting probably at least 3 out 4 shots. The JWM moves up and Assaults. Plagueis likely fails at least 1 Parry, unless you have the FPs to waste on re-rolls. But it doesn't matter. If he wastes Corruption the next round on the JWM, then he's not hitting GOWK. And the JWM, with a FP to re-roll, will likely make the save for Corruption, only taking 40 total. And then Dash will once again tear Plagueis a new one, leaving him dead.

Honestly, an even better scenario would be one where Dash shoots Plagueis up, and then a Mouse Droid bases Plagueis rather than the JWM. You're forced to move to do Corruption at all!

Now, if you're lucky, you have a full HP Dash, and a full HP Jarael left, against a JWM that may be as low as 10 HP if you're lucky, and probably GOWK at somewhere between 60 and 80, and then GOWK's Dash at probably half HP or more. I can honestly tell you, that even if it was just Jarael and Dash vs an 80 HP GOWK, that GOWK would statistically win that fight almost every time. If GOWK has ANY support left, there's no chance at all.
saeseetiin
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 5:39:05 AM
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arrcot wrote:
saeseetiin wrote:
You can always use fringe with GOWK also and get ur self some accurate shot mins on the map


or just play sev or arc snipers with genwon


Thats a good point you can put together a nice clone army with sevs and arcs and with GOWK in the mix they will be that much better.
saeseetiin
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 5:45:33 AM
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@Lobostele I agree 100% its not like you would just let plagueis get right in range.
awesome
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 6:33:09 AM
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Hey, with the new darth sidiouse now you can just swap him in, so no problem getting to the back, camaasi nobiles are very good now.

last Saturday I beat a GOWK squad with KKJBM and some others and pretty much all that died on my team was uggies, mouse droid, dodonna, and a body guard, GOWK didnt kill anything it was all yobuck, but all of his team was defeated, and he played it out very well.

so I think that a Plagueis squad will definatly beat out allot of GOWK squads.

I run sith all the time for whoever is like "oh who runs sith anyways" I do almost every Saturday.
saeseetiin
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 7:06:02 AM
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110 point cost is alot for sidious and plagueis dont leave that much room for many great shoters if u want atcivations
LoboStele
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 8:58:01 AM
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Well, you'll never be able to pull off the Plagueis/Sidious combo at 150 points, that's for sure. You'll be out-activated against most GOWK builds anyways. And Sidious' swap is limited to 6 squares. So, now what you have to do is run up your swap piece, AND run up a Mouse Droid or Sidious, then swap in. If you use a beefy enough swapping piece, you could do that in 1 turn with Pawn, but even that isn't THAT hard to defend against. Most good players are used to Swap squads by now because of B&B, so setting yourself up to protect against a Swap/Corruption isn't really a problem.

Besides, go back and re-read my post. I didn't mention ANYTHING about how Plagueis got close enough to use Corruption. I had already assumed that somehow he got close enough to do it. If he was using Swap, fine, that works, but it still plays out like I posted earlier. If he's not using Swap and has to run up to get that close, well then he's probably getting shot otherwise as he approaches, which makes things even worse.

Now, if you're talking about 200 points....OK, Sidious/Plagueis might be a bit more worthwhile there, but at 200 points, think about all the extra support GOWK has as well. He can now have Dash, Rex, Jarael, AND a JWM. Plagueis would die in one phase from the Rex/Dash combo if he came anywhere near them.

Both Plagueis and Sidious are decent pieces. But I don't think a squad of the two of them together will be much of a counter to anything. Especially when you figure that a Vong squad would tear them apart, regardless of Parry. Enough attacks will get through that they'll die quickly.
mercenary_moose
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 9:36:31 AM
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I think that Plaguelis is NOT the answer to GOWK. Yes, Force Corruption auto-damage is fun, but GOWK gets to make saves for the damage after that, and then you fall in the the MOTF-Mettle trap you were trying to avoid in the first place. Also, Plaguelis is far too fragile to stand up for more than maybe two rounds against a GOWK team. Heck, I'd be very suprised to see that.
awesome
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 10:11:07 AM
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@mercenary moose, no Plagueis would last longer than what you think, He is not fragile, he has a good solid 20 defence and 120 life, that is hard to find, and he is subject to many good CE's from the sith.

to me it would be very close between a GOWK squad and a Plagueis squad, especially since I won(and killed) GOWK with NR and it was close, GOWK is not indestructible, and Plagueis can do the Auto damage even if he saves the corruption the second time, and since you wont save every corruption Id say that while Plagueis is corrupting him and causing massive damage it will also take GOWK's force points down to.

I know that you think that Plagueis will get shot at but, who says Im keeping him in the open? and your shooter's will be in the back(most of the time) so they will have a hard time taking shots at him.
joelker41
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 10:23:01 AM
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Just to clarify I was not in anyway suggesting Plagueis is a viable Anti-GOWK figure my point was (and I didn't say it clearly) it really doesn't matter what is with GOWK (whether JWM/Rex/Dash/Jarael/etc) what matters is almost regardless Plagueis in 150 doesn't have the faction support to pull off wins vs. GOWK.

R2 instantly makes the Republic more mobile than any Sith squad (in 150) and as stated before Plagueis will die to Accurate Shot, the non accurate shooters are more of a positioning battle but yes they to would destroy him very easily.

And there is the point as Lobostele said that he will run out of FPs much quicker than you would think between rerolling Parry, saving for Grenades, missles, etc, and even on speed and attacks, not to mention Essence of Life which alone will take probably half his FPs late in games.

In 150 Malak is the only playable Sith Lord, and he barely scratches 1.5. He dies quickly to YoBuck, Swap squads, Tempo Control, and even Vong, pretty much everything good. There are games where as we saw in the Wisconsin Regional where a well played Malak with good matchups can do well early but Malak's Auto Damage and Jarael's defensive prowess probably kept the Sith in the fight longer than anticipated.

It's a crapshoot to try to determine if the Sith are 'that competitive' because some games they do really well and others they just die, and die quickly.

I would relate their status in 150 competitive DCI like a matchup of 1 vs 8 in a given sport's playoffs. The 8th seed's biggest chance to win is that first game because there is a very short learning curve, after that the superior team (or in this case squad) will prevail barring bad shooting (rolls).
awesome
Posted: Monday, June 1, 2009 10:40:03 AM
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150 he's not very playable, but I dont play 150's, 200 is where its at for me, the sith I play with very well(I have 1 of each) adn in 150 malak is not the only competitive piece there is Talon, Holo sid, the new sidiouse, probably the new Maul, and there is always cheap accurate shooters and cheap shooters to fill with them(like Boba enforcer, Aurra sing, dash even though I dont think hes very good, and much more)

and why are U guys trying to say that jareal would last against plagueis? corrupt and possably the next round she's dead, same with rex and dash, because they will have to come close to shoot at plagueis I dont just pop him in the open to say "hey shoot me!" no I put him behind a wall or something
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