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Official Balance Committee Rulings Options
TimmerB123
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 3:06:40 PM
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Nov 2015
Quote:
(This is a copy and paste from the Balance Committee forum)

CARD ERRATA
-Commando Droid Officer: Coordinated Movement and CE only affect CDs and Elite CDs.
-Neo-Crusader Officer: Defense boost no change (affects allies). Cannon CE only affects "Neo-Crusader followers."
-Klat Assassin: Change Cost to 17
-Panaka of Theed: Change CE: drop Twin and add Double Attack
-Imperial Governor: Change to Instill Fear: All FOLLOWERS [allies and enemies] within 6 squares get -2 to save rolls. Change to the CE: Each FOLLOWER within 6 squares may reroll each successful save once.
-Poggle: change Cost to 16.

FLOOR RULE CHANGES
-Mouse Droid: Mouse Droids gain the following SA for competitive play: "Diminutive: this piece does not provide cover or block movement."
-Rapport: Rapport cannot decrease a piece's cost below 3.
-Bribery and Reinforcements: Bribery and Reinforcements are mutually exclusive, but a squad can contain multiples of either

GLOSSARY CHANGES
-Sith Battle Manipulation and pits: You cannot move characters into pits or other illegal spaces
-Add the following SA: "Diminutive: this piece does not provide cover or block movement."


Jan 2017
Quote:
Blast bugs - Will receive no change.

Domain Lah Warriors - increase cost to 12 (majority BC score).

Warrior Caste Subcommander - increase cost to 23 (majority BC score).

Yun-Ne'Shel Priest - CE will be changed to unique and possibly an FAQ to clarify that it IS disruptable.
Quote:
After setup, choose a Unique Yuuzhan Vong follower. That character gains Avoid Defeat.


Force Ghosts - will be added to the non-living definition (likely by adding "including figures without a Hit Point number/rating" to the non-living description.)

Aggressive negotiations - the ability will be amended so it's switched off whenever a figure causes damage to an enemy ("...until it makes an attack, --deals damage to or-- is targeted by an enemy character").


Sept 2017
Quote:

Balance Committee: Errata

Togorian Black Sun Vigo


Black Sun allies with Grenades 10 gain Grenades 30 and Grenade Launcher.

Black Sun Commanders gain Grenades 30 and Grenade Launcher.
Caedus
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 3:21:59 PM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
For those who didn't hear it on SHNN last week - here are all the official changes that will be implemented at all official tournaments, effective now.

Quote:
Blast bugs - Will receive no change.

Domain Lah Warriors - increase cost to 12 (majority BC score).

Warrior Caste Subcommander - increase cost to 23 (majority BC score).

Yun-Ne'Shel Priest - CE will be changed to unique and possibly an FAQ to clarify that it IS disruptable.
Quote:
After setup, choose a Unique Yuuzhan Vong follower. That character gains Avoid Defeat.


Force Ghosts - will be added to the non-living definition (likely by adding "including figures without a Hit Point number/rating" to the non-living description.)

Aggressive negotiations - the ability will be amended so it's switched off whenever a figure causes damage to an enemy ("...until it makes an attack, --deals damage to or-- is targeted by an enemy character").



+1000000 Nothing that is confusing, harsh either way, and IMO, truly doesn't take everything away from gameplay.

Outstanding
TimmerB123
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 3:43:09 PM
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Excellent job overall IMO.

Some common sense rulings (Ghosts=Non-Living, Aggressive Negotistions shuts off after you cause damage to an enemy.).

Wise cost increases - Warrior Caste subcommander no longer a reinforcement option. Ridiculously under costed Lah Warriors now only a power 9 instead of a power 11. (Though if I had my druthers I would've made them cost 14)

No more invincible bodyguard for the Vong via Yun-Ne'shell priest! I unfortunately still for see this priest being a problem in the future. (Avoid Defeat with +4 to all saves = not smart). Nonetheless making it only uniques is a good step. Design team needs to be vigilant to never make a unique Vong bodyguard.
Echo24
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 5:17:10 PM
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I think I'm ready to support SWM 2.0. Kill everything but 400 or so cards, re-write the rule book so it's clearer and more in line with modern game design sensibilities, pare down the glossary and FAQ so they actually expound on the rules rather than being required reading, and go from there. The encyclopedia of changes to old things and explanations of new things is starting to get cumbersome I think.

I am glad that the balance committee favors re-costing things and small word changes, though. They definitely have usability in mind to a certain degree, which is admirable.
harryg
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 5:53:13 PM
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Echo24 wrote:
I think I'm ready to support SWM 2.0. Kill everything but 400 or so cards, re-write the rule book so it's clearer and more in line with modern game design sensibilities, pare down the glossary and FAQ so they actually expound on the rules rather than being required reading, and go from there. The encyclopedia of changes to old things and explanations of new things is starting to get cumbersome I think.

I am glad that the balance committee favors re-costing things and small word changes, though. They definitely have usability in mind to a certain degree, which is admirable.

I know what you're saying makes sense practically, but one of the things I like about SWM is the vast options in terms of cards. Killing pieces entirely doesn't seem as cool to me personally. Don't want to be left with a bunch of actually useless pieces and cards that you don't even have the option of using. There's obsolete and then literally unusable and I don't know how I feel about the latter.
Echo24
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 5:59:22 PM
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harryg wrote:
Echo24 wrote:
I think I'm ready to support SWM 2.0. Kill everything but 400 or so cards, re-write the rule book so it's clearer and more in line with modern game design sensibilities, pare down the glossary and FAQ so they actually expound on the rules rather than being required reading, and go from there. The encyclopedia of changes to old things and explanations of new things is starting to get cumbersome I think.

I am glad that the balance committee favors re-costing things and small word changes, though. They definitely have usability in mind to a certain degree, which is admirable.

I know what you're saying makes sense practically, but one of the things I like about SWM is the vast options in terms of cards. Killing pieces entirely doesn't seem as cool to me personally. Don't want to be left with a bunch of actually useless pieces and cards that you don't even have the option of using. There's obsolete and then literally unusable and I don't know how I feel about the latter.


Yeah, I mean, I've given just a few minutes thought about it now and then over the years. Maybe not a good idea. Just hard for a game to stay accessible when it's a decade old, has no rotation, and has had dozens of designers hands on it (and only one was ever an actual professional designer).
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 6:02:20 PM
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Going to 400 cards would, I think, be even more cumbersome because then you'd need to remember what's in and what's out.

But a re-designed rulebook would be nice.

I don't think there's an encyclopedia of changes. This is only the second announcement from the Balance Committee. It would be nice to have a single document with a list of all changes, but the list of "significant" changes would be short - less than a page. There are myriad minor errata, though. I think there's two pages of WotC errata, but none of them have any real effect on gameplay. Along the same lines, Vsets have their fair share of omitted "Melee Attack" and "Unique", too.
Echo24
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 6:08:14 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Going to 400 cards would, I think, be even more cumbersome because then you'd need to remember what's in and what's out.

But a re-designed rulebook would be nice.

I don't think there's an encyclopedia of changes. This is only the second announcement from the Balance Committee. It would be nice to have a single document with a list of all changes, but the list of "significant" changes would be short - less than a page. There are myriad minor errata, though. I think there's two pages of WotC errata, but none of them have any real effect on gameplay. Along the same lines, Vsets have their fair share of omitted "Melee Attack" and "Unique", too.


The "explanations of new things" makes up most of the encyclopedia. Changes to old things gets disdain just for the experience it creates for a returning or new player for cards to be different than as printed.

You're definitely right that cutting out all but 400 cards (a number I pulled out of thin air) has lots of its own problems. Not to mention the development time of picking the 400 cards and testing everything with just that pool.

Don't mind me, I don't think this is something that really has legs. I just wince at these things. The changes chosen were good and well-implemented.
DarthMaim
Posted: Thursday, February 2, 2017 9:25:31 AM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
For those who didn't hear it on SHNN last week - here are all the official changes that will be implemented at all official tournaments, effective now.

Quote:
Blast bugs - Will receive no change.

Domain Lah Warriors - increase cost to 12 (majority BC score).

Warrior Caste Subcommander - increase cost to 23 (majority BC score).

Yun-Ne'Shel Priest - CE will be changed to unique and possibly an FAQ to clarify that it IS disruptable.
Quote:
After setup, choose a Unique Yuuzhan Vong follower. That character gains Avoid Defeat.


Force Ghosts - will be added to the non-living definition (likely by adding "including figures without a Hit Point number/rating" to the non-living description.)

Aggressive negotiations - the ability will be amended so it's switched off whenever a figure causes damage to an enemy ("...until it makes an attack, --deals damage to or-- is targeted by an enemy character").


+1.

Well done balance committee. I had just been thinking too, the other day, whatever happened with dealing with these issues the community had such lengthy discussions on last year. The ones that most everyone in the community had agreed were abusable and ridiculously undercosted minis and horribly impossible to defeat minis, with head scratching, fall through the cracks CE's and SA's that were totally nonsensicle and preposterous in the game. Thank you for addressing these issues!
jak
Posted: Thursday, February 2, 2017 1:52:39 PM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
For those who didn't hear it on SHNN last week - here are all the official changes that will be implemented at all official tournaments, effective now.

Quote:
Blast bugs - Will receive no change.

Domain Lah Warriors - increase cost to 12 (majority BC score).

Warrior Caste Subcommander - increase cost to 23 (majority BC score).

Yun-Ne'Shel Priest - CE will be changed to unique and possibly an FAQ to clarify that it IS disruptable.
Quote:
After setup, choose a Unique Yuuzhan Vong follower. That character gains Avoid Defeat.





I label the above rule changes as Joe's Revenge revenge
donnyrides
Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 5:46:45 PM
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This should be in some form of errata sticky somewhere.
swinefeld
Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 10:01:59 PM
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donnyrides wrote:
This should be in some form of errata sticky somewhere.


Sticky'd here until it gets moved/integrated into the rules forum.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, June 1, 2017 7:44:51 AM
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For reference, here's the first set of balance team rulings (Tim has the 2nd set above):

http://swmgamers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17399
dreadtech
Posted: Sunday, July 23, 2017 7:34:04 AM
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Glad I only play casual games so don't have to bother with this rubbish. There are far more problematic, foolishly cost-ed characters both within the official characters from wotc and vsets then any you just changed.

I gave the opportunity to implement these changes to our group of players down the club in any case. Non wanted to have any of them. While the Force Ghosts makes sense, the fact you have changed the cost of character for several Vong but left alone so many others from other factions! well it was always going to be except all or none. So it none.

Still as said none of us do tournament play so we have the option to ignore this.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Sunday, July 23, 2017 7:49:01 AM
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dreadtech wrote:
Glad I only play casual games so don't have to bother with this rubbish. There are far more problematic, foolishly cost-ed characters both within the official characters from wotc and vsets then any you just changed.

I gave the opportunity to implement these changes to our group of players down the club in any case. Non wanted to have any of them. While the Force Ghosts makes sense, the fact you have changed the cost of character for several Vong but left alone so many others from other factions! well it was always going to be except all or none. So it none.

Still as said none of us do tournament play so we have the option to ignore this.



It's good you have a playgroup and that you all can do what you like.

I would add though that these changes are great. Do I think they should have made more of course i do and have I been vocal about that as well.

The fact that other changes weren't made shouldn't dimish the good changes they did make. So good sir what changes would you like to see?
DarkDracul
Posted: Sunday, September 10, 2017 7:57:35 AM
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Sunday, September 10th, 2017

Balance Committee: Errata

Togorian Black Sun Vigo


Black Sun allies with Grenades 10 gain Grenades 30 and Grenade Launcher.

Black Sun Commanders gain Grenades 30 and Grenade Launcher.
jak
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 11:45:43 AM
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if the Balance Committee spend time looking at characters before they come out, we wouldn't need a Balance Committee.

this group should assist the designers from crapping out more turds, not trying re-arrange the poo after it hit the floor.
that just makes a mess, and raise a big stink!LOL
jen'ari
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 11:58:24 AM
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jak wrote:
if the Balance Committee spend time looking at characters before they come out, we wouldn't need a Balance Committee.

this group should assist the designers from crapping out more turds, not trying re-arrange the poo after it hit the floor.
that just makes a mess, and raise a big stink!LOL




+1
and makes perfect sense.


and great job balance committee for another needed ruling.
AceAce
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 12:31:53 PM
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We do not need some wholesale changes at all. How many will it really add to the game? The result would be nil. If you like the game you play it, if you don't you don't. Honestly, as far the competitive scene goes, unless you play in events or host events or travel to events, not sure anything will really persuade or dissuade you from playing if you're not already doing so. I have had NPE and given them no doubt with some of my squads, but I have never really considered not playing based on some mechanic I hated.
jen'ari
Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 1:13:40 PM
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AceAce wrote:
We do not need some wholesale changes at all. How many will it really add to the game? The result would be nil. If you like the game you play it, if you don't you don't. Honestly, as far the competitive scene goes, unless you play in events or host events or travel to events, not sure anything will really persuade or dissuade you from playing if you're not already doing so. I have had NPE and given them no doubt with some of my squads, but I have never really considered not playing based on some mechanic I hated.


yes, but NPE's are still super bad when you face them.
It's just that our community has really stepped away from bringing huge NPE's to events and things.
last time when reserves was brought it caused a massive uproar. and that is at least a skirmish inducing NPE.

In all reality, if I traveled to gencon (planning on 2018) and played great and was close to advancing but then lost to 27 gran raiders throwing 30 damage grenades with super stealth. I would think about quitting on the spot.
or even diplomats that can attack....
I would be so pissed about it.
Or better yet a regional.

My love for the game is as much fun as I have playing the game.

Also, it might not help add that many players to the game. but it sure can help with retention. The first time a new player sees a wall of diplomats and has it explained might be a huge deterrent to sticking around...

Retention is just as important as new faces imo.

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