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Gencon Championship squad list Options
jen'ari
Posted: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 8:40:31 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:

I don't think I made the wrong call by bringing Sith. My squad had a legitimate chance to win the whole thing. I lost to a counter-squad (Vong). I won 3 other matches. Then I was out-played by Spry in the last round, and that was the difference between 3rd place and 9th, but losing to Spry's Rebels wasn't a matter of the squad not having a chance. I've played Caedus/Barriss against Cin more than once and each time it's come down to a couple die rolls - Cin was 2 of the top 6. Looking at the whole field, the only two squads I'd be afraid of are Etienne's (Pellaeon) and Mike's (Vong). Granted, since Etienne won it, I don't think I would have beaten him in the playoffs if we had met, but it's not like he went unchallenged through the whole thing. Certainly feasible that if things had gone a bit differently I could have made top 6 and avoided bad matchups in the playoffs.

Granted, I wasn't really trying to play 'meta' anyway. I only have experience with a couple of good squads, and Caedus/Barriss is what I know best. But I do think I had a legit chance in the tournament... would have taken some more skill on my part plus a bit of luck - but not an absurd amount.


I dont quite understand what you are saying here.
you have a legitimate chance to win it all, but end up 9th and would have needed luck to have won.
Also Spry's rebels have a few very distinct advantage over your squad. I do not know how it played out or anything, but i know Caedus's Makashi does not work on Katarn or Speeder. I also know that Sabine counters Mira's auto damage.
Disruptive hurts the Force Ghosts a bit.

certainly feasible that if things had gone a bit differently?
plus a bit of luck?

these statements are not compatible with being competitive.


point being is that Caedus is the best Sith has to offer and it needed luck and is one of your most experienced squads and it came up 9th.
that is the best Sith squad you can play and from a great player.
9th place.

all this, one thing different and a little bit of luck doesn't mean anything in a competitive outlook. 9th place is 9th place. Sith, at its very utmost capacity got 9th place this year.





atmsalad
Posted: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 8:46:01 PM
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I think this tournament high lighted the importance of getting 3 point wins and when you lose getting 1 point losses. The top 6 cut off was 10 points leaving 4 hanging with 9 points and 2 with 8 points. Every point really matters in competitive tournaments!
atmsalad
Posted: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 8:49:31 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
I haven't yet beaten Vong or Ysalamiri with it, but thanks for the benefit of the doubt.

Side note: Alex's dad's name is Bob. Someone who played him should be able to provide you at least the faction.

+1
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:01:54 PM
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Quote:
all this, one thing different and a little bit of luck doesn't mean anything in a competitive outlook. 9th place is 9th place. Sith, at its very utmost capacity got 9th place this year.


That's true if you're talking about the "glory" someone deserves. I ended where I ended. But if you're talking about the viability of a squad and want to know whether write it off, the way that it loses is absolutely relevant.

I had a decent lead in the game against Spry at one point. Jan, the Speeder, R2, and Crix were all dead, I still had a bunch of Force points, and he had almost no damage on my damage dealers (just poured it into the Skiff). I made a bad error - leaving Exar outside of the main combat room and planning to move him into the room early in the next round. Turns out I needed him in the room before I had a chance to move him. On top of that, I didn't recognize Kyle's top dmg output. Top of the round I pulled Kyle across 3 Mines squares adjacent to Caedus. But 3 Mines saves (Kyle made all 3 saves) and then attacking with Caedus didn't kill Kyle. If Exar were in the room, the Mines and Shields saves would have been harder, but more importantly I would have spent Exar's FPs on SBM, leaving Caedus with enough to Master Illusion twice when Kyle attacked him. But instead Caedus had only 1 fp and went down quickly. With Exar in the room it would have been save 20s on Master Illusion and Caedus would have almost certainly lived. If I had simply had Exar in the room, I'd put my chances in that skirmish at 80-20, maybe better. That's not to take anything away from Spry - I made the mistake and he won because he played without making such mistakes. But that loss is on the player (me), not the matchup.

When I said I'd need a little bit of luck to win it all I'm just talking about Etienne losing before I would have had to face him. Not to say I would have automatically beaten everyone else - just that I'd be evenly matched with everyone else. My squad has plenty of bad matchups, but only 2 of them showed up in this tournament.

Little bit of luck in a skirmish means everything. When a match comes down to a die roll or a placement error you don't say the lucky squad is good and the unlucky squad is bad. They're evenly matched. Same thing with a play error swinging a match. You don't write off a squad because it loses due to a play error.
jen'ari
Posted: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:27:11 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:

That's true if you're talking about the "glory" someone deserves. I ended where I ended. But if you're talking about the viability of a squad and want to know whether write it off, the way that it loses is absolutely relevant.

I had a decent lead in the game against Spry at one point. Jan, the Speeder, and Crix were dead, I still had a bunch of Force points, and he had almost no damage on my damage dealers (just poured it into the Skiff). I made a bad error - leaving Exar outside of the main combat room and planning to move him into the room early in the next round. Turns out I needed him in the room before I had a chance to move him. On top of that, I didn't recognize Kyle's top dmg output. Top of the round I pulled Kyle across 3 Mines squares adjacent to Caedus. But 3 Mines saves (Kyle made all 3 saves) and then attacking with Caedus didn't kill Kyle. If Exar were in the room, the Mines and Shields saves would have been harder, but more importantly I would have spent Exar's FPs on SBM, leaving Caedus with enough to Master Illusion twice when Kyle attacked him. But instead Caedus had only 1 fp and went down quickly. With Exar in the room it would have been save 20s on Master Illusion and Caedus would have almost certainly lived. If I had simply had Exar in the room, I'd put my chances in that skirmish at 80-20, maybe better. That's not to take anything away from Spry - I made the mistake and he won because he played without making such mistakes. But that loss is on the player (me), not the matchup.

When I said I'd need a little bit of luck to win it all I'm just talking about Etienne losing before I would have had to face him. Not to say I would have automatically beaten everyone else - just that I'd be evenly matched with everyone else. My squad has plenty of bad matchups, but only 2 of them showed up in this tournament.

Little bit of luck in a skirmish means everything. When a match comes down to a die roll or a placement error you don't say the lucky squad is good and the unlucky squad is bad. They're evenly matched. Same thing with a play error swinging a match. You don't write off a squad because it loses due to a play error.


hindsight is 20/20 my friend.
If I did this and if I did that.
If Kawhi Leonard didn't land on douchebags foot in the Western Conference finals than the Spurs would be the champions!
no one thinks that!
they think, Spurs would have won game 1 and it would be interesting.
Because things happen.

Sounds to me like you got off to a great start, but the things in Spry's squad kept him winning. Did Katarn kill Caedus that round with his unstoppable lightsaber? bet that sucked. bet not having your lightsaber go through his shield sucked too.
If Exar Kun has been in the room, since we are playing the what if game. than I say what if Crix madine was in the room stopping Caedus from using the force points anyway.

So you put your chances at 80/20 giving yourself every benefit of the doubt and the other squad no benefit of the doubt...

so, it doesn't mean anything. the army is great. it is good enough to possibly be top 6, I will say that. a sith squad that utilizes all the best Sith has to offer, Caedus and Exar Kun and really the rest is fringe haha.

The point is that you got lucky to get as far as you did and still couldn't pull it out because of Rebels answers.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:35:15 PM
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Crix was already dead, but whatever you want to go with is fine. I've said what I wanted to say.
jen'ari
Posted: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:38:06 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Crix was already dead, but whatever you want to go with us fine.


and Exar Kun wasn't in the room.


In your made up scenario Exar Kun is in the room.
In my made up scenario Crix Madine is in the room.


If you get t go back and do things differently, why can't the Rebels?
swinefeld
Posted: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:52:32 PM
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It's getting into dead horse beating territory at this point.

Next.
Boris
Posted: Sunday, August 27, 2017 5:00:21 PM
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jen'ari wrote:
SITH DO NOT NEED TECH.

They just need good sith.

The text from the spirits is close to enough.
Maybe a helpful holocron/amulet
But those can be built into the piece.


I agree with the point that sith need some revamping.
But they need good sith.

The only viable piece is caedus

Revan takes up to make squad with limited damage, bane had no defense, plageuis lacks melee defense, offense, force powers, movement, cognus lacks damage, malgus is great but there are ways around him.

We just need good sith

Sith Vader! Where are you?
Ya, there you are
http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/28217/darth-vader--master-of-evil



The Sith have the same problem they had when we started the v-sets: a lack of great movement breaking. I remember in playtesting Bastila and Zannah became known as the Dynamic Duo, because they could pretty much handle anything thrown at them. They could spread out and force the opponent to chase them around the board, but what really held them back was that sooner or later you've got to get to Gambit or have a way of engaging. One of my favorite tests at the time was

Zannah
Bastila
Sith Inquistor x2
Gammorean Bodyguard x3
Ugnaught Demolitionist x4
11 acts, 199 pts.

The premise was pretty simple. The bodyguards soaked up all the damage for Bastila or the inquisitors and the ugnaughts if they strafed. The squad didn't care about commander effects so the only real threat was from force immunity figures. Once the inquisitors got rolling, they were either killing figures or turning them against the opponent,

Today I'd dump Bastila for the 28 pt. Talon and round out the squad with more acts.
TheHutts
Posted: Sunday, August 27, 2017 5:37:31 PM
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Boris wrote:

Zannah
Bastila
Sith Inquistor x2
Gammorean Bodyguard x3
Ugnaught Demolitionist x4
11 acts, 199 pts.

The premise was pretty simple. The bodyguards soaked up all the damage for Bastila or the inquisitors and the ugnaughts if they strafed. The squad didn't care about commander effects so the only real threat was from force immunity figures. Once the inquisitors got rolling, they were either killing figures or turning them against the opponent,

Today I'd dump Bastila for the 28 pt. Talon and round out the squad with more acts.


Ortugg would be a good fit for that squad.

Sith do have a strong, unique movement breaker with Caedus SL's Sith Battle Manipulation, but it does have counters in the meta like force immunity.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Sunday, August 27, 2017 5:58:53 PM
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Caedus and Revan are both big movement breakers. Problem is that Revan is 62 and not quite worth it, and Caedus is so Force dependent.

JA Sidious it's also a great but too expensive movement breaker.
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