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AceAce
Posted: Friday, December 15, 2017 4:45:36 AM
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Joined: 8/26/2008
Posts: 349
Location: Kokomo, IN
I designed the Gungan and he is a lot of fun. Offers a movement breaker (small one) that was not possible before (at least without R2 astro.) But that is not what he is there for, his throw ignoring cover makes it possible to accurate essentially and hunt pieces you want that are hiding. His extra reach is nice as well and he has a chance to damage piece in another way other than the familiar Atlatl and Cesta. I am sure people will enjoy if when they play him and Gungan players will like him a whole lot.
shmi15
Posted: Friday, December 15, 2017 2:20:27 PM
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Joined: 4/19/2010
Posts: 1,192
Caedus wrote:
jen'ari wrote:
Should it be considered whatever the mouse droid is... Diminutive or something


I would agree. I think at 12 points though, designers weren't worried about a spam wall.



Designers also weren't worried about Critdu when he came out. But, I defer to your supreme knowledge, Caedus.
shmi15
Posted: Friday, December 15, 2017 2:22:37 PM
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Joined: 4/19/2010
Posts: 1,192
[quote=AceAce]I designed the Gungan and he is a lot of fun. Offers a movement breaker (small one) that was not possible before (at least without R2 astro.) But that is not what he is there for, his throw ignoring cover makes it possible to accurate essentially and hunt pieces you want that are hiding. His extra reach is nice as well and he has a chance to damage piece in another way other than the familiar Atlatl and Cesta. I am sure people will enjoy if when they play him and Gungan players will like him a whole lot. [/quote


Are you a Gungan player? Or are you saying there are Gungan players who like him? Is this the piece Gungans needed to be seen at Regionals? I could be wrong but I don't think we had any Gungan based squads did we?
FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, December 15, 2017 2:27:13 PM
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Tarpals with Gungans and Flametroopers have been seen.
shmi15
Posted: Friday, December 15, 2017 2:28:41 PM
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Posts: 1,192
FlyingArrow wrote:
Tarpals with Gungans and Flametroopers have been seen.



This is why I asked, do you know who it was who played it? And was it seen once this last year?
urbanjedi
Posted: Friday, December 15, 2017 2:55:19 PM
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Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 1,586
shmi15 wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
Tarpals with Gungans and Flametroopers have been seen.



This is why I asked, do you know who it was who played it? And was it seen once this last year?


I have played my fair share of gungan squads. Won the PA regional with them (2016) and finished 2nd in the NY regional with them as well (2014?15?). Played around with them at other points as well.

The squads themselves have morphed more towards tarpals and using better and better non-gungans with him (DR e, Momaw, Blizz, Vet uggie, etc, etc). I think the new gungan brings them back towards using gungans more. Which actually works because gungans biggest problems in the past were the fact that they only had 30hp and once they were based, were such bad attackers that it was a losing proposition (hence the change to the other characters). This new gungan changes that somewhat as he has some staying power, so just basing you isn't the end of the road.

Not sure if the gungans were ever top tier, but just like most things, they will cycle in and out depending on the meta and what players want to play. I mean when we talk about good squads we normally can come up with 20-25 (or more) viable squads (or squad types) and we have 15 or so players at a tournament so just by the nature of math some of the good squads aren't played.
shmi15
Posted: Friday, December 15, 2017 3:17:32 PM
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The gungan expert. Thank you, I was just curious. I have never seen Gunagn squads around. I have seen the Tarpals squads, but with Dr. E, Momaw, and the flamethrowers. Just never Gungan themed. Is Boss Nass ever used for the Gungans? It seems to me making HIM more playable is the key to a good Gungan squad right?
AceAce
Posted: Friday, December 15, 2017 4:06:23 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 8/26/2008
Posts: 349
Location: Kokomo, IN
Always use Boss Nass. Booming, Reinforcements and chance to bring them back full health
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 6:00:11 PM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 7,246
Saurin GenoHaradan Liaison
Fringe
Cost 19
HP 60
Def 16
Att +9
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Trandoshan.

Clan Leader [Non-Unique Fringe followers with printed Damage rating greater than 0 gain Political Operative]

Political Operative [Ignores Diplomat when targeting or attacking an enemy within 6 squares]

Commander Effect
Allies named GenoHaradan Assassin gain Twin Attack when attacking adjacent enemies.

At the end of this character's turn, an adjacent follower whose name contains GenoHaradan may move up to 8 squares if it begins and ends its move on low objects.


From SHNN
shmi15
Posted: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 6:19:33 PM
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Joined: 4/19/2010
Posts: 1,192
FlyingArrow wrote:
Saurin GenoHaradan Liaison
Fringe
Cost 19
HP 60
Def 16
Att +9
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Trandoshan.

Clan Leader [Non-Unique Fringe followers with printed Damage rating greater than 0 gain Political Operative]

Political Operative [Ignores Diplomat when targeting or attacking an enemy within 6 squares]

Commander Effect
Allies named GenoHaradan Assassin gain Twin Attack when attacking adjacent enemies.

At the end of this character's turn, an adjacent follower whose name contains GenoHaradan may move up to 8 squares if it begins and ends its move on low objects.


From SHNN




I would give this character a 3/10. Horrible CE, I will be willing to bet the movement portion of this CE gets botched in 50% of the games. Political Operative to all Non unique Fringe? Including Droids? I'm sure this was not tested no where near enough to see if its an issue. All characters who had Aggressive Negotiations, can now be attacked by an Uggie, and then they lose it. Overall horrible design and piece.
jen'ari
Posted: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 6:24:48 PM
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 1,693
shmi15 wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
Saurin GenoHaradan Liaison
Fringe
Cost 19
HP 60
Def 16
Att +9
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Trandoshan.

Clan Leader [Non-Unique Fringe followers with printed Damage rating greater than 0 gain Political Operative]

Political Operative [Ignores Diplomat when targeting or attacking an enemy within 6 squares]

Commander Effect
Allies named GenoHaradan Assassin gain Twin Attack when attacking adjacent enemies.

At the end of this character's turn, an adjacent follower whose name contains GenoHaradan may move up to 8 squares if it begins and ends its move on low objects.


From SHNN




I would give this character a 3/10. Horrible CE, I will be willing to bet the movement portion of this CE gets botched in 50% of the games. Political Operative to all Non unique Fringe? Including Droids? I'm sure this was not tested no where near enough to see if its an issue. All characters who had Aggressive Negotiations, can now be attacked by an Uggie, and then they lose it. Overall horrible design and piece.

I love the diplomat hate tbh.
I hate aggressive negotiations. And anything that can get kill see-threepio is my favorite thing in the world.

I don't like the second half of the ce either. As we get more complex with movement breaker they get a tad hard to remember, use, and make the game more complicated.

Kudos on trying a new idea with genoharadans and the idea is thematic but gameplay it is just not "clean" and add to the list of things that are in the game.

shmi15
Posted: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 6:36:29 PM
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Joined: 4/19/2010
Posts: 1,192
Its not that I am in love with characters with AN. But thats usually a huge part of their Niche right? So now, we have a created a 19 point piece that completely eradicates their effectiveness, board wide, undisruptable, giving it to all Fringe non unique followers, thats 204 characters not including whatever else comes out in this set, not to mention any future set that releases a non unique Fringe Follower... Which we can all agree will grow.


Being 19 points makes him a perfect All Fringe squad Lobot reserve. Oh whats this? My squad wasn't built to take care of something, lets create a piece we can throw in after set up that will give me a better chance to win because I suck at squad building.


Was the purpose of this piece to remove Diplomats and AN from the meta? I think only about 20 pieces have those abilities in total, but thats not including anything given out by CE/SA of characters.


Who signed off on this guy? And what were some playtests that went into his design?
jen'ari
Posted: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 7:13:00 PM
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 1,693
I get where you are coming from.
You think it is a hard counter to aggressive negotiations.
It might be. Tbh I, personally, did not touch the piece in pt.
I can see what you are saying for sure.

It does seem to destroy AN pretty thoroughly.
I guess the question is should an be in the game in the first place?
Should diplomats be as powerful as they are?
If the question is yes to either of those than hard counter is not warranted.
If it is deemed a hard counter
CorellianComedian
Posted: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 8:21:58 PM
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Joined: 8/30/2014
Posts: 948
There's a fine balance here - on the one hand, if a type of piece (diplomat) has hardly any representation in the meta, do we want to nerf it into oblivion for anyone with Lobot? But on the other hand, if a type of piece has hardly any representation in the meta, does it really matter if something with not much presence gets kicked out?

Maybe giving Political Operative to only GenoHaradan allies would have been better. Really though, they gave me this piece to playtest right about when school took over for a while (apologies for not saying anything, FlyingArrow), so I think I don't have much room to talk.

While the piece does give you a strong counter to AN and Diplomat, it's also 19 points of mediocre if you don't have a GH Assassin. Unless your opponent is just completely spamming Diplomats, I kinda doubt it'd be wise to choose the Liaison over whatever else you were planning on using.
shmi15
Posted: Friday, December 22, 2017 8:18:48 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 4/19/2010
Posts: 1,192
jen'ari wrote:
I get where you are coming from.
You think it is a hard counter to aggressive negotiations.
It might be. Tbh I, personally, did not touch the piece in pt.
I can see what you are saying for sure.

It does seem to destroy AN pretty thoroughly.
I guess the question is should an be in the game in the first place?
Should diplomats be as powerful as they are?
If the question is yes to either of those than hard counter is not warranted.
If it is deemed a hard counter




Diplomats are not powerful... The Imp Diplomats are good b/c of a HORRIBLE design on another character. See-Threepio didn't seem to be anywhere near as much of a problem as people thought, and him having Diplomat was NOT the reason he was considered "broken", the rest of him was.

Vong are the only things I can think of that have diplomats through reinforcements, which I think was a terrible design, but again, not because of Diplomat, but because of EVERYTHING else they could get.

If this piece was designed purely to take out THAT Vong squad, someone just say it. It would make me happier knowing the Vong are becoming more and more obsolete. But, I don't think it was. Any designer care to chime in on this and give us some insight at to why this guy is made the way he is? Because so far its still the worst piece in the set thus far
shmi15
Posted: Friday, December 22, 2017 8:22:40 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 4/19/2010
Posts: 1,192
CorellianComedian wrote:
There's a fine balance here - on the one hand, if a type of piece (diplomat) has hardly any representation in the meta, do we want to nerf it into oblivion for anyone with Lobot? But on the other hand, if a type of piece has hardly any representation in the meta, does it really matter if something with not much presence gets kicked out?

Maybe giving Political Operative to only GenoHaradan allies would have been better. Really though, they gave me this piece to playtest right about when school took over for a while (apologies for not saying anything, FlyingArrow), so I think I don't have much room to talk.

While the piece does give you a strong counter to AN and Diplomat, it's also 19 points of mediocre if you don't have a GH Assassin. Unless your opponent is just completely spamming Diplomats, I kinda doubt it'd be wise to choose the Liaison over whatever else you were planning on using.



The entire concept of Lobot reserves is to taylor your squad against what your playing. So yes, if I had Lobot, and had ZERO way to attack a Diplomat that I wanted to take out, why would I NOT bring this guy in? If I have Rodian Brutes, Uggies, ANYTHING, they can now take care of an issue my squad had. Screw the Geo's being used, Giving them TWIN against adjacent enemies is not game breaking, I can give them twin in Seps for just about the same price except I can still shoot with them! And I could just run Sidious for 36, which would prob be a better movement breaker than the one this guy gives them.

shmi15
Posted: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:15:52 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 4/19/2010
Posts: 1,192
Hey K2SO, it was really cool being able to play you for 2/3 months in Rogue One, but now a 19 point piece made you unplayable, because AN was your best chance at getting close to enemies to do your 10 damage. Oh well, no big deal, Geo Assassins are now playable.





Wait, no they are not.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Sunday, December 31, 2017 10:38:26 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 7,246
General Kalani, Separatist Hero -subset 6/6
Separatist - RM: 2-1B (TFU 24)
Cost 25

HP 70
Def 15
Att +7
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Droid
Indiscriminate [When this character attacks an adjacent enemy, it ignores enemy abilities and commander effects that prevent targeting and attacking. These attacks cannot be redirected.]
Tactician +6 [Add +6 to the initiative roll except on a roll of 1]

Commander Effect
Droids are subject to these effects:
At the end of this character's turn, 1 Droid ally within 6 squares may immediately use an ability that replaces attacks and then move up to 4 squares.

If a living Separatist ally is adjacent to a non-living Separatist character in your squad (including this character), both get +3 Attack.


Kalani was a competent battle tactician who had single-minded obsession in securing victory and producing results.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Sunday, December 31, 2017 10:42:08 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 7,246
Plo Koon, Republic Hero 2/6
RM: Plo Jedi Master (MotF)
Cost 42

HP 140
Def 21
Att +14
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Pilot. Melee Attack

Opportunist [+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has activated this round]

Twin Attack [Whenever this character attacks, he makes 1 extra attack against the same target]

Force Powers
Force 5
Burst Lightning [Force 1, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; 10 damage]

Force Alter [Force 1: range 6; any 1 enemy rerolls its last attack]

Lightsaber Defense [Force 1: When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11]

Commander Effect
Allies whose names contain Wolf gain Rolling Fire [On its turn, each time this character defeats an enemy by making an attack, with a save of 11, it can immediately move up to 2 squares and then make 1 attack against another enemy without provoking an attack of opportunity].
CorellianComedian
Posted: Sunday, December 31, 2017 11:01:51 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/30/2014
Posts: 948
FlyingArrow wrote:
Plo Koon, Republic Hero 2/6
RM: Plo Jedi Master (MotF)
Cost 42

HP 140
Def 21
Att +14
Dam 20

Special Abilities
Unique. Pilot. Melee Attack

Opportunist [+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has activated this round]

Twin Attack [Whenever this character attacks, he makes 1 extra attack against the same target]

Force Powers
Force 5
Burst Lightning [Force 1, usable only on this character's turn: range 6; 10 damage]

Force Alter [Force 1: range 6; any 1 enemy rerolls its last attack]

Lightsaber Defense [Force 1: When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11]

Commander Effect
Allies whose names contain Wolf gain Rolling Fire [On its turn, each time this character defeats an enemy by making an attack, with a save of 11, it can immediately move up to 2 squares and then make 1 attack against another enemy without provoking an attack of opportunity].


10/10
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