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urbanjedi
Posted: Sunday, March 4, 2018 10:10:08 PM
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Played the Ehh vs Triple Ven in a solo game.

Played on Ruined Base. Ven on the left Solo on the right.

Ven set up on the top left area, Solo on the top-ish right.

Rd 1 was just lots of set up. Some intuitions and both sides got gambit, but no shots fired. Lobot locks the middle door.

Rd 2 Bastilla turns on. more positioning, but finally NR opens the door and Kkruhk can't get any damage through on Satele. Satele and Ven get Kkruhk almost dead, and Han runs satele out of FP and gets 30 in on Satele.

Rd 3. NR wins init and KKruhk gets 30 more on satele, Satele finishes him off, but can't move because it takes all 3 of her attacks because of avoid defeat. NR tosses in Ani, Satele fails her saves so Ani gets, Satele, 2 Wooks, lothcat, ugo, XT, Prowler and 30 on the commander. Then the OR makes a great play running one of the other wookiees the long way around so that Ven can run 10 and triple on Han. Ven takes some AoO damage, but kills Han, the extra falucians are beating up on him as well. The Wook Commander misses the kill shot on anakin (needed an 8). Bastilla runs up to get closer to the fray. NR gambit, OR finally pushed out.

Rd 4. NR wins init again, anakin drops the wook commander, then runs away around the corner. OR turns on Bastilla again, then Ven kills wedge with double and FP2 (failed avoid defeat). NR manages to kill another of the wookies, and Ganner misses on Ven to leave him at 20, while OR takes out Lobot and Dodonna. No gambit this round.

Rd 5 NR wins init, ganner finishes off Ven and moves back to gambit. The wook takes out one uggie, then dies to the other uggies/felucians. Bastilla goes and Bases anakin (further than 8 away) so he can't get away (but can't stay in gambit).

Rd 6 OR wins, kills Anakin and returns to gambit. NR just stands in gambit.

NR with Ganner and some free guys win over Bastilla and the R7

NR 209 (159KP + 5 gambit)
OR 191 (161 KP + 3 gambit)

Much closer game than it initially looks like.
urbanjedi
Posted: Sunday, March 4, 2018 10:16:42 PM
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Darth_Frenchy wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
What's the recommended Pellaeon swap for this matchup?


I will tell you my opinion om that after Jason and I play ;) haha


Haha

There are a few interesting options out there.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2018 6:56:40 AM
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urbanjedi wrote:

NR with Ganner and some free guys win over Bastilla and the R7

NR 209 (159KP + 5 gambit)
OR 191 (161 KP + 3 gambit)

Much closer game than it initially looks like.


Even closer if that is what was left. 200-29+30 = 201. Maybe the living scrubs weren't all free? If the Felucian and Uggie worth points were still alive, then that would make it 191.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2018 7:22:02 AM
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Darth_Frenchy wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
What's the recommended Pellaeon swap for this matchup?


I will tell you my opinion om that after Jason and I play ;) haha


How many games do you guys plan to play?
urbanjedi
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2018 8:12:19 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
urbanjedi wrote:

NR with Ganner and some free guys win over Bastilla and the R7

NR 209 (159KP + 5 gambit)
OR 191 (161 KP + 3 gambit)

Much closer game than it initially looks like.


Even closer if that is what was left. 200-29+30 = 201. Maybe the living scrubs weren't all free? If the Felucian and Uggie worth points were still alive, then that would make it 191.


yeah, I miscounted

209-201
urbanjedi
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2018 8:23:58 PM
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Voting Yobuck

Although this match is very map dependent and yoda has to be careful to not get stuck by diplomats. Imps have to try and keep everyone surrounded by diplo wall and make it work.

Positioning throughout will be key for both sides and inits could be HUGE.

Very close game.
DarkDracul
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2018 8:37:01 PM
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Location: Kokomo
Aww.. this is lame. ThumbDown
Darth_Frenchy
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2018 8:57:14 PM
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Daala for the win, but it's a 55-45 game. Jason and I are going to try to play this game out. Had it planned for tonight, but I had to cancel.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2018 9:19:10 PM
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Played Ehh versus Triple Ven in a solo game.

On Asteroid Base.

OR wins 208-63.

Wedge (who mobiled and missed the whole game) and Dodonna survive for the NR.

OR has Ven (80hp), Satele (50hp), Uggie, LothCat, Prowler, R7, XT-6 (out of position all game so never popped him), 1 Wookiee Scoundrel (10hp), Wookiee Commander (40hp), full health Bastila
Darth_Frenchy
Posted: Monday, March 5, 2018 9:56:06 PM
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Jason and I are getting ready to start :)
urbanjedi
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 1:28:24 AM
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Well that was pretty epic.

Write-up will be a little hazy and will just touch the highlights.

Imps win map (jabbas palace). Rep takes right, imps on left.


Kybuck manages to get to the sled and some raxus. Eats a crit and another shot before swapping to safety. Diplo misses his AoO on kybuck as he ran by

I try and block his access to R2, but he keeps blowing away the blockers. In the end, I forget his diplo can open the door and forget to give R2 a blocker and lose him. Then in frustration use Force push to kill the diplo when he could have just regular attacked

Dash makes 1 of 2 evades to live then wins init and kills 2 diplos

Skywalker goes down to 30 taking an AoO (he failed both of his LS Defense in this game) to kill a Scout

Panaka comes up to BG for Kybuck and dies for him to live.

Imps drop Kybuck to 30 (remember that missed AoO by the diplo earlier?)

Rep wins the final init with this left on the board. Imps concede as Yobuck can either get to Imp Officer and Needa or could just run away and hide and wait a round or 2 and win on gambit.

Yobuck at 30, Skywalker at 30, Mas and mouse to Daala, Imp Officer, Needa, Diplo, Mas

The game did take longer than the normal vassal time, but the reps were leading throughout.

Mistakes made by both sides (sled left available although it sure looked to me like it was the plan and was just bait, R2 getting popped, force pushing a diplo when an attack would have wored just as well, some other positioning errors, etc)

We both agree the game is really close, partly map dependent, certainly roll dependent (inits are huge, LS defense, AoOs by diplos, etc), and overall a great match where a small mistake here or there can turn the tide.



Darth_Frenchy
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 1:42:48 AM
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Good write up and hit all the high lights!

Definitely want to play the match-up again some time on the map I played at Gencon, or even just setting up first. I feel casually picking Jabbas Palace for this tournament was a thoughtless idea. I win map role, his map is way worse and he knows it better than me. So I pick Jabbas, but then he gets to set up on the better side. In the end, Jabbas isn't a Daala map, but especially when you have to play from the left side and not the right.
Good game though Jason!
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 6:33:30 AM
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FINAL RESULTS FOR Game #13

"Roger Stone of SWM V2": 2pts
Votes: Darth_Frenchy, DarkDracul

"Skybuck" 1003pts
Votes: FlyingArrow, urbanjedi, spryguy
Win: urbanjedi vs Darth_Frenchy (1000 pts)

There area few hours left, but unless urbanjedi and Darth_Frenchy agree to play again the result won't change, so I'm going to start the next one. If anyone wants to add last-minute votes or announce additional games before the deadline in a few hours I'll update the numbers here for the record. (Deadline for last minute submissions is still 1:52pm EST, 6 Mar 2018.)

Result reflected in the bracket here: http://challonge.com/xu51nfsp
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 6:35:37 AM
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GAME #14: "Prison Break" vs "Triple Ven"

Please vote for which squad you think would win, assuming equally skilled players (1 point per vote).
Try to persuade others to agree with you.
If you play a game with these squads against yourself (solo playtest), it's worth 5 points to the winning squad.
Two-player games count even more (10 points to the winning squad).
The squad with the most points wins.

If thereisnotry and FlyingArrow themselves (or their designated proxies) play any games, they are worth 1000 points each, so they pretty much dictate the final result, regardless of other voting or other results.

--Prison Break - Winner of GenCon 2016 Championship--
55 Luke and Leia on Speeder
30 Chewbacca, Rebel Hero
25 Sabine Wren
24 Han Solo, Captain of the Millennium Falcon (off board at start of skirmish)
21 Lando Calrissian, Infiltrator
16 General Crix Madine
12 See-Threepio (C-3PO)
9 General Dodonna
8 R2-D2
Han Solo in Carbonite (not an activation)

(200pts. 8 activations. 9 activations after unfreezing Han.)
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/170151/prison-break---winner-of-gencon-2016-championship

--Triple Ven--
46 Ven Zallow, Jedi Master
37 Satele Shan
33 Bastila Shan, Jedi Master
18 Wookiee Commander
44 Wookiee Scoundrel x4
8 R7 Astromech Droid
4 Loth-cat
4 Prowler 1000 Seeker Droid
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist
3 XT-6 Droid

(200pts. 13 activations)
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/184513/triple-ven

Deadline: 48 hours (9:36am EST, 8 Mar 2018). Votes must be posted by the deadline. If you plan to play a game, games can be reported up to 48 hours after the deadline, but intent to play (and the number of games) must be announced by the deadline.

If there are 12 hours with no votes or discussion, the match-up may be ended early.

(Note that for the semifinals, the timeframe has been extended from 24 to 48 hours.)
thereisnotry
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 2:49:16 PM
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I've been away for a while, but I'm back now. And it's a good time to return! Personally, in my completely unbiased opinion (lol), I think Prison Break wins this.

The OR has no scissors-defense, which will be a problem. Once the Speeder gets 2 strafes (or just 1 with Cunning, if Bastilla is off), it's simply a matter of working through Satele and Ven.

Furthermore, once the Speeder kills the Wookiees and gains an activation advantage, the OR player (now without a shooter threat) will face a difficult choice: stay back and guard Han (thus giving up gambit) or engage the Rebels (under Disruptive and BG) and make it safe to free Han.

The Rebel player's main concern is to protect the Speeder; as long as the Speeder is alive, the OR has a number of problems to deal with, which it really isn't equipped to do in this squad.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 9:47:00 PM
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I just played a solo game. OR won 216-72.

Map: Simulation Deck

R1: Advance. Bastila stays off. Satele "moves faster" to reach gambit on one side. Speeder easily gets gambit on the other.

R2: OR wins init and turns on ABM. With no Cunning, Rebels don't rush to Strafe. Wookiees spread out and stay away. Near the end of the round, Speeder strafes, hitting Satele, killing Ugnaught, taking a wookiee down to 10, and returning to safety by Chewie. A wookiee hits Chewie for 30. Ven pushes Speeder for 20 (100hp). Another wookiee hits Dodonna for 30, bodyguard to Chewie. (In retrospect probably a bad move - I didn't realize the skirmish would basically end before ABM would be off for a full round. So Dodonna was useless and those 30hp would've been better used as a Speeder bodyguard. But I don't think it changed the outcome.) Gambit for both.

R3: Rebels win init. They go first so Satele can't drop 80 with Cunning. Wookiees are still staying away, but Speeder strafes both Jedi and the damaged Wookiee: Misses Satele. Dead Wookiee Scoundrel (3 Scoundrels left). 20dmg on Ven (110hp). Returns to safety by the bodyguard. A wookiee gets to Triple Chewie for 40dmg each since the speeder in front of him has Stealth. Hits 1 (Chewie at 20hp). Misses the next and 3720 kicks in, so he wastes the 3rd attack. Ven doubles on the speeder, needing a FPRR to hit both, then Force-Attuned pushes, bringing Speeder down to 20hp. Chewie could have taken one of those hits, but Chewie hasn't activated yet and has only 20hp, so he doesn't take them. He ends up missing his attack, though. Sabine moves up, taking an aoo from Ven, to serve as a meatshield for the speeder and be in gambit. She takes 30 on the aoo before putting 20 on Ven. Meat shield fails, though, because the Seeker flies over and negates Stealth/Cloaked for the Speeder (but no one else), allowing Satele to push the hiding Speeder behind the Cloaked Sabine. Wookiees and OR scrubs move up. Rest of Rebels take potshots and position themselves. Gambit for both.

R4: Rebels win init. Sabine hits Satele for 20 (60hp). Ven kills Sabine, then takes an AOO from Lando (50hp) to move and FP2 to kill Chewie. Lando hits Ven again on his own turn, and that is BG'd to Satele (40hp). R2 locks the door and the rest of the round is just positioning. Gambit for OR.

R5: OR wins init. Wookiee misses R2. Lando kills the wookiee. R7 opens the door so Satele can Force Leap/LSAssault and kill Crix. Rest of the round is movement. Ven is blocked by a Threepio in the door. Gambit for OR.

R6: OR wins init. Satele kills Lando. Gambit for both.

Surviving:
Rebels: 30hp Threepio, 30hp R2-D2, still-frozen Han
OR: Full health Bastila, Wookiee Commander, R7, Loth-cat, and 2 Wookiee Scoundrels. 50hp Ven, 40hp Satele


I'm also going to vote OR.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 10:00:53 PM
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I was about halfway through when I realized how much the map was helping the OR. The wookiees were able to spread out and still see each other. They were far enough away that the Speeder couldn't strafe more than one and still get back to the bodyguard. But if the speeder went after more than one, it would be parked out alone where it would be vulnerable, and with ABM on it wasn't even killing the wookiees as it strafed, so it would be out there where 2 or 3 10hp wookiees would each shoot at it for potential 90dmg. Heading back to safety seemed like the better route. Bastila stayed on basically the whole skirmish since OR out-activated the Rebels. Turned on at the top of rounds 2 and 4, lasting through rounds 3 and 5, respectively. If the speeder had survived round 3, ABM would've had to turn back on immediately to prevent a top of round 40dmg strafe, and then turn off at the end of round 4.

On a map with closer quarters, keeping the wookiees away from each other that way may not have worked.
UrbanShmi
Posted: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 3:35:03 AM
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J and I played this match twice, once on Ruined Base and once on Rhen Var. The OR won both times. The key was the opposite of TJ's game--keeping the Wookiees huddled around Satele so she could Bodyguard the strafe damage, then when the speeder attacked her, Absorb Energy some of it back. It's a risky play, but worked both times with the loss of I think a single wookiee each time. Once the Speeder landed, it was easy enough to kill it, and then it's just fighting through the rest. This IS a tough match-up for the OR, but apparently even with the 30-hp Wookiees, it has enough beef to make it through.
thereisnotry
Posted: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 8:34:09 AM
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UrbanShmi wrote:
J and I played this match twice, once on Ruined Base and once on Rhen Var. The OR won both times. The key was the opposite of TJ's game--keeping the Wookiees huddled around Satele so she could Bodyguard the strafe damage, then when the speeder attacked her, Absorb Energy some of it back. It's a risky play, but worked both times with the loss of I think a single wookiee each time. Once the Speeder landed, it was easy enough to kill it, and then it's just fighting through the rest. This IS a tough match-up for the OR, but apparently even with the 30-hp Wookiees, it has enough beef to make it through.
Interesting.

Here's the thing with the Speeder in this squad: You can't ever make "the big" strafe unless you've got Cunning (which you won't vs Bastilla until the start of Round 4), because you're almost guaranteed to lose the Speeder if you make that move. There are no shenanigans like out-activating or MTB or anything in this squad, like there are in most Strafe squads. The main reason I lost two games with this squad in the 2016 Championship was precisely because I was playing it with normal Strafe tactics...but they don't work with this squad. Eventually I realized that I couldn't run the Speeder out and then hope that it lives until a second turn. Rather, I started to run it like a yo-yo, always returning to the safety of Disruptive and BG. That's what I did in my 2nd game vs Bryan (Vong) and then Mike (Vong) and also vs Jason (Rep) in the final. I didn't lose the Speeder in any of these games, but it did plenty of work each time.

So basically, after reading these play reports, I'm not sure people are playing the speeder optimally for this squad. Rather than trying for a big strafe, think of it instead as a Speed 12 melee attacker who happens to step on things as it travels to its target, and then gets automatically teleported back home afterward.

So as it applies to the game that J and L played, I would definitely not make a big strafe and then leave the Speeder out there, even if everyone is huddled together. Rather, I would strafe as much as possible while still returning to safety (and definitely out of LOS from those triple-attacking Wookiees). So if they're close enough to strafe, then they're also close enough to grenade for 40 dmg each (save 15).

FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 9:39:27 AM
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In my game, with the Jedi about 6 away from the Siblings, and with the Wookiees about 6 behind the Jedi (~12 from the Siblings but in different directions), the Siblings had a tough decision. If they go out & back, they get back to the bodyguard but just hit the Jedi and one wookiee. And the Jedi are close enough that they can get to the Speeder. If they do a big run and hit multiple wookiees, they don't actually kill the wookiees, have no bodyguard, and still are in range of the Jedi. With the extra Push from Force Attuned, Ven does 80dmg even without the CE granting Triple. And Satele does significant damage, too, but it varies widely depending on whether she can base someone with Intuition or has to hit someone on the move, and depending whether she gets Cunning. But she's 30-80dmg without Triple. The Jedi were able to wear down the Siblings in two rounds. 60 of it was from pushes, which can't go to the bodyguard.

The opportunity for a big Cunning run doesn't happen until the start of round 5, assuming OR keeps a door closed at the end of round 1. Bastila turns on top of round 2. (Even if Rebels win init, first activation would have to open a door.) That lasts through round 3, and OR out-activates. If the Siblings are still alive, Bastila can keep it on at the end of round 3 to last through the end of round 4. If Siblings are already defeated by the end of round 3, she can wait to turn ABM on at the top of round 4 to get 2 rounds out of it (possibly giving Rebels 1 activation without ABM if they win init).

Not an easy win either direction, and I do think if I played thereisnotry I'd lose. But I think that's the case whether I was playing OR or Rebels. :-)
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