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jen'ari
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 4:03:17 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 2,098
TimmerB123 wrote:


The fun thing about absolute statements is that all you need to do is come up with one example where it doesn't apply then it makes the entire statement false.


Absolutes like "Never" and "No exceptions" and "regardless"??
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 4:15:37 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 2,098
you know GG,

I would like for you to make a statement like that but direct it towards Caedus. He was venomous from the start.
He just happens to be an authority of sorts over this event and is, somehow, now the victim when in fact he is the "perpetrator". Which, if he would have asked people if it was ok first and got responses before making a call that would have been fine.
I would have said, "No, because of Round 2 auto losses." but it would have made sense to ask people for permission.

General_Grievous
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 4:57:39 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 1/8/2010
Posts: 3,623
Jen man, you've got an anger issue brother, turn away from the dark side. Someone else's actions or words towards you doesn't excuse mistreating that person or others. Same goes for all of us. And there are people that no doubt mistreat others too, yourself included and they may feel justified just as you do based on whatever reasons they feel they have. But there is never a good reason to attack someone else. And that's why I said everyone hug it out not just Jen'ari. And like I said I would have had your back and supported the rules as laid out if you had brought it up in a peaceable way and said it bothered you and then stayed peaceable. The message may have been correct and valid but the presentation and execution is all wrong. Calling people liars, cheaters and pathetic is not the way to win support. Nor is going after every other peacemaker that tries to resolve the issue. Pull an Obi-Wan and take the high ground even when you feel others aren't reciprocating, and then stay there regardless of how people are acting. We can be out-voted or feel outcasted but as soon as you embody, embrace and become the injustice and evil you are claiming to stand against, you lose all credibility and posistion.

We can only control our own actions and responses, and very very rarely does internet posting wars change anyone's mind. But it's too late to rewind the clock and we are where we are so the best thing we can do is forgive and move on, on all sides. So will you be the first to apologize and walk away or will you keep embracing anger and your perceived injustice over grace, compassion and respect?

For my part sorry I missed the start of this where I hopefully could have talked everyone down and kept it from going this far. There were valid points on all sides and I understand how you felt disrespected, singled-out and wronged. And despite your presentation people shouldn't have responded to you your initial complaints how they did. But we can only control our own responses so again what will you choose to do?
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 5:59:07 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 2,098
I do apologize about the pathetic part. I should not have called him pathetic. I should have said his decision was pathetic. but I do not apologize for speaking truth (liar, cheater)

I find this as a gross abuse of power and authority. I play this game when i can because I like it. That was taken away, because he got mad that someone was pissed at him. I was offended by his lack of judgement in making a decision that is not his to make, it is not like it wasn't spell out for him. I used the rules that he made and the words that he wrote. HE KNEW he was wrong he just did it anyway. Which should not be allowed.

I guess I am Rorschach.
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 6:10:46 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 2,098
General_Grievous wrote:
The message may have been correct and valid but the presentation and execution is all wrong. Calling people liars, cheaters and pathetic is not the way to win support.


Here is the heart of the issue I am having.

You all do not like my presentation... it was really bad.

but the message was correct..

Caedus message was wrong and his presentation was always wrong (his presentation was the first wrong presentation I might add).

I guess I do not see it.

Truth is truth no matter who says it. Satan himself can declare truth and it still be truth and it has to be accepted as true.

Caedus is a liar, truth.
Caedus is a cheater, truth.

Caedus does not have the right to go against the rules he set, truth.

Caedus has abused his power, truth.

People blame me for the mess, truth.

I am not the initial one who did something wrong, truth.

I am the only one being called out directly by any one else, truth.

Lose lose situation for me while everyone else pats their back on how well they supported Caedus and his pathetic decision to cheat and then his pathetic decision to expel me from the tournament.
General_Grievous
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 6:51:57 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 1/8/2010
Posts: 3,623
Jen dude, many of your statements are correct at least from my point of view. Though I truly don't believe that Caedus in this instance is trying to cheat and since no one from previous rounds asked for an extension we don't have anything to compare it too. But I truly believe that he would have let anyone else that asked for an extension extend, not because he's a liar or cheater as you say but do to grace over rules. Which is something I have had to do as an organizer and understand. But it should have been brought up to the group to decide and if someone isn't ok with it, which you obviously weren't, then it should have been stuck to the timelines.

But man your presentation to it just Caedus but everyone that has tried to calmly speak up is the issue here and what got you removed from the tournament. I don't want to go through the last six pages and copy and paste every time you talked down to someone but I hope you read your words and ask yourself if they are motivated by justice and wanting to be right or by compassion and care for your fellow players. Then ask yourself which one is more important and why.

Finally it comes down to grace over justice every time. Again having been in Caedus's shoes I don't believe his intent was malevolent or driven by lying or cheating, but let's say that it was. If I walk up to drug addict that stole money, smoked up and is cursing me out (something I often have to do in my job) and start yelling at that person that they are a thief, a drug abuser, vulgar person and pathetic. All things which may be true, then what am I accomplishing? If that person truly is those things do you not think that they and everyone else can see it as well? Even if that person had authority over or had wronged me does it make mistreating them correct? But instead I speak calmly to them, ignore their insults, help treat them and love on them and show them respect. And even if they don't learn from it or change their ways it does two things. One is help show others a compassionate Christ-like example for them to follow and help mold the kind of respectful world I want to live in. And secondly it's the truly right thing to do, not what feels just to me, but what is actually right. The correcr path is almost always the harder to choose and then harder still to walk.

Also good of you to start apologizing and hopefully you keep on doing it and others return the favour to you. But let's stop the name calling, be respectful and move on with our lives.
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 7:41:39 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 2,098
Grace will not come if it is unjust to do so.
Which it is in this case in my opinion.

Grace is not given to everyone. That would be unjust to those working diligently.

I work with rough individuals as well and I am one of the best at holding my tongue and being patient. In fact I have awards for being so. I am the lead behavior specialist in my school and often times discuss patience and when patience is not a good thing.

Caedus's actions do not warrant patience or long suffering. He is wrong and should not have the positive reinforcers of moral support from others at the very least. He should have a negative consequence as well.

God works in a similar way. He uses positive reinforcers and negative consequences to teach and build.

This grace line of thought is just a way to continue to allow others to do what they want. Same thing with Set 16 design. People will just do what they want.
Others will be long suffering, not speak up and think "things will work out" and it really won't work out.
I think people are just forgetting that special Spider-Man line
"with great power comes great responsibility"
Caedus had the power and ZERO responsibility.

Who can help create accountability for Caedus? well those that are "under his boot". but instead te community is just giving him a bigger boot, knowing that they are protected. (except spryguy, who is never squashed, but left in the cold all the time).

So, I get where you are saying that we should analayze ourselves and make sure we are in the right. and I was "getting even" after he expelled me from the tournament. I just do not really feel that bad about it especially after the little "threat" he put in there came out. Some of it was just to egg him on a bitHe is wrong and the community is on the wrong side of history (again)
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 7:54:29 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 2,098
General_Grievous wrote:


But man your presentation to it just Caedus but everyone that has tried to calmly speak up is the issue here and what got you removed from the tournament.



I don't relaly remember being rude to anyone else.

@red why is that the case? why is my presentation the only issue?

If Caedus is in the wrong it should be 2 issues. If you think my presentation is the bigger issue, fine. But there is still the issue that Caedus is wrong.
He is also wrong to expel me for calling calling him out for his hypocrisy. Hypocrisy in a tournament judge cannot be left alone if you want any level of respectability.

Why do we have rules if the moderator can change them to one person and doesn't change them for another?

Why do we allow special treatment for some but not others?

Why didn't any one care about spryguy's situation?

Just because you don't care if rules are followed or others get special treatment doens't mean that is the right way to think about the situation.
Darth_Frenchy
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 8:36:34 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 8/29/2017
Posts: 278
Props to Caedus for putting on this event and putting up with all of us! Lol The only way I see him cheating is if he took away his round 3 loss when he repaired, but he is an honorable guy so he didn't do that.

Truth be told, I didn't read the tournament rules and I didn't know about the game cancellations other than Mike and Richards. Which could have been avoided if one person had messaged Richard on Facebook. I normally do when the rounds start, but I have been out of the country.

Anywho, I told Caedus I could play my game in Paris if the deadline ended before I got back, but didn't want to look rude to my girlfriend's family... And download Vassal on her mom's computer. FML Thankfully being the gracious person he is, he said I could have an extra day or two.

And I guarantee that if Spry or Deathsbaine had asked for an extension they would have gotten it. Because that is the type of person Caedus is.
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 8:45:48 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 2,098
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA that is just so adorable.

grooming at its finest.

Frenchy you did know the rules. and you did ask for special treatment. Just face it, you are a troll.

Spryguy could have asked, but he followed the rules. same as Deaths_Baine.

stop trying to make it look like you weren't being coddled.

you were and still are being coddled.

A man would not ask for favors. Welfare state has gotten into bloomilk.

Asking for a hand out hahahaha, for being on vacation hahaha

not even a real reason like a death of a friend's mom or extenuating circumstances.

You are seriously trying to say that it is their fault for not asking?!? thats asinine.

Fact is that if Caedus would have given an extension to those with an actual reason others could still be upset that he is not following the rules. At least they have a valid reason and it is way more understanding.

What you are really saying is this

"thanks Caedus for giving me the opportunity of an extension, even though it is against the rules, it was not allowed in ROund 2, and you made a "hard rule with no exceptions". I really appreciate the special treatment, I "might" need it.
Darth_Frenchy
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 9:13:30 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 8/29/2017
Posts: 278
Wtf, you are rediculous, not a man? Talking about the giant mole hill!! XD it's a tournament with like 16 people, with casual squads and a game that hasn't been made in like what? 8 years? Lol

Calm Down Jenny XD
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 9:17:44 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 2,098
Darth_Frenchy wrote:
Wtf, you are rediculous, not a man? Talking about the giant mole hill!! XD it's a tournament with like 16 people, without a tier 1 squad and a game that hasn't been made in like what? 8 years? Lol

Calm Down Jenny XD


I take asking for hands out pretty seriously when it gives one an unfair advantage. (aka cheating).

I'd rather lose than cheat. I'd rather lose than ask for an unfair advantage.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 11:02:36 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,407
gandalfthegreatestwizard wrote:
Well, you did say anyone...

The rules definitely said no exceptions to the deadline of 10 days for games. Does Caedus have the authority to change/ waive the rules? If yes, then fine. If no, probably not the best thing to have done. However, it doesn't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things, and jen'ari and Deaths_Baine have been extremely offensive and unjust in their criticisms.


The TO is the President, Congress, and Supreme Court of the tournament. Except for disputes in games he's playing, in which case someone else is designated as the Supreme Court. Anyone unwilling to accept that shouldn't enter.
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 11:06:13 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 2,098
He is not the Supreme Court.

He gets to set the laws (legislative) and enfore the laws (Executive), but he does not get to determine if a law is just or not. He does that before the tournament starts (judicial).

Once the tournament starts anyway.


If he could it just sets it up for that person to cheat without anyone being able to do anything about it. Which would have been the case here.

Referees are bound by the rules that are set. He set the rules himself and is bound by them. There is simply no way any rational competitor would allow the organizer to be able to do whatever he wants.

People that enter the tournament do so after reading the rules and making a decision based on what is stated.

I doubt I would have entered if he said "there is ahard rule with no exceptions, except Frenchy". everyone would have questioned what the heck that was about.

For instance, if it had said doors are locked I would not have joined. I would have left it alone. But it was in the rules prior to the tournament.

Rules are for a reason. He created the rules to be followed, as he did perfectly Round 1 and 2.
Darth_Frenchy
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 2:01:06 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 8/29/2017
Posts: 278
Note to self, make the next tournament have mandatory doors locked. Got it!! XD
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 2:39:14 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 2,098
Ya that would be one way to keep me away Frenchy.
Just another tactic to have things your way.

You are a very selfish/self-serving and unthoughtful individual.
Darth_Frenchy
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 3:08:29 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 8/29/2017
Posts: 278
I litterally don't know where you find your high horse, lol. You slander all the people that have done a ton for the community and the game when you have done little to nothing. Oh wait, you play tested one set until you didn't get your way and quit XD. Apparently grooming is sticking up for your friends when there's an internet troll? The I guess I am guilty.

Your pathetic, you push, slander, prod, troll and then when you get a negative reaction you play the victim? Lmao so sad, grow up...
AceAce
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 4:40:57 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 8/26/2008
Posts: 587
Location: Kokomo, IN
Honestly, it seems like Jenari is carrying on a conversation with himself. No one really gives much of a crap what he thinks, but blast it he keeps talking hoping someone will. The fact it, Shawn is a good dude running a casual tournament. Let's be serious and forget the agenda bull hockey. It is a free tournament with no prizes and I am sure he could care the less who wins. Either play and enjoy the fact that you are playing a game you enjoy with like minded people or just leave or quit as no one will really care if you choose the latter but will be glad to have you if you choose the former.
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 5:09:42 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 2,098
@frenchy.
Not trying to be a victim, I can see where you see that. I just want people to call Caedus out for his stupid decision that's all.
Just recognize that he is wrong to have made that choice. (Cheating choice that is)
Not like I am asking to be back in or anything. I just don't like being the only one who ever does anything wrong around here.

That gets pretty old. Especially when I happen to be right, which is the majority of the time.

The ol' haven't done much for the community thing. I was playing before you, the TN guys have tried, but no one really wanted to make any changes for us. We were pretty strong and getting stronger. 11 strong at one point. Does after set 6 shenanigans an then a second death happened and we are down to 3 with occasional 7-8 that come back to play.

But fact is that there is no room for any one else other than group that is left.
Hutts, dd, frenchy, urbans, flying arrow that's really it these days. Others do things but are not really involved.
You guys like the way things are, I don't.

Reality is is that we don't mesh. You guys are unwilling to compromise at all. You don't care about other people. Unkarr plutt, the crap coming out in 16.
If someone gets fired up about it you all duck and cover until support arrives.
Then you all groom eachother back to help.
It's really quite sweet the way you all form little gangs. I am glad I have played a small part in bringing you all together, I guess. Seems to be less shadow games these days.

But that might just be because any one that fights against you you all just beat down with nastiness. You all pretend like I am nasty. The things I say are nice compared to the things you all say being people back. Especially poor spryguy, who keeps licking at your feet in loyalty just to ignored.

Well said aceace. (Except I can't play I was expelled hahaha and caedus is nice to those that kids his butt) but other than that nicely said

With that I am off the thread. No reason to be on it now anyway
DarkDracul
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 5:30:05 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 4/18/2008
Posts: 1,048
Location: Kokomo
Caedus is the sanctioned SWMGAMERS T.O. and Head Judge for this event. He has TOTAL authority to run it as he sees fit. Organizers and Judges require the freedom to make onsite decisions as things don't always go perfectly "by the book" in tournaments.

Caedus invested a lot of time and effort in setting up this tournament and establishing how it should run.
For instance, one "rule" was that all players be fully registered before 8:00 pm EST on Sunday, March 25th.
However, by the established deadline only seven players had officially registered for the event.

Instead of "sticking to the rule" Caedus allowed additional time to register and worked to recruit additional players.
He even stated on SHNN that to increase numbers he might allow more flexibility for players to get their games in. Darth_Frenchy discussed his travel situation with Caedus prior to the event and again before the round in question.

Caedus reached out and convinced players apprehensive about participating in this event due to; vassal inexperience, personal situations, or being in another country, to sign up. He got a first time vassal player to join. He got more Kiwis to join. He got last years champ to join, despite travel plans. Caedus got these tournament numbers to jump from 7 players to 16 players.

Should he have edited and retyped the posted rules all over again? . . . NO screw that! The man is doing enough to bring us a great tournament already. He deserves our gratitude and respect and NOT to be called a liar or a cheat. Insulting or threatening a T.O /Judge is "major" unsportsmanlike conduct and should result in disqualification from the event.

I've said it several times on SHNN but I'll say it again here, I think Caedus is doing a phenomenal job running this tournament and I greatly appreciate him.
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