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swinefeld
Posted: Thursday, July 5, 2018 8:32:10 PM
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jen'ari wrote:
I'm just waiting for ghosts to be able to collect Gambit.


That hasn't been allowed since Light Spirit debuted, or at least was clarified. Glossary snip:
"This character cannot score victory points for occupying specified areas in scenarios that include such victory conditions." Scenarios generally meaning tournament rules, in this case, though there could be others.

Adjacent is not a "range". You don't count squares to adjacent characters. Is there any ability that says 'within 1 square'? (Even if so, it wouldn't change Spirits not collecting gambit, as it's hard-coded into the ability)
droidadmiral
Posted: Friday, July 6, 2018 7:43:44 AM
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what about the hero with no fear? he looks intense
donnyrides
Posted: Friday, July 6, 2018 8:35:04 AM
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kas'im, sith-blademaster

I like My Kas'im, Sith Blademaster from 4/20/2016 better. You guys know Darth Bane Killed Kas'im right? kind of an odd CE.

I do love that you made this character though, he is a really cool character in the books. Good choice.
DarkDracul
Posted: Friday, July 6, 2018 6:15:34 PM
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donnyrides wrote:
kas'im, sith-blademaster

I like My Kas'im, Sith Blademaster from 4/20/2016 better. You guys know Darth Bane Killed Kas'im right? kind of an odd CE.

I do love that you made this character though, he is a really cool character in the books. Good choice.


That's cool, we all got our own concepts for characters. Heck, there's multiple versions of characters in our game.
Our team wanted to represent Kas'im as Bane's Master and the Sith Academy lightsaber instructor, "Blademaster."

As far as the CE, Bane's biggest weaknesses in the game is getting shot to pieces. So as a game-mechanic, Kas'im handing out Soresu made good sense. It also fit thematically as you may recall from the novel, Kas'im gave Bane a special lightsaber in which Bane specifically had to practice Soresu to become better at deflecting blaster bolts.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Curved-hilt_lightsaber/Legends
This hilt design was not limited to Form II; its advantages in dueling carried over to every form including Form V, as in the case of Darth Bane, when Sith Blademaster Kas'im gave him the weapon of his later master.[1]
Unfortunately, curved-hilt lightsabers were generally more difficult to use in blaster-bolt deflection. However, Darth Bane had been able to compensate for such weaknesses, parrying blaster bolts fired by six Sith mercenaries on Ruusan.[5]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Bane/Legends
He was skilled in Soresu, and taught his apprentice Darth Zannah Form III to complement her petite physical frame.[5] In his later years, Darth Bane's speed was such that he was able to deflect torrents of rain with his lightsaber.[2]
DarkDracul
Posted: Saturday, July 7, 2018 4:41:41 PM
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Updated Top Post:
Resistance Captain; Rose Tico; Rey & Kylo, Force Bonded Allies, Luke Skywalker of Ahch-To
jen'ari
Posted: Monday, July 9, 2018 11:58:41 AM
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Questions about kylo and Rey. I guess it will not do anything to go on a rant about how absurdly unthematic and misrepresented it is.
So here are a few questions.

Snoke can dark master Rey, even though Rey resisted him as much as possible and even "made" it so he wanted her dead, why is she able to be dark mastered?
Rey can be in a first order army, what made the designers think this was even fathomable?
Kylo Ren can be in an army with resistance Han and Leia, why?

Why was Rey being able to be imperial allowed? Kylo Ren the sworn enemy of the resistance can be a resistance character, why?

What does acrobatic represent? In both movies we did not see that many acrobatics. What does force repulse represent?
What does spinning blade attack represent?
shmi15
Posted: Monday, July 9, 2018 1:48:15 PM
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I've been wondering the same thing about this... This is a completely botched piece imo. And anarchist? Rey was selling training... What's anarchist about that? Much much confusion over this piece
gandalfthegreatestwizard
Posted: Monday, July 9, 2018 2:37:51 PM
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jen'ari wrote:
Questions about kylo and Rey. I guess it will not do anything to go on a rant about how absurdly unthematic and misrepresented it is.
So here are a few questions.

Snoke can dark master Rey, even though Rey resisted him as much as possible and even "made" it so he wanted her dead, why is she able to be dark mastered?
Rey can be in a first order army, what made the designers think this was even fathomable?
Kylo Ren can be in an army with resistance Han and Leia, why?

Why was Rey being able to be imperial allowed? Kylo Ren the sworn enemy of the resistance can be a resistance character, why?

What does acrobatic represent? In both movies we did not see that many acrobatics. What does force repulse represent?
What does spinning blade attack represent?


shmi15 wrote:
I've been wondering the same thing about this... This is a completely botched piece imo. And anarchist? Rey was selling training... What's anarchist about that? Much much confusion over this piece

It's a game. Cade Skywalker and Maz Kanata can be in a squad with Revan. This is definitely not the weirdest interaction and I'm not sure why you're going after it.
shmi15
Posted: Monday, July 9, 2018 2:57:27 PM
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gandalfthegreatestwizard wrote:
jen'ari wrote:
Questions about kylo and Rey. I guess it will not do anything to go on a rant about how absurdly unthematic and misrepresented it is.
So here are a few questions.

Snoke can dark master Rey, even though Rey resisted him as much as possible and even "made" it so he wanted her dead, why is she able to be dark mastered?
Rey can be in a first order army, what made the designers think this was even fathomable?
Kylo Ren can be in an army with resistance Han and Leia, why?

Why was Rey being able to be imperial allowed? Kylo Ren the sworn enemy of the resistance can be a resistance character, why?

What does acrobatic represent? In both movies we did not see that many acrobatics. What does force repulse represent?
What does spinning blade attack represent?


shmi15 wrote:
I've been wondering the same thing about this... This is a completely botched piece imo. And anarchist? Rey was selling training... What's anarchist about that? Much much confusion over this piece

It's a game. Cade Skywalker and Maz Kanata can be in a squad with Revan. This is definitely not the weirdest interaction and I'm not sure why you're going after it.


Because this piece, was designed with the intention of it being used in both factions. Fringe are Fringe. Hired to help whoever. Since SWM does not focuse on timelines, were stuck with interactions like that, and I can deal with that, because it's reasonable. But to design a piece, where the 2 characters are literally fighting a war against each other, and never, not once, not even for a second, did either of them help the others faction for a cause. Your arguing apples to oranges. Kylo never worked with the first order. He is actually the villain the first order is trying to defeat. Rey is the hero of the resistance, fighting against the first order, whom she hates. So please, I am open to hearing anything. This piece is as far away from being anywhere close to thematic. And I'm curious as to why the designers choose this route. Most of the abilities don't reflect either character, so it looks like a designer said " I want a Rey/Kylo piece, do I'm gonna make it no matter what".
gandalfthegreatestwizard
Posted: Monday, July 9, 2018 3:09:29 PM
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Anakin wasn't a master of Soresu style. Yet Ani/Obi has SSM. Yoda didn't have a lightsaber in the OT, yet Loda can attack. On a mini which represents two characters, you can have attributes specific to one of them. Hence, Resistance and First Order (though FO is dubious).
What would be your ideal faction/ subfaction for this character?
droidadmiral
Posted: Monday, July 9, 2018 3:19:16 PM
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Ummmm nonexistent no reason for them to be a combo piece.
shmi15
Posted: Monday, July 9, 2018 3:54:52 PM
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gandalfthegreatestwizard wrote:
Anakin wasn't a master of Soresu style. Yet Ani/Obi has SSM. Yoda didn't have a lightsaber in the OT, yet Loda can attack. On a mini which represents two characters, you can have attributes specific to one of them. Hence, Resistance and First Order (though FO is dubious).
What would be your ideal faction/ subfaction for this character?



So, let me get this straight. Your defending a bad piece... By saying there are other bad pieces designed poorly, so it makes this one ok? Am I understanding this correctly?

And yes, no faction, because they should not exist. You should not design a piece who never was involved with a faction. Would you make a Sith Mace Windu?

Just because something has happened before in this game doesn't mean it should happen again.

Do you want another sub faction of vehicles made?
gandalfthegreatestwizard
Posted: Monday, July 9, 2018 4:10:43 PM
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No, you don't have it straight. I'm saying that those other duo characters were well-designed and fine, and so is this one.
You didn't answer my question. Considering that this card representing these characters exists, as it obviously does, what faction do you think it should be in? A Sith Mace is completely different- Mace was obviously not a Sith, but Rey was a part of the Resistance (NR in this game) and Kylo was a servant of the First Order (Imperial in this game) except arguably during this scene.
shmi15
Posted: Monday, July 9, 2018 4:20:00 PM
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gandalfthegreatestwizard wrote:
No, you don't have it straight. I'm saying that those other duo characters were well-designed and fine, and so is this one.
You didn't answer my question. Considering that this card representing these characters exists, as it obviously does, what faction do you think it should be in? A Sith Mace is completely different- Mace was obviously not a Sith, but Rey was a part of the Resistance (NR in this game) and Kylo was a servant of the First Order (Imperial in this game) except arguably during this scene.


I wouldn't of made this piece, and it would not exist in this game. In no scenario that you can give me would I say, let's make a Kylo/Rey piece. I would've designed them separately, within their factions.
jen'ari
Posted: Monday, July 9, 2018 4:39:58 PM
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gandalfthegreatestwizard wrote:
No, you don't have it straight. I'm saying that those other duo characters were well-designed and fine, and so is this one.
You didn't answer my question. Considering that this card representing these characters exists, as it obviously does, what faction do you think it should be in? A Sith Mace is completely different- Mace was obviously not a Sith, but Rey was a part of the Resistance (NR in this game) and Kylo was a servant of the First Order (Imperial in this game) except arguably during this scene.

(If they are to exist)
I think they should be fringe. Rey was, as far as movies go, not a huge part of the resistance. She just defied Luke. She is more anti first order than pro resistance imo (possibly, but it could also be that we just haven't seen much of her in the resistance).

Kylo just killed the leader of first order. Kind of anti snoke at least. They are fighting not knowing exactly where they are each thinking the other could be turned. Rey was not adamant about being on the light imo. So it's still a stretch but fringe had quite a few stretches

You have a point in ani-kin. I complained that if you took the ani-kin and just named it Kenobi it would be a perfect kenobi. There is literally nothing in the piece that is Anakin Skywalker. It is just obi-wan.
I love 4-lom zuckuss. I did say it is odd that it has a force and is a Droid, but that is reasonable imo.

But this is something else. This, to me, goes against the very core of Rey and Kylo (who was trying to use Rey).
This is the equivalent of making a Count Dooku - Obi-wan Kenobi (Canon) piece because they worked together one time and making the piece Republic with something for Separatist.

I guess I just kind of want to understand why they thought Rey could be an imperial and Kylo can be a resistance fighter.
gandalfthegreatestwizard
Posted: Monday, July 9, 2018 5:05:16 PM
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jen'ari wrote:
(If they are to exist)
I think they should be fringe. Rey was, as far as movies go, not a huge part of the resistance. She just defied Luke. She is more anti first order than pro resistance imo (possibly, but it could also be that we just haven't seen much of her in the resistance).

Kylo just killed the leader of first order. Kind of anti snoke at least. They are fighting not knowing exactly where they are each thinking the other could be turned. Rey was not adamant about being on the light imo. So it's still a stretch but fringe had quite a few stretches

You have a point in ani-kin. I complained that if you took the ani-kin and just named it Kenobi it would be a perfect kenobi. There is literally nothing in the piece that is Anakin Skywalker. It is just obi-wan.
I love 4-lom zuckuss. I did say it is odd that it has a force and is a Droid, but that is reasonable imo.

But this is something else. This, to me, goes against the very core of Rey and Kylo (who was trying to use Rey).
This is the equivalent of making a Count Dooku - Obi-wan Kenobi (Canon) piece because they worked together one time and making the piece Republic with something for Separatist.

I guess I just kind of want to understand why they thought Rey could be an imperial and Kylo can be a resistance fighter.


Yeah, but while Fringe may be thematic for them, it isn't for the squads they can go in. Suddenly they can not only go in NR and Imperial squads, but also in Mandos, Seps, Vong, OR and Sith. None of those are thematic; at least them being Imperial/ NR restricts them to the correct era and mostly with characters they were in the movies with. While not perfect, NR/ Imperial is imo the best solution if they are to exist. It was probably inevitable that they were going to be made anyway, so I'm happy with this representation.

I think you're right about ObiKin. Teamwork and Large base are probably the only things that indicate Anakin is supposed to be there. I guess that's because it was made to perform a certain function for gameplay rather than theme.

I don't think Reylo is on the same level as a theoretical Dookuwan. Dooku and Obi-wan just aren't an iconic duo- and the Reylo scene in TLJ was many people's favourite scene, and was pretty important to the movie.

Resistance and First Order on the character was probably just an attempt to get them into more squads- Anarchist removes most synergy they have, so squads with them are hard to build. It means they can play with the characters they were in the movie with, which is probably more thematic than playing with characters that are from different canons or timelines.
jen'ari
Posted: Monday, July 9, 2018 5:48:29 PM
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I think the biggest issue theme wise is not the faction as much as the Special Abilities "first order" and "resistance" that make it more odd.

with that aside, what does spinning blade attack and acrobatics represent?
shmi15
Posted: Monday, July 9, 2018 6:26:49 PM
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jen'ari wrote:
I think the biggest issue theme wise is not the faction as much as the Special Abilities "first order" and "resistance" that make it more odd.

with that aside, what does spinning blade attack and acrobatics represent?


And force repulse. And anarchist...


And I will not say they should be friends, because they should not exist. If I were on this design team, and this was proposed, my answer would just be no. No discussion, just a no. That's how ignorant it is to have them. It's just as bad as aSith Bastila! And a msndalorian Kenobi!
jen'ari
Posted: Monday, July 9, 2018 6:43:26 PM
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droidadmiral wrote:
what about the hero with no fear? he looks intense

Ya, but that attack rating should keep him not able to be abuse I think. But some crazy distance with r2 and swap in the faction.
But shmi Skywalker might see some time (double twin ripostes!) And some Obi-wan Anakin combos couple be fun.
I like the piece.
Is another option for that 28-35 cost spot (aayla secura seasonings holds) Serra keto, cin, obi that grants extra, and this Anakin would cost. 174 ish. 26 left for filler could be fun.

I like it because it is another option for a Jedi in Republic.
shmi15
Posted: Monday, July 9, 2018 7:19:45 PM
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gandalfthegreatestwizard wrote:





I think you're right about ObiKin. Teamwork and Large base are probably the only things that indicate Anakin is supposed to be there. I guess that's because it was made to perform a certain function for gameplay rather than theme.

[/quote]


Just a post or 2 earlier you told me this character was made well, and you had no issues... But now your conceding that its actually not accurate, and not a good representation of the 2 characters, but more a representation of Obi-Wan.

I think WOTC made 1 character who had 2 people? Loda? I could be wrong if someone wants to fact check it for me. But if a game with a bunch of issues, decided to stop doing something... Don't you think the V-sets should steer away from it as well? Its a red flag when WOTC considers it a problem... And a bigger red flag when the V-set designers think its not a problem.
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