Dude, seriously, defending yourself isn't necessary or relevant right now, topic is closed and you keep bringing it up.

What's done is done. You want to address it do it in PMs. Perpetuating a sore topic to solely benefit you when no one is throwing the blame on you is unnecessary.

Ken,
I didn't feel the need to talk with Dean about this incident. He may be upset, but it was his perception of what Mickey posted that was wrong, and then it escalated from there. I don't think very many people, other than those that seem to always find something critical of them or others in a lot of posts, took what Mickey wrote as defaming Dean. He asked a lot of questions based on his perception of how things work and was berated for it.

It could have been handled a lot differently, probably by both sides. But I agree with Mickey in that it seems ridiculous that members of this community have to continually walk on eggshells around others because of their position in the community. I've been around long enough to have seen this more than once and in other forums this community frequents (and I find it interesting that these issues seem to continually involve a lot of the same people).

Yes, Dean does a lot for the community and takes a lot of abuse, and I would agree with Joel that it seems to have increased in the last year. I would assume that to be based on his job in the community. He'll never make everyone happy, and I'm certain he realizes this, and I'm sure he does what he thinks is best for the game, but people are going to disagree with him. And that's OK. It's fairly obvious that we have some very opinionated people around here, and it seems that they are not afraid to express those opinions. I'm certain that Dean realizes this as well and I would hope he takes that into consideration when responding to posts. He's an intelligent man, and I would hope he understands that not everyone is out to slight him (although I realize there are a few), they sometimes truly just don't understand.

The point of my post above, and the entirety of this thread started by Juice Man, was that everyone should be a little more courteous around here. That includes the people who have been elevated to leadership positions in the community. In my opinion the best way to start is for the (mature!) adults around here to stop reading negative connotations into other peoples posts. In all the conversations I've been involved with on these forums and others this practice of assuming what someone is saying has never led to a good outcome. To reiterate what I said above, a simple post or PM asking if you're understanding them correctly takes just as long and just as much effort to type as an insult does.

And although I am sad to see Dean go, I'd be just as sad to see Mickey go. Each member, and their opinion, are just as valuable.

Never goes down that way though

The problem is not in expressing the opinion itself. It's how you hold on to that opinion. the thought that "alot of the DCI changes are discussed and decided at GenCon" (emphasis added by me), is ludicrous, and it didn't matter if it's an opinion or not, it was out right not true. And when Dean or others tried to explain that it was untrue, you (and others) weren't willing to listen.

THAT is what gets people upset and offended. When you take a personal opinion, and assume it is truth, even when the actual parties involved are telling you otherwise.

90% of the proposed changes for the January DCI update were discussed AT LENGTH BEFORE GenCon. Heck, the slow play issues have been discussed for a couple years now. The map issue was something that Dean was already WELL aware of before the DCI change in June, but he's said multiple times that he was afraid of the backlash if he recommended to ban GOWK and several of the newer maps all at the same time. He chose to let the community find out for itself how bad some of those new maps were.

To tie back into courtesy, we all have to be willing to lay aside our opinions and TRUST people when they tell us what really goes on.

It's simply a matter of people wanting to feel like their opinions are important, and wanting to be right. If we stop worrying about who is right, and just concern ourselves with what is right for the game, then everything will work out a lot better.

and yet here we are again, expressing our opinions.
is this going to be a "whos opinion is more valid" thread?
seriously, this is weak.
and as i said yesterday in the closed thread that a MOD made, i will not use the names of other members in any discussion that does not involve them.
Bill, i expect that same *COURTESY*
Mickeys post was picked apart, and it wast even a "call out" as most have claim to be.
In your post you just put up, you "inferred" to me as a referance, and then dropped my name. that is not *COURTEOUS* to do things like that.
your post is not like mickeys at all, and you are still going on about this is redundant. its over.
I am so done with fighting with you and the rest of your crew. in the beginning, it angered me on how you treated others, but now, it just dissapoints me. no matter what, you will never see eye to eye with anyone who disagrees with you, no matter how minor or major the subject.
to me, its picking to pick.
to make a valid point, you have to it on equal footing with everyone else.
you cannot think that you can pull out all of the stops, get under peoples skin intentionally, to get a rise out of them, and think that people are going to be quiet about it.
Mickey owes no one an apology. NO ONE!
and if someone thinks that they deserve an apology, humble yourself, and realize that if someone wants to give you one, they would.
requesting apologies is "asinine", and lacks humility.
and please, dont do the comparison thing anymore with members, its unbecoming and quite childish, after all, arent we talking about *COURTESY* here?

Quite simply, Mando, put me on ignore.

So stop fighting, and rather, listen.

Defending themselves should not get a rise out of anyone.

Requesting an apology is not arrogant, it is requesting that mistakes are noted, and made up for.

I still don't see where Mickey's original post was offensive at all. No where in that post did he say, or even infer, that Dean wasn't doing his job. I've read it over again a few times today and I just don't see the problem with his questioning of how things work. The problem began when you and Dean read something horrible in to what he said and berated him for it. He simply didn't know how things work and asked a few questions. After reading the thread over again, his questions where never answered. So how is he supposed to change his perception of how things work when he's not told, politely? Quite frankly Bill, the facts where not there for everyone to read (unless you deleted them with the rest of your posts, but I don't recall.)

Why do people take this game waaaay to seriously???!?!??!?!
Really just chill, take a deep breath and calm down. Just like Juiceman said, its just a game. Has nothing really to do with life at all. I'm getting tired of the "he rated my squad a 1!" or "I dont like your opinion, so im gonna pout about it!" really just chill.
If you dont like the way people are acting just ask them nicely to stop and if they countinue to be jerks then just drop it. Is this really worth wasting your time(That should be spent with family and relatives because its Christmas time!!! woot)
Is it?
It really is sad at what this site has come to

Dean,
Thanks for posting.
The post in the separate thread is the one I'm referring to. Just reread it again, and there was nothing in that post that inferred you only talked to Gencon players about the floor rules. His only reference to Gencon was a suggestion about making changes in which maps we're able to play in DCI apply to Gencon only.

In fact what he asked is the same question I posed later in the thread that only received a quick reply from Sithborg. That question is basically how do rule changes come into being? I'm thoroughly confused on how it works, and I think I pay attention pretty good . I was under the impression, as I believe Mickey was from his original post in the other thread, that you were the head of the rules advisory committee made up of volunteers that formed this summer on the WOTC forums? Is that still how it works, or did the RAC not work out so well? I found an old link to the RAC website, and it didn't look like it was used much. If, or really if that's not the case, how does one go about suggesting a rule change other than just PM'ing you or a member of the RAC? Is there an "official" request form or something , or do the suggestions come about more from the conversations you and others have on the forums, in person, or stuff you just read over in the rules forums? Anyway, this is way off topic, if you want to answer in another thread that would be great, if not I understand. Thanks.

Sorry for derailing your thread Juice Man! At least it won't get moved, cause this is the off topic forum!