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Renegades and Rogues (contains spoilers for V-set 2. Full set list now up) Options
dreadtech
Posted: Sunday, April 3, 2011 1:04:53 PM
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Zombie_Jawa wrote:

CE:Characters in your squad named storm commando gain Shields 2 and Twin attack

If the purpose of the V-sets is to make older figures -or older pieces of plastic- more playable, why juice an already undercosted figure like the Storm Commando? Didn't the Atris experience teach us anything?

Every undercosted CE or character created only makes more characters obsolete. You can't fix a problem by creating one.


ZJ


I see your point. The Storm Commando is a very good cheap character which can gain from too many CE's already, However the problem is still more with the Storm Commando rather than the new character. I still think that this will really only be an issue in mass battles though, A problem yes a major problem for most players, not so much as it's only as much a problem as the Republic Commando's

As a mass battle player though myself, I would rather do without this character, but still i can live with it all the same.

The Vset's much like the WOTC sets are not going to have every character to everyone's liking. That's just the nature of the game and has been from the very first set, Rebel Storm.
swinefeld
Posted: Sunday, April 3, 2011 1:17:22 PM
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I can see how this could maybe get ugly in mass battle, but I suppose it depends on the rules you are playing, and if someone has piles of SCs and Speeder Bikes, which most people don't.

I have to agree with Sithborg's points though. (including the bold text)

Really, seems like good fun to me.
And I haven't heard anyone grousing about Lt. Page lately. Wink
shmi15
Posted: Sunday, April 3, 2011 2:46:19 PM
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I'm stoked the Gloomwalkers are in this set and I also hope for a Dessel piece.... What would be nice as well is (and I can't remember her name off hand) But the Bounty Hunter in the 3rd Bane Book, the one that served with Bane and ends up saving him and he returns the favor, that would be sweet to, just to give the Sith more shooters :) Estatic about the leaks so far tho, good work with this V-Set
Biggsy
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 12:02:29 AM
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Joined: 3/12/2009
Posts: 302
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Zombie_Jawa wrote:

CE:Characters in your squad named storm commando gain Shields 2 and Twin attack

If the purpose of the V-sets is to make older figures -or older pieces of plastic- more playable, why juice an already undercosted figure like the Storm Commando? Didn't the Atris experience teach us anything?

Every undercosted CE or character created only makes more characters obsolete. You can't fix a problem by creating one.


ZJ


Are you serious? Confused

I can't even remember when i last saw a Storm Commando being played. It's a good piece, but not nearly as good or undercosted as you imply. And i don't see it in any of the top imperial squads?!
General Weir will actually make me play them, at that is great because i've had a hard time trading for the ones i have. I will look forward to actually enjoy the piece for once.

As for Atris, yeah she's annoying, i'll give you that. But far from broken i think. She is a 41 point commander effect/sitting duck who's not really any good at fighting. My Bastila kicks her a## BigGrin

Wizards already escalated the game so that the majority of the early characters were obsolete, so that's kind of old news. At the release of MotF, how many of the old pieces did you play regularly?
The V-sets actually rotates some of those back into the game. Yes, it makes some other characters obsolete, but maybe next time they'll be the recommended minis for some entirely new stuff.
Also, no one is forcing anyone to use the V-sets. If you think it breaks the game, just play with the old pieces and have fun with that. I'll admit i was a little sceptical about it at first, but i really enjoy the new pieces. I think it keeps the game fresh.
jak
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 12:23:33 AM
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Location: Beggers Canyon Tatooine
Biggsy wrote:


Are you serious? Confused

I can't even remember when i last saw a Storm Commando being played. It's a good piece, but not nearly as good or undercosted as you imply. And i don't see it in any of the top imperial squads?!
General Weir will actually make me play them, at that is great because i've had a hard time trading for the ones i have. I will look forward to actually enjoy the piece for once.



I played 5 storm commandos Saturday in the squad I made for the current competition.

-Thrawn's Shadow Squad--
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
46 Noghri Commando x2
40 Disciple of Ragnos x2
18 Moff Nyna Calixte
85 Storm Commando x5
30 Stormtrooper Commander x2
26 Shadow Stormtrooper x2
18 Imperial Engineer x2
5 Imperial Dignitary

(300pts. 18 activations)

did pretty wellThumpUp
didn't lose a single commando, Weir, when released will make these guys scary good!Drool

for a 200 pt game try this: it's da Bomb

Sneaky --Thrawn's Shadow Squad--Sneaky
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
27 Lobot
21 General Veers
18 Moff Nyna Calixte
85 Storm Commando x5
8 Mas Amedda
5 Imperial Dignitary
4 Gran Raider

Preferred Reinforcements:
(Lobot) 8 R7 Astromech Droid
(Lobot) 12 Ugnaught Demolitionist x4

(200pts. 17 activations)
billiv15
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 1:51:08 AM
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jak wrote:
for a 200 pt game try this: it's da Bomb

Sneaky --Thrawn's Shadow Squad--Sneaky
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
27 Lobot
21 General Veers
18 Moff Nyna Calixte
85 Storm Commando x5
8 Mas Amedda
5 Imperial Dignitary
4 Gran Raider

Preferred Reinforcements:
(Lobot) 8 R7 Astromech Droid
(Lobot) 12 Ugnaught Demolitionist x4

(200pts. 17 activations)


Just hope you don't face a lancer, double lancer, pawned double lancer, yoda on kybuck, Bastilla Shan JM, High defense Jedi (Imperial/Atris, Republic GOWK, Atris or both, OR Jedi/Atris), Jaster/Mando Scouts, Mandalore the Redeemer/Mando Scouts, Nom/Bomb/melee mix, pure Melee Vong/Yammosk or any evading NR/Rebel squads and this should do fine. All of those unfortunately, can beat your SC superstealth squad in 200 to varying degrees from 60% to 100% of the time.

Storm Commandos are not top tier. They are marginally competitive in the current meta (pre-DotF meta especially thanks to no Yoda/Rebel/Lancer counters), as a single piece added as a purely inexpensive support piece. As a group, they are not even tier 2. I understand everyone will not like every piece, but SCs haven't ever made it close to the top 8 at Gencon, heck, I'm not sure even a single squad with one SC has ever made it into the top 1/2. Perhaps in 200pts in 2007 you could have done it (150 Vader JH/Lord Vader B&B with 2 SCs for support), but never since then.

And let's be honest here. I added the twin for the speeder because it was flavor for Weir (he both rode a speeder often, and always had speeders in his SC strike forces), but even I don't expect this to make them competitive. It might be fun for some of us to pull out a speeder or two just to say we've played them, but that's about it. Heck, I think the most useful part of that CE would be to combine it with Palps SL/Admiral Paleon to bring in a Republic speeder, then swap out Palps for something useful. But even that is a marginal use at best - just something fun to try.
jak
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 2:54:56 AM
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well. IMO they're GGRREEAATT!ThumpUp I never lost a game when I play them, but I'm certainly not a GenCon competitor.
I love your WeirWub
He's going to add some fun. He'd be cool in themed squads too.
I agree with you that speeders with twin, are still speeders, without a higher base movement they're hard to strafe with, and 21 cost with 30 HP, is nowhere near meta.
They did come out in RS after all.
I'm liking R&R better than DotF so far.
Good job billivThumbsUp
wannabe mexican
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 3:08:54 AM
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jak wrote:
well. IMO they're GGRREEAATT!ThumpUp I never lost a game when I play them, but I'm certainly not a GenCon competitor.
I love your WeirWub
He's going to add some fun. He'd be cool in themed squads too.
I agree with you that speeders with twin, are still speeders, without a higher base movement they're hard to strafe with, and 21 cost with 30 HP, is nowhere near meta.
They did come out in RS after all.
I'm liking R&R better than DotF so far.
Good job billivThumbsUp


This. As brilliant as DotF is, and as great it has been bringing the minor fractions further into the competitive scene, RnR, from what I've seen is incredible. It blows my mind how well the design team know this game, and how good at it they must be to be able to create such great, non-game-breaking minis that make it possible to either dust off old figures as proxies, or that buff those characters that need buffing. Props to you all.

General Weir, I am looking forward to trying him out.

I literally cannot wait for V-Set 3.
cicrush13
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 5:16:14 AM
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Wier should make the SC a fun piece to play, esp with a Nyna and a BBSV for extra def.
cicrush13
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 5:24:29 AM
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Location: Michigan
--Wier-dominate--
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
28 Sly Moore
20 Bith Black Sun Vigo
18 Moff Nyna Calixte
68 Storm Commando x4
11 Admiral Ozzel
8 Mas Amedda
9 Rodian Brute x3
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2

(200pts. 15 activations)

Sly=Wier
dreadtech
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 6:02:31 AM
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Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 933
Biggsy wrote:
Zombie_Jawa wrote:

CE:Characters in your squad named storm commando gain Shields 2 and Twin attack

If the purpose of the V-sets is to make older figures -or older pieces of plastic- more playable, why juice an already undercosted figure like the Storm Commando? Didn't the Atris experience teach us anything?

Every undercosted CE or character created only makes more characters obsolete. You can't fix a problem by creating one.


ZJ



By Biggsy

.[/quote]
"Are you serious? Confused

I can't even remember when i last saw a Storm Commando being played. It's a good piece, but not nearly as good or undercosted as you imply. And i don't see it in any of the top imperial squads?!
General Weir will actually make me play them, at that is great because i've had a hard time trading for the ones i have. I will look forward to actually enjoy the piece for once"..[/quote]


I use Storm Commando's a lot. I personally do not think a character that can get superstealth needs shields as well, I did not like it when the Republic Commando's got it. and to me this is just as bad

Still this is what we are getting so as i said in my earlier post can live with it and if Bill and the other designers decided this is what they want, then so be it, after all they are the designers and we have to let them get on with it. But if other members do not care for it they have every right to say so, I don't think he or others like me are expecting the designers to change the character now.
and yes i am sure he was being very serious
billiv15
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 6:14:12 AM
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Shields is the only way to make them playable, without banning Yoda on Kybuck, Lancer and Anakin on Stap. Twin isn't really a new benefit, as they could get it easily with a czerka, this just makes the squad more cohesive as a unit, but also now the twin is disruptible. So there is a small tradeoff for not needing a czerka. Personally, I've never seen the benefit of running superstealth and shields. It doesn't work with RCs, why would it work here?

Dreadtech may well be talking about mass battle stuff, where you can afford to stack defensive abilities, but in skirmish play, it's never been worth it to stack evade with Superstealth, or shields with Superstealth, etc. If anything, people are going to replace the czerka and Nyna with Weir, not run them together. If they run them together, they will have an underpowered and non-maxed squad design. It's just simply unnecessary to run multiple defensive that don't ostensibly stack with one another.

I'd say a more likely scenario would be using Atris, Weir, Thrawn of choice (old thrawn is actually equally strong and perhaps better than Opp Thrawn in SC squads) and a couple of SCs than Nyna. Sure, people will try it, but they will pretty quickly learn that Nyna is generally a waste of points better spent on another SC, or another damage dealer to compliment the squad.
Darthbane53
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 6:27:38 AM
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I loved the gloomwalkers ( I bet you guys can guess why!) Hers my take on the unique versions of them

Lucia
Cost:21
Hit Points: 60
Defense: 15
Attack: 11
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique
GloomWalker
Sniper (Other characters do not provide cover against this character's attack)
Stealth (If this character has cover, he does not count as the nearest enemy for an attacker farther than 6 squares when choosing targets)
Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, he makes 1 extra attack against the same target)
Serra's BodyGuard (If a character whose name contains Serra is an adjacent ally and would take damage from an attack, this character can take the damage instead)


Dessel, GloomWalker Sargent
Cost 37
Hit Points: 90
Defense: 17
Attack: 13
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique (Counts as Darth Bane)
Sniper (Other characters do not provide cover against this character's attack)
Rapport (GloomWalkers in this characters squad cost 1 less)
Flurry Attack (Whenever this character scores a critical hit, he can make 1 immediate extra attack)
Stealth (If this character has cover, he does not count as the nearest enemy for an attacker farther than 6 squares when choosing targets)
Triple Attack (On his turn, this character can make 2 extra attacks instead of moving)
Force PowersForce 2
Force Sense Force 1, usable only on this character's turn: Enemy characters lose Stealth for the rest of the round
Blaster Barrage Force 1, replaces attacks: Can attack every legal target once

Commander Effect Allied GloomWalker get +3 attack and +3 defense
juice man
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 6:29:59 AM
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Joined: 1/5/2009
Posts: 2,240
Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
--Thrawn's Shadow Squad--
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
27 Lobot
21 General Veers
18 Moff Nyna Calixte
85 Storm Commando x5
8 Mas Amedda
5 Imperial Dignitary
4 Gran Raider

Preferred Reinforcements:
(Lobot) 8 R7 Astromech Droid
(Lobot) 12 Ugnaught Demolitionist x4

(200pts. 17 activations)

I couldn't figure out why this was such a loser squad, then it hit me, no General Wier in this.
At least jak will have to take out a couple SC's to fit him in.
Boris
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 7:42:38 AM
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Joined: 12/18/2008
Posts: 153
Zombie_Jawa wrote:

CE:Characters in your squad named storm commando gain Shields 2 and Twin attack

If the purpose of the V-sets is to make older figures -or older pieces of plastic- more playable, why juice an already undercosted figure like the Storm Commando? Didn't the Atris experience teach us anything?

Every undercosted CE or character created only makes more characters obsolete. You can't fix a problem by creating one.


ZJ


"the Atris experience?" I'm not sure what this is referring to. I'm the one who came up with Atris and I'm very proud of her design. I haven't heard or read anything that suggested there is something wrong with her as a stat design. I would honestly like to know if Atris is a problem piece in some way.
Weeks
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 8:38:31 AM
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I haven't seen where atris is a problem either. I'd like to hear your side of the story though zombie.
swinefeld
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 8:38:48 AM
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Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,457
Location: Southern Illinois
I hereby claim the rights to "The Atris Experience" for squad/team names if it isn't already taken. Razz

She is pretty tough in some combos, but I'll gladly trade that for what for she does for a lot of otherwise unplayable pieces, even if they still aren't strong enough for serious tournament play. BlooMilk

EDIT: Just to clarify a couple things that may read differently than I intended...

- I wasn't poking fun at Zombie_Jawa, it's just that T.A.E. has a nice ring to it that I find amusing. (I also like Jimi Hendrix a lot) ThumpUp
- I can accept the presence of some very powerful combos, if it means my goofy scrub teams can work better too. Smile
CerousMutor
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 8:56:47 AM
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Joined: 8/27/2008
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swinefeld wrote:
I hereby claim the rights to "The Atris Experience" for squad/team names if it isn't already taken. Razz

She is pretty tough in some combos, but I'll gladly trade that for what for she does for a lot of otherwise unplayable pieces, even if they still aren't strong enough for serious tournament play. BlooMilk


LOL
juice man
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 11:42:11 AM
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Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
swinefeld wrote:
I hereby claim the rights to "The Atris Experience" for squad/team names if it isn't already taken. Razz

She is pretty tough in some combos, but I'll gladly trade that for what for she does for a lot of otherwise unplayable pieces, even if they still aren't strong enough for serious tournament play. BlooMilk


jak felt "The Atris Experience" the other day. (350 pts all force only unique) At least untill he sent a couple Jedi Hunters to do the poor girl in. One of the closest games we've had.

EDIT jak won that game. We each had one piece left.
Boris
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 11:53:59 PM
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wannabe mexican wrote:
jak wrote:
well. IMO they're GGRREEAATT!ThumpUp I never lost a game when I play them, but I'm certainly not a GenCon competitor.
I love your WeirWub
He's going to add some fun. He'd be cool in themed squads too.
I agree with you that speeders with twin, are still speeders, without a higher base movement they're hard to strafe with, and 21 cost with 30 HP, is nowhere near meta.
They did come out in RS after all.
I'm liking R&R better than DotF so far.
Good job billivThumbsUp


This. As brilliant as DotF is, and as great it has been bringing the minor fractions further into the competitive scene, RnR, from what I've seen is incredible. It blows my mind how well the design team know this game, and how good at it they must be to be able to create such great, non-game-breaking minis that make it possible to either dust off old figures as proxies, or that buff those characters that need buffing. Props to you all.

General Weir, I am looking forward to trying him out.

I literally cannot wait for V-Set 3.


Thanks. DotF was about balancing the factions. R&R is about balancing the lesser pieces, making them a part of the game again - as much as possible, because let's face it: some pieces will never be playable no matter what we do (here's looking at you, Arcona Smuggler). VSet 3, in my estimation, will be about moving the game forward as a whole. I look for VSet 3 to focus more on the Jedi/Force users, to bring them into the game in their rightful place.
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