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Valiant [+10 Damage against an enemy that is within 6 squares of an allied character]
To me this wording is unclear. Whose ally needs to be within 6?
The sentence makes it sound like an ally of the target enemy. Also - wouldn’t that be VALIANT? To take on an enemy that has a backup friend within 6?
But I don’t think that’s what is meant. I think it means an ally of the character with Valiant. In which case the ability is really poorly named (not that valiant to gang up on someone), as well as worded very unclearly.
I hope I’m wrong.
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Valiant was patterned after Wizard of the Coast's wording for Death Strike.
An ability that's been played since Masters of the Force without any confusion (that I can remember.)
It seemed best to keep consistent with wording with which players are comfortable and familiar.
Death Strike [+10 Damage against an enemy that is adjacent to an allied character]
Valiant [+10 Damage against an enemy that is within 6 squares of an allied character]
"An allied character" is not an enemy character and enemy characters are rarely referenced as allies.
If it were worded to apply to enemy characters it would say, "adjacent to its allied character" or "within 6 squares of its allied character."
The ability was called Valiant because you have to advance and engage the enemy to benefit. Shooting at enemies from across the board or running a monster beatstick toward enemies while the rest of your attackers hide doesn't seem Valiant. I suppose it's a matter of thematic interpretation. Is the ability referring to the character itself or the player's choices? Yeah, theme can get a bit wishy-washy at times.
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DarkDracul wrote:
The ability was called Valiant because you have to advance and engage the enemy to benefit. Shooting at enemies from across the board or running a monster beatstick toward enemies while the rest of your attackers hide doesn't seem Valiant. I suppose it's a matter of thematic interpretation. Is the ability referring to the character itself or the player's choices? Yeah, theme can get a bit wishy-washy at times.
The wording still would allow a shooter to gain Valiant from across the board as long as a melee character is up the map, right?. But so far I think Valiant has only been put on melee attackers, which is great (and hopefully stays that way) I think the Valiant could be like in "The Man in the Iron Mask" they are charging at the end "magnificent valor". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc51ExPQJcQ
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DarkDracul wrote:Valiant was patterned after Wizard of the Coast's wording for Death Strike.
An ability that's been played since Masters of the Force without any confusion (that I can remember.)
It seemed best to keep consistent with wording with which players are comfortable and familiar.
Death Strike [+10 Damage against an enemy that is adjacent to an allied character]
Valiant [+10 Damage against an enemy that is within 6 squares of an allied character]
"An allied character" is not an enemy character and enemy characters are rarely referenced as allies.
If it were worded to apply to enemy characters it would say, "adjacent to its allied character" or "within 6 squares of its allied character."
The ability was called Valiant because you have to advance and engage the enemy to benefit. Shooting at enemies from across the board or running a monster beatstick toward enemies while the rest of your attackers hide doesn't seem Valiant. I suppose it's a matter of thematic interpretation. Is the ability referring to the character itself or the player's choices? Yeah, theme can get a bit wishy-washy at times.
Thank you. And all fair points. It's all depends on "A certain point of view".  
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Udorian84 wrote:The wording still would allow a shooter to gain Valiant from across the board as long as a melee character is up the map, right?. But so far I think Valiant has only been put on melee attackers, which is great (and hopefully stays that way) Not at all. It's on General Hera Syndulla (non-melee) and gives it out to all NR pilot followers w/o a Force rating (which is virtually all non-melee) And I was squad building with her, thinking about how some might use the ability. Thinking of how someone could just run a mouse droid up to within 6 and blast away with the rest of the squad from across the map. (And that is why the name was confusing me) Tangential topic - We need an ability like this for shooters: Quote:Fearless [+10 damage (or +4 attack, or both) when an enemy other than the target is within 6].
Get those shooters up in the mix
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TimmerB123 wrote:Udorian84 wrote:The wording still would allow a shooter to gain Valiant from across the board as long as a melee character is up the map, right?. But so far I think Valiant has only been put on melee attackers, which is great (and hopefully stays that way) Not at all. It's on General Hera Syndulla (non-melee) and gives it out to all NR pilot followers w/o a Force rating (which is virtually all non-melee) And I was squad building with her, thinking about how some might use the ability. Thinking of how someone could just run a mouse droid up to within 6 and blast away with the rest of the squad from across the map. (And that is why the name was confusing me) Oh. I stand corrected. I agree that Valiant isn't very valiant when it is used by shooters. I stayed away from Hera, too many different things she affects.
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Yes, shooters with Valiant get +10 Damage if another ally is within 6 squares of the target enemy.
The AQ-Series Battle Droid, General Hera Syndulla, and Rogue One Commando are all shooters with Valiant.
There was disagreement about Valiant on the design team and we ended up having to come to a compromise.
The original designer wanted Valiant to work with shooters like a damage-boosting version of Gregarious.
Valiant [+10 Damage if an ally is within 6 squares]
I didn't like that version of Valiant and argued for it to be changed.
Darkdracul Feb 12, 2022 - "Valiant is too easy, all I gotta do is be within 6 of ANY ally (uggie, R7, Mouse) and I get a non-disruptible +10 damage. Protective requires a specific ally, who has to be wounded, while Valiant is basically Protective for whoever, whenever. It's like Squad Firepower except you only need 1 of any named ally."
I wanted Valiant to work when surrounded by enemies . . .
"Valiant [+10 Damage if 2 or more enemies are within 6 squares] (I mean how Valiant are you if you need an ally nearby?)"
The compromise was to make Valiant so it's Death Strike but needing an ally to be w/6 instead of adjacent.
It's not my first preference, but it was a good middle-ground all things being considered.
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DarkDracul wrote:Yes, shooters with Valiant get +10 Damage if another ally is within 6 squares of the target enemy.
The AQ-Series Battle Droid, General Hera Syndulla, and Rogue One Commando are all shooters with Valiant.
There was disagreement about Valiant on the design team and we ended up having to come to a compromise.
The original designer wanted Valiant to work with shooters like a damage-boosting version of Gregarious.
Valiant [+10 Damage if an ally is within 6 squares]
I didn't like that version of Valiant and argued for it to be changed.
Darkdracul Feb 12, 2022 - "Valiant is too easy, all I gotta do is be within 6 of ANY ally (uggie, R7, Mouse) and I get a non-disruptible +10 damage. Protective requires a specific ally, who has to be wounded, while Valiant is basically Protective for whoever, whenever. It's like Squad Firepower except you only need 1 of any named ally."
I wanted Valiant to work when surrounded by enemies . . .
"Valiant [+10 Damage if 2 or more enemies are within 6 squares] (I mean how Valiant are you if you need an ally nearby?)"
The compromise was to make Valiant so it's Death Strike but needing an ally to be w/6 instead of adjacent.
It's not my first preference, but it was a good middle-ground all things being considered.
Yeah - I certainly understand how these types of discussions go. And kudos for nixing the other version because it was awful! I don't really have an issue with the ability as it stands, the name all depends on point of view and circumstances. I really like your proposed version (essentially the same, or at least very similar to the one I proposed above as well!) Let's get that on some figures in the next set!
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DarkDracul wrote:
I wanted Valiant to work when surrounded by enemies . . .
"Valiant [+10 Damage if 2 or more enemies are within 6 squares] (I mean how Valiant are you if you need an ally nearby?)"
Timmerb123 wrote:Fearless [+10 damage (or +4 attack, or both) when an enemy other than the target is within 6].
Yeah, I think there's a future for such abilities.
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