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V-Set 30 Friends Like These
Old Republic - 1
1/18
Sith - 1
2/18 Sith Engineer
Republic - 3
3/18 Hevy
4/18 High Republic Jedi Pathfinder
5/18 Yoda, Jedi Grand Master
Separatist - 1
6/18 Banking Clan Logistics Officer
Rebel - 2
7/18 Bode Akuna
8/18 Lando Calrissian, Hero of Endor
Imperial - 2
9/18 0-0-0
10/18 BT-1
New Republic - 3
11/18 Babu Frik
12/18 Dathomiri Beast Handler
13/18 Jedi Warrior
Fringe - 3
14/18 Marchion Ro
15/18 Nihil Storm
16/18 Quiggold
Mandalorian - 1
17/18 True Mandalorian Supercommando
Yuuzhan Vong - 1
18/18 Domain Paath Shaper
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 2/16/2009
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Quote:3/18
Hevy
Republic
RM: Clone Trooper with Repeating Blaster
Cost 25
HP: 70
Def: 17
Att: +8
Dmg: 10
Special Abilities
Unique. Order 66. Trooper
Quadruple Attack; Greater Mobile Attack
Front Liner [+2 Attack and +2 Defense while 2 or more enemies are within 6 squares]
Heroic Stand [When this character is defeated by an enemy while within 6 squares of an enemy, 1 Unique ally with Order 66 may make an immediate attack]
Rally +2 [On his turn, if this character misses an attack, he gets +2 Attack for the rest of the turn]
Rapport [Characters whose names contain Echo or Fives cost 1 less when in a squad with this character]
Single-Shot Blaster [This character cannot gain Twin Attack]
Trust me. I know weapons. Quote:13/18
Jedi Warrior
New Republic
RM: Jensaarai Defender (JA 34)
Cost: 25
Hit Points: 70
Defense: 18
Attack: +10
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Melee Attack; Double Attack
Damage Reduction 10 [Whenever this character takes damage, reduce the damage dealt by 10. Attacks with lightsabers ignore this special ability.]
Draw Fire [If an enemy targets an ally within 6 squares of this character, you may force that enemy to target this character instead if it can; save 11]
Evade [When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11]
Force Powers
Force 3
Lightsaber Block [Force 1: When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11]
Lightsaber Precision [Force 1: This character gets +10 Damage on its next attack]
Peace is our purpose, but when darkness rises, a Jedi stands and fights. - Luke Skywalker
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 2/16/2009
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Quote:11/18
Babu Frick
New Republic / RM: TFU 59 Ugnaught Boss
Cost 2
HP: 10
Def: 7
Atk: +0
Dam: 0
Unique. Resistance. Melee Attack; Speed 4
Diminutive [This character does not provide cover or block movement]
Door Hack [Adjacent doors cannot be closed]
Exclusive Loyalty [Not subject to commander effects of allies who are not Resistance]
Memory Wipe [Replaces attacks: Touch; target enemy Droid takes 10 damage and cannot benefit from or grant commander effects for the rest of the round; save 11]
Repair 10 [Replaces attacks: touch; remove 10 damage from 1 Droid character]
Hey Hey!
(SMALL BASE) Quote:12/18
Dathomiri Beast Handler
New Republic
RM: Human Force Adept
Cost 11
HP: 30
Def: 12
Att: +4
Dmg: 10
Special Abilities
Dathomiri Witch. Melee Attack; Cloaked
Affinity [May be in a Separatist or Sith squad]
Beast Handler [Savage allies may ignore the movement restrictions of Savage if within 2 squares of this character at the start of their turns]
Rival [This character cannot be in a squad that contains any character whose name contains Nightsister]
Synergy +4 [An ally named Rancor gets +4 Attack and +4 Defense while within 6 squares of this character]
Force Powers
Force 1
Force Weapon [Force 1, replaces attacks: +10 Damage until the end of the skirmish]
Commander Effect
Savage characters are subject to these effects:
Allies named Rancor gain Grasping Pull [At the end of this character’s turn, if it did not attack, choose 1 enemy within 6 squares, ignoring cover; place that enemy in the nearest legal square adjacent to this character and it cannot move this round; save 11 negates] for the rest of the skirmish.
Allies within line of sight named Rancor or Dathomiri Witch gain Cloaked and Ambush [This character can move and then make all its attacks against 1 enemy who has not activated this round].
Through the Force, Dathomiri witches forge a fierce bond with rancors, rider and beast move as one
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 2/16/2009
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Quote:6/18
Banking Clan Logistics Officer
Separatist
RM: TFU 54 Muun Tactics Broker
Cost 9
HP: 20
Def: 11
Att: +1
Dmg: 10
Special Abilities
Melee Attack [Can attack only adjacent enemies]
Explosive Supplies [Replaces turn: Choose 1 adjacent ally to gain Satchel Charge (Replaces attacks: Designate 1 adjacent door as open; it remains open for the rest of the skirmish and cannot be closed)]
Terrain Supplies [Replaces turn: Choose 1 adjacent ally to gain Stable Footing (Not slowed by difficult terrain or low objects)]
Commander Effect
Once per skirmish, this character can use 2 abilities that replace turn instead of 1 on its turn.
The Republic relies on heroism; the Separatists, logistics. I can assure you, my spreadsheets are much more reliable. Quote:
8/18Lando Calrissian, Hero of Endor
Rebel
RM: UH 21 Lando Calrissian, Hero of Taanab
Cost 25
HP: 80
Def: 18
Att: +9
Dmg: 10
Special Abilities
Unique. Double Attack
Coordinated Command [Allied Rebel commanders gain Relay Orders]
Devious [+4 Attack against activated enemies]
Lando’s Gambit [Replaces attacks; Choose 1 unactivated Unique enemy; that enemy must make a save of 11. On a failure, until the end of the round, if a Hero of Endor character in your squad can see an enemy at the start of a phase, you may increase or decrease the number of characters you activate in that phase by 1 (minimum 1).]
Rapport [A character named Nien Nunb costs 5 less when in the same squad as this character]
Relay Orders [Each allied commander can count distance from this character as well as from itself for the purpose of commander effects]
Commander Effect
At the end of this character’s turn, choose 1 target ally. At the end of an enemy’s turn this round, if all allies are activated, that ally may immediately move up to its Speed or make an attack, but cannot use Twin Attack.
Han will have that shield down. We've got to give him more time!
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Quote:16/18
Quiggold
Fringe
RM: UH 49; Nien Nunb
Cost 31
Hit Points: 70
Defense: 18
Attack: 9
Damage: 10
Special Abilities
Unique. Pirate
Allegiance [If your squad contained an ally with Desert Skiff immediately before the first activation of the skirmish, this character
gains Coordinate +4 (Pirate allies get +4 to saves while within 6 squares of this character)]
Camaraderie [Allies with Desert Skiff gain Pirate]
Disciplined Leader [This character's commander effect cannot be suppressed]
Grenades 40 [Replaces attacks: range 6; 40 damage to target and to each character adjacent to that target; save 11]
Man the Helm [At the end of his turn, 1 adjacent ally with Desert Skiff may immediately move up to its speed]
Rigging Defuser [This character and each ally within 6 squares ignores Rigged Detonators]
Commander Effect
Adjacent allies with Desert Skiff are considered to have cover. When they take damage, reduce the damage dealt by 10.
An ally with Desert Skiff transporting this character can transport up to 6 Small or Medium characters, including this character, if all transported characters are Pirates.
Maybe... maybe he's ok. Still... (massive explosion) Guess not. Quote:18/18
Domain Paath Shaper
Yuuzhan Vong
RM: LotF 17: Twi'lek Scout
Cost: 20
HP: 50
Def: 16
Att: +4
Dmg: 10
Special Abilities
Melee Attack; Double Attack; Evade; Force Immunity
Backlash [This character can move and then make all of its attacks against 1 enemy who has already activated this round]
Endless Brood [Each Voxyn ally may reroll a save to prevent its defeat once per turn]
Firejelly [Replaces attacks: Designate 1 door within 3 squares as open; it remains open for the rest of the skirmish and cannot be closed]
Synergy [Voxyn allies get +4 Attack and +4 Defense while within 6 squares of this character]
Shaper +10 [Yuuzhan Vong allies within 6 squares get +10 Damage. This bonus damage is multiplied by critical hits.]
Vonduun Crab Armor 11 [When this character takes damage, it can reduce the damage dealt by 10 with a save of 11]
Commander Effect
Your squad must contain a character named Voxyn Queen.
Voxyn allies gain Evade, Backlash and Dominant Maneuver [Ignores lower cost enemies while moving] for the rest of the skirmish.
Allies named Voxyn Queen gain Grasping Pull [At the end of this character’s turn, if it did not attack, choose 1 enemy within 6 squares, ignoring cover; place that enemy in the nearest legal square adjacent to this character and it cannot move this round; save 11 negates] for the rest of the skirmish.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 2/16/2009
Posts: 1,561
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Quote:7/18
Bode Akuna
Rebel
RM: Boba Fett (RS 42)
Cost 35
Hit Points: 90
Defense: 18
Attack: +8
Damage: 10
Special Abilities
Unique. Mantis Crew. Evade
Allegiance [If all Unique characters in your squad had Mantis Crew immediately before the first activation of the skirmish, this character gets +4 Attack and +4 Defense]
Blaster 10 [Replaces attacks: sight; +4 Attack for 10 Damage. This counts as a nonmelee attack]
Camaraderie [An ally who counts as Cal Kestis gains Blaster 10]
Deceptive [+10 Damage against an enemy who has activated this round]
Draw Fire [If an enemy targets an ally within 6 squares of this character, you may force that enemy to target this character instead if it can; save 11]
Flight [Ignores difficult terrain, enemy characters, low objects, and pits when moving]
Grenades 30 [Replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and to each character adjacent to that target; save 11]
Force Powers
Force 3
Focused Attack [Force 2, usable only on this character's turn: This character ignores cover when determining legal targets this turn]
Commander Effect
Mantis Crew allies gain Deceptive.
Bode Akuna worked closely with Cal Kestis on several missions. Quote:17/18
True Mandalorian Captain
Mandalorian
RM: BH 57 Mandalorian Commander
Cost 28
HP: 70
Def: 18
Att: +8
Dmg: 20
Special Abilities
Double Attack; Greater Mobile Attack
Beskar’gam [When this character takes damage, it reduces the damage dealt by 10 with a save of 11]
Camaraderie [Allies whose names contain Jango Fett, Jaster Mereel, or Supercommando gain True Mandalorian]
Flight [Ignores difficult terrain, enemy characters, low objects, and pits when moving]
Gregarious [+4 Attack if an ally is within 6 squares]
Rival [This character cannot be in a squad that contains any character whose name contains Death Watch]
Tactician +2 [Add +2 to the initiative roll except on a roll of 1]
True Mandalorian [If a character whose name contains Jango Fett or Jaster Mereel is in the same squad, this character gains Flamethrower 20 (Replaces attacks: range 6; 20 damage to target and to each character adjacent to that target)]
Commander Effect
Your squad must contain a character whose name contains Jaster Mereel.
At the start of the skirmish, choose 1 Unique True Mandalorian ally. The chosen ally gains Flight for the rest of the skirmish.
True Mandalorian allies gain Greater Mobile Attack.
The True Mandalorians were a Mandalorian group of supercommandos led by Jaster Mereel, who remained loyal to Mandalorian culture in which honor and decency was valued over the barbarism and brigandage favored by Death Watch.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 4/29/2008
Posts: 2,065
Location: Canada
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Quote:4/18
High Republic Pathfinder Jedi
Republic
RM: CotF 4 Jedi Sentinel
Cost: 12
HP 40
Def 15
Atk +6
Dmg 20
Special Abilities
High Republic. Apprentice. Melee Attack
Allegiance [If all Unique allies were High Republic immediately before the first activation of the skirmish, this character and High Republic allies gain Guile (+4 Attack against unactivated enemies)]
Mobile Attack [Can move both before and after attacking]
Pathfinder [Allies are not slowed by difficult terrain within 6 squares of this character]
Stable Footing [Not slowed by difficult terrain or low objects]
Force Powers
Force 1
Door Shatter 1 [Force 1, replaces attacks: range 6; Designate 1 door as open; it remains open for the rest of the skirmish and cannot be closed]
Pathfinder Jedi ventured into the Galactic Frontier to establish communication lines and map out new hyperspace routes. Quote:5/18
Yoda, Jedi Grand Master
Republic
RM: CotF 45 Yoda of Dagobah
Cost: 34
Hit Points: 90
Defense: 18
Attack: +11
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique. High Republic. Melee Attack
Allegiance [If all Unique allies were High Republic immediately before the first activation of the skirmish, this character gains Levitation 1 (Force 1, replaces attacks: Move 1 Small or Medium ally within 6 squares to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity.)]
Ataru Style Mastery [+4 Attack and Twin Attack if exactly 1 enemy is within 6 squares]
Mentor [Whenever an ally whose name contains Apprentice or Padawan within 6 squares is targeted, this character may switch positions with that ally. This character becomes the target instead.]
Shien Style [When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11 and the attacker takes 10 damage; save 11]
Unyielding [+4 Defense if an ally is within 6 squares]
Valiant [+10 Damage against an enemy that is within 6 squares of an allied character]
Force Powers
Force 3. Force Renewal 1; Master of the Force 2
Counter Push 1 [Force 1, usable only when this character takes damage: range 6; 10 damage; push back target 1 square if Huge or smaller]
Lightsaber Block [Force 1: When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11]
Commander Effect
High Republic allies gain Unyielding and Valiant for the rest of the skirmish.
At the end of this character's turn, 1 ally within 6 squares whose name contains Apprentice or Padawan can make an immediate attack.
Fast, you are. Yes, yes. Impressive, your blade moves! But moving so fast, forgot to look down, you did.
SMALL BASE Quote:2/18
Sith Engineer
Sith
RM: AE 48 Jawa Trader
Cost: 18
Hit Points: 40
Defense: 16
Attack: +7
Damage: 10
Special Abilities
Jawa. Mobile Attack; Stealth
Destabilize Shields [Suppresses Shields abilities of adjacent enemies]
Droid Caller [Replaces attacks: Move 1 non-Unique Droid ally within 6 squares adjacent to this character]
Droid Mark [When this character activates, you may choose an allied Droid character within 6 squares. Until the start of the next round, that character gains Draw Fire (If an enemy targets an ally within 6 squares of this character, you may force that enemy to target this character instead if it can; save 11)]
Fire Control [Non-Unique Droid allies get +4 Attack]
Ion Gun +20 [+20 Damage against nonliving enemies]
Roger Roger [Non-Unique Droid allies within 6 squares get +10 Damage]
Commander Effect
Droids are subject to this effect:
Sith allies whose names contain Droid and allies whose names contain HK- within 6 squares lose Shields 1 and Shields 2, and gain Advanced Shields 2 [When this character takes damage, make 2 saves; each roll of 6 reduces the damage dealt by 10].
Even machines can be taught to fear failure.
SMALL BASE Quote:9/18
0-0-0
Imperial
RM: RS 2 C-3P0
Cost 17
HP: 70
Def: 17
Att: +7
Dmg: 10
Special Abilities
Unique. Droid. Melee Attack
Camaraderie [An ally whose name contains Doctor Aphra gains Repair 20]
Corrosive Acid [This character's abilities that affect living characters also affect non-living characters]
Electrocute 20 [Replaces attacks: touch; 20 damage and the target is affected by this character’s ability whose name contains Torture; save 16 negates]
Hindering Presence [Adjacent enemies get -2 on saves to avoid damage from this character's allies]
Repair 20 [Replaces attacks: touch; remove 20 damage from 1 Droid character]
Torture 1 [When an adjacent living enemy takes damage from an attack by this character, it gets -1 Attack and -1 Defense for the rest of the skirmish. (this ability stacks)]
I'm 0-0-0 or Triple-Zero, if you prefer. I'm a protocol droid, specialized in etiquette, customs, translation and torture, ma'am. Quote:10/18
BT-1
Imperial
RM: R4 Astromech Droid
Cost 20
HP: 70
Def: 17
Att: +0
Dam: 0
Special Abilities
Unique. Droid
Advanced Shields 1 [When this character takes damage, he reduces the damage dealt by 10 with a save of 6]
Allegiance [If your squad contained a character whose name contains Doctor Aphra or IG-88 immediately before the first activation of the skirmish, this character gains Weapons Expert (Once per turn on his turn, this character can use a special ability that replaces attacks without replacing attacks)]
Camaraderie [An ally whose name contains Doctor Aphra gains Mobile Attack]
Flamethrower 20 [Replaces attacks: range 6; 20 damage to target and to each character adjacent to that target]
Missiles 30 [Replaces attacks: sight; 30 damage to target and to each character adjacent to that target; save 11]
Mobile Attack [Can move both before and after attacking]
Targeted Payloads [On this character's turn, allies within 6 squares automatically succeed at saves to avoid damage from abilities whose names contain Grenades or Missiles]
"No, BT-1! No! You can't possibly do that. They are our masters! Also, who would clean up the mess?" - 0-0-0
SMALL BASE Quote:14/18
Marchion Ro
Fringe
RM: Mandalore the Ultimate (KOTOR 55)
Cost: 50
Hit Points: 130
Defense: 20
Attack: +14
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Unique. Nihil. Pirate. Double Attack; Greater Mobile Attack
Camaraderie [Non-Unique Mercenary and Pirate allies gain Exclusive Loyalty and Nihil]
Cloaked [If this character has cover, he cannot be targeted by nonadjacent enemies]
Exclusive Loyalty [Not subject to commander effects of allies who are not Nihil]
Eye of the Nihil [This character cannot be in a squad with any Unique characters who are not Nihil. Nihil allies with a Damage value greater than 0 get +2 Attack, +2 Defense, and +10 Damage until this character is defeated]
Marchion Ro's Battle Armor [Whenever this character takes more than 20 damage, immediately reduce the damage taken to 20. The reduced damage cannot be prevented or redirected]
Ride the Storm [Nihil allies gain Greater Mobile Attack]
Vibro Stars [Replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target enemy]
Virulent Paralyzing Poison [+20 Damage against adjacent living enemies and target is considered activated this round; save 16]
Commander Effect
At the end of this character's turn, 2 Nihil allies within 6 squares can immediately move up to their speed.
"Even Republic history logs convey the power and threat of Marchion Ro, legendary Eye of the Nihil." —Rieve Quote:15/18
Nihil Storm
Fringe
RM: CS 20: Naboo Soldier
Cost: 27
Hit Points: 70
Defense: 18
Attack: +10
Damage: 20
Special Abilities
Nihil. Double Attack; Evade
Exclusive Loyalty [Not subject to commander effects of allies who are not Nihil]
Rally +2 [On its turn, if this character misses an attack, it gets +2 Attack for the rest of the turn]
Tactical Advance [At the end of this character's turn, you may place 1 Nihil ally within 3 squares adjacent to this character]
Commander Effect
If all Unique allies are Nihil, this character gains the following commander effects:
At the start of the skirmish, choose 1 non-Unique ally whose name contains Scoundrel or Thug. That ally gains Nihil and Exclusive Loyalty for the rest of the skirmish.
Nihil allies within 6 squares gain Double Attack and Evade.
The Nihil don't make excuses.
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Rank: Dark Trooper Phase III
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Joined: 4/30/2013
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For me, the stand out pieces seem to be Banking Clan Logistics Officer and the Sith Engineer. I like that each gives a wide field of possible play. I think BCLO will be best in San Hill lists that are limited to Sep Characters since their door control options are all pretty expensive for what they are.
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Wow!!!!! Someone on the design team really must love the "Pirate" subfaction! I feel that they are getting a little too much love and attention now!  
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The Nihil can't really play in the usual pirate squads, so I feel like it's not boosting the subfaction too much.
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Rank: Dark Trooper Phase III
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Joined: 4/30/2013
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DarthMaim wrote:Wow!!!!! Someone on the design team really must love the "Pirate" subfaction! I feel that they are getting a little too much love and attention now! Yes, Quiggold was 100% designed to drive the latest Vset Vassel Tournament winning team around on a party barge. Most of the rest of the pieces in this set feel like pieces that were designed not to make the game wider, but have one optimal way/team.
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Here's the thing with design nowadays: We have SO MANY pieces and interactions and Camaraderies and Synergies that pieces really do need to be designed with a specific niche in mind. Just creating a new General Grievous or a non-unique Pilot doesn't mean it'll get used...if that's the case, we might as well have not designed the piece at all. And if the piece is really powerful, what if it also has an unintended synergy that we didn't consider during design? That's how we get broken things. We are now at the part in the game where we need to carefully consider how we intend every piece to function. Some pieces will be very restricted (on purpose), while some others will probably function best in their intended squad base, but will also find value in completely different builds. If the piece is powerful, then its scope NEEDS to be limited, because otherwise someone will find a way to break it. The recent Mon Mothma is an obvious example: she made a bunch of mediocre squads more powerful, but she also made a couple of squads utterly broken. Putting limits and constraints on new pieces (especially powerful ones) is necessary unless we want unbounded powercreep. Serious question here: Do we actually want unbounded powercreep? Here I'll speak for the new pieces that I myself led the design on: Lando is intended to do specific things in a Heroes of Endor squad, and he'll probably be best there because he benefits from their tricks. However, all of his tricks except one work just fine with no other HoE allies around. The BCLO (a cheap Separatist commander that provides door help) is intended to give San Hill another commander to work with, because most of the other in-faction commanders are not helpful with what he wants to do, and the Separatist door control pieces are a bit too pricey. However, I'm sure that he'll be helpful in a number of different squads at some point. He's certainly not powerful, but he's cheap enough that he might be useful. The True Mando Captain had a bit of a broader purpose, but my intention was mostly wanting to give the True Mando sub-faction some more life because the TM Supercommandos are cool. I also wanted Mando Jango to be more effective. I'm curious what more might happen with more True Mandos in the future. We've already seen plenty from their rivals (Death Watch). Everything on his card is tightly tied to the flavor of the True Mandalorians (read about it on Wookieepedia if you're interested). And his TM-specific restrictions are important: would you like to see him giving GMA and Flamethrower 20 and Flight to all Mando allies?  0-0-0 (and his partner in crime, BT-1) was originally supposed to work with the IG-88s squad base, but with how things that have developed on that front, they're not so tightly tied to it anymore. A future Doctor Aphra might be fun to design. Maybe that Aphra will have a use with Vader (like in the comics)? That could be cool, in which case we'd have these two murder-hobo droids working with the Chosen One...that was definitely not an interaction that we had in mind when creating them, but a future Doctor Aphra design probably would.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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I'm liking how this Quiggold fella is looking. Stupid question, but when you reference allies with Desert Skiff, is that just the Nikto on his cardboard barge, or does it also include Barada? I think Barada should be included because the massive HP is balanced by the Large Transport blocking CEs, Man the Helm etc.
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Everything is just for the Nikto on Skiff, because only it has the Desert Skiff ability. But Barada has Immutable, so wouldn't be subject even if included- only the Allegiance would work.
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Rank: Moderator
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Here's the thing to remember: you have a finite amount of points to work with. If you want to put Quiggold in your pirate squad, you have to give up something that makes it really strong. So it really isn't an issue of pre-built squads--you have to choose what you want the squad to do.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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One of the coolest things with Quiggold is putting a bunch of Grenade Launcher guys on the boat, driving around and tossing lots of long-range grenades. That seems like it could be powerful and fun.
You can also take more of the typical shooter-heavy approach, but (as Laura said), you'll just have less points for those shooters if you use Quiggold and the Skiff.
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Rank: Dark Trooper Phase III
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Joined: 4/30/2013
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Not to be confrontational, but I don’t think people are being serious about the design justifications here. We can’t say we’re looking to limit interactions, or prevent breaking something, but then we make a piece that drives around a tournament meta list in a boat with Evade, +4 to saves, AND a better version of DR 10. Not only that, but it removes the two inherent weaknesses of the Pirate list (imho), which were that they could not move and shoot all their attacks, and that they were vulnerable to a list with Strafe. Now you can put the lads in a boat, drive, shoot all your attacks and have them safely bubble wrapped. It’s just a rehash of Garnac, but for the newest meta.
This is why I am complaining about a lack of WIDE pieces, because I want to play around with interactions, I don’t want them made for me. I want pieces that I can put in any list and juice with whatever commanders we already have, or lord forbid adding a new option of a wide commander in a faction that’s gotten stale.
Btw, I keep hearing that Mon Mothma made some lists busted, but I have never seen the list actually posted, so it might as well be a ghost story at this point.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Location: Kokomo
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Blah Blah Words wrote:Most of the rest of the pieces in this set feel like pieces that were designed not to make the game wider, but have one optimal way/team. The goal is to make the game wider in terms of viable squad options by making previously unplayable or underdeveloped squad archetypes worth putting on the table. Ironically, characters with broad, universal applications often have the opposite effect. When the strongest pieces can all be combined into the same squad, the competitive meta tends to collapse into a handful of Tier 1 builds. By designing pieces that strengthen specific squads instead, we can playtest those squads against one another and create a larger number of competitive squad options. That philosophy has generally been borne out over the past decade, although we do occasionally miss the mark and some squads inevitably rise above the rest. Which is why we have a balance committee to issue errata when needed. 1/18 - Creates an entirely new squad archetype using previously unplayable pieces. 2/18 Sith Engineer - Creates entirely new squad archetypes using previously unplayable pieces. 3/18 Hevy - Strengthens Domino Squad, an underdeveloped competitive archetype. 4/18 High Republic Jedi Pathfinder - Strengthens High Republic. 5/18 Yoda, Jedi Grand Master - Strengthens High Republic. 6/18 Banking Clan Logistics Officer - New support option for San Hill Chairman. 7/18 Bode Akuna - Competitive option for Mantis Crew. 8/18 Lando Calrissian, Hero of Endor - Competitive option for Heroes of Endor. 9/18 0-0-0 - New support option for IG and Droid squads. 10/18 BT-1 - New support option for IG and Droid squads. 11/18 Babu Frik - New support option for Resistance. 12/18 Dathomiri Beast Handler - Creates an entirely new squad archetype using previously unplayable pieces. 13/18 Jedi Warrior - Broad application across numerous New Republic builds. 14/18 Marchion Ro - Creates an entirely new Nihil squad archetype. 15/18 Nihil Storm - Supports the new Nihil squad archetype. 16/18 Quiggold - Adds a fun new option for Pirate squads. 17/18 True Mandalorian Supercommando - Creates an entirely new True Mandalorian squad archetype. 18/18 Domain Paath Shaper - Strengthens Voxyn, another underdeveloped archetype. I think it's a healthy distribution. Some pieces are intentionally broad, some are support pieces, and others exist specifically to create or revitalize archetypes that previously weren't competitive. I'd actually be more concerned if every piece in the set were universally splashable, because history has shown that's usually how the meta becomes narrower rather than wider.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/18/2008
Posts: 1,201
Location: Kokomo
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Blah Blah Words wrote:Not to be confrontational, but I don’t think people are being serious about the design justifications here. We can’t say we’re looking to limit interactions, or prevent breaking something, but then we make a piece that drives around a tournament meta list in a boat with Evade, +4 to saves, AND a better version of DR 10. Not only that, but it removes the two inherent weaknesses of the Pirate list (imho), which were that they could not move and shoot all their attacks, and that they were vulnerable to a list with Strafe. Now you can put the lads in a boat, drive, shoot all your attacks and have them safely bubble wrapped. It’s just a rehash of Garnac, but for the newest meta.
This is why I am complaining about a lack of WIDE pieces, because I want to play around with interactions, I don’t want them made for me. I want pieces that I can put in any list and juice with whatever commanders we already have, or lord forbid adding a new option of a wide commander in a faction that’s gotten stale.
Btw, I keep hearing that Mon Mothma made some lists busted, but I have never seen the list actually posted, so it might as well be a ghost story at this point. I think the disconnect here is that you're looking at Quiggold as if he's intended to be the next competitive Pirate build. He really isn't. Quiggold has been in development for years, long before the current Pirate squads became relevant, so this wasn't designed as a response to the latest meta or to prop up a recent winning squad. Quiggold asks you to invest a significant number of points into a strategy that is both aggressive and risky. The only thing Quiggold does besides boost a Skiff is grant +4 to saves to Pirate allies within 6. However, Quiggold doesn't even benefit from his own Coordinate, he's making normal Save 11s on Evade and defeat saves when the Skiff goes down. Accurate Shot and attacks that ignore cover can simply target Quiggold directly. He's only 70 HP. Even with Evade and the improved damage reduction, the Skiff itself is still only 60 HP and absolutely can be downed in a single phase. In our playtesting, the Skiff was usually defeated rounds 2 or 3, and when it did, at least one Pirate, often Quiggold, didn't survive the crash. A few bad save rolls and suddenly you've traded a large chunk of your squad for very little. That's why I see Quiggold as a high-risk, high-reward "fun" option rather than a required competitive choice. Some matchups he'll look fantastic. Others he'll be borderline suicidal. I suspect most tournament players will prefer the consistency of existing Pirate builds. You said, "I want to play around with interactions, I don't want them made for me." But I don't think that's actually possible from a design standpoint. Every special ability, Commander Effect, faction restriction, stat line, and point cost is a design decision that creates or limits interactions. Designers can't simply make characters and "not design" considering interactions. With thousands of game characters and limited playtest capabilities creating WIDE universal characters almost always ends in bad outcomes. From a competitive player's perspective, I completely understand the appeal of wide pieces. They're exciting because everyone gets to hunt for the strongest combination. But from a designer's perspective, that's exactly where the danger lies. The more universally useful a powerful piece is, the more likely the community is to solve that puzzle the same way. Over time, those wide pieces become the strongest squad, and instead of creating ten new competitive squads, they often create one or two dominant ones. That's why we've intentionally leaned toward archetype-focused designs over the past decade. The goal isn't to remove experimentation. The goal is to spread power across multiple competitive archetypes instead of concentrating it into a handful of optimized lists. I also don't think it's accurate to say archetype pieces remove creativity from squad building. There are literally thousands of pieces in this game. Even within a focused archetype there are still countless decisions to be made. The experimentation is still there. It's just happening across many different archetypes rather than everyone gravitating toward the same universally powerful pieces and squads.
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