Welcome to the official discussion thread for the 2025 Balance Committee!

This is the place to bring up ideas, concerns, and suggestions regarding competitive Star Wars Miniatures.

Have an idea to fix a problem?

Want to explain why something isn’t actually an issue?

Think a certain mechanic, squad, or interaction deserves a closer look?

Post your thoughts here. All discussion in this thread will be reviewed thoroughly by the Balance Committee before any official changes are made.

Let’s keep things constructive, clear, and on-topic so this thread can be a valuable resource for the committee and the community alike.

My proposal ( discussion purposes, of course ) would be to remove "Independent Outfit" on both "The Mandolorian" and "Montross". These 2 Mandolorian powerhouses become super bad ass being able to be commanded by the main man himself, "Talon Karrde:Information Broker". Removing "Independent Outfit", I feel moves the focus of "Talon squads", back to the original designer intent of, "Fringe characters only", to get his bonuses, not a "loop hole", to allow these "crazy good already " Mandos, access to them.

San Hill isn't meant to be tossing little support pieces around. The whole point of him was to help the Separatists catch up because they sucked after the activation limit, act control nerf and other changes were introduced. They never got a Nexus to start in the middle or Battle Ready or anything like that. Cad Bane BH helps make a strong shooter squad with Charging Fire, but their melee guys really needed something. Even Durge wasn't really being played for a while before San Hill.

The design intent included being able to move Durge on Speeder. I think it should still apply to him and Maul on Swoop Bike- the Separatists should not get smacked down again the instant they have a competitive chance. The "ignoring attacks of opportunity" part doesn't matter as much, but removing that mainly hurts some of the weaker options anyway (e.g. Dooku, other versions of Grievous, Quinlan Vos etc).

I think give it another season as is and then you'll be able to see if it's warping the meta. San didn't win GenCon and then didn't show up at all for VassalCon. (The fact that Distraction turns off Presumed Dead for Grievous is a fairly glaring weakness.)

Options that I've pondered, for balancing Tulak:


--Remove Darth. This is probably the easiest fix and should probably be included in most situations.

--Change his SSM (basically create a new ability) so that it only works on the first time each turn that he's hit by an attack. So it's essentially a free LS Defense, and after that he'll take damage normally, so he'll need to teleport away if he wants to prevent big pain.

--Only allow him to give Distraction to a lower-Costed ally, rather than any ally. He's the master, and the other guy is the apprentice.

--I really like Randy's suggestion for a change to Identical Forces, that you can only benefit from the switch-positions part of the ability once per round. This will go a long way toward keeping the movement shenanigans in check. As someone who's played the Tulak-Agent combo at least as much as anyone else, I can affirm that being able to hide the Agent after hitting for 100dmg, which was after being moved into position for the shot in the first place...that's nasty. I think this is probably a good change to make anyway, regardless of whether or not Tulak is involved.

--We COULD increase his Cost, but I think there are other alternatives (perhaps some I've listed here) that might be better.


I'm curious what others think.

100% agree, Jason.

+1. I would also ask that the BC look at changing how often it can be used each round.

Moved from other forum ( per DarkDracul's direction )


Randy wrote:
I am suggesting that we remove Light Tutor from Master Thon. Advanced Battle Meditation does not need the additional boost.


Just remember that Bastila can also get access to more Force pts from this special ability on Dray, and he is Fringe and he has Force Renewal 1;

Dark Master:

At the start of the skirmish, choose a Unique allied character. That character may spend this character's Force points as if they were its own.

So perhaps, instead of looking at nerfing Thon, maybe Bastila should be looked at?

An example would be to just errata her card and say, that Bastila can't benefit from any special abilities that increase her Force pts or allow her to access any other characters Force pts.

Back in 2020, past 2018 GenCon champion, TimmerB123, posted the following about the "Dark Force Nexus".

TimmerB123
5/6/2020 4:15 PM

I feel like it could lose summon or easy path. 2 movement breakers are a bit much



TimmerB123
5/7/2020 8:08 AM

But now they drop in the same set a super levitator (with force attuned, they can do it and attack, or go 12 and do it), a killer Sith Lord that walks through walls, and the double movement breaker Dark Force Nexus. I stand by my statement of not needing both. It might even be more usable losing one and being slightly cheaper



In 2023, V-set 25 unleashed this beast;

Sith Darth Malak, Sith Lord 48
Counts As: Malak
Hit Points: 130
Defense: 20
Attack: 14
Damage: 20
Rarity: Rare
Base: Medium
Gender: Male
Darth Malak, Sith LordSpecial Abilities
Unique
Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
Double Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving)
Ambush (This character can move and then make all his attacks against 1 enemy who has not activated this round)
Camaraderie (Allies who count as Revan or Bandon gain Disciplined Leader)
Determined (When hit by an attack while at half Hit Points or less, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Disciplined Leader (This character's commander effect cannot be suppressed)
Lightsaber Duelist (+4 Defense when attacked by an adjacent enemy with a Force rating)
Rapport (A character named Darth Revan costs 30 less in a squad with this character)
Star Forge's Echo (Once per round, if this character or a Sith ally with Melee Attack changes position via the abilities or commander effects of an ally whose name contains Revan, it may immediately use a Force power which replaces attacks)
Force Powers
Force 2
Force Renewal 1 (This character gets 1 Force point each time he activates)
Force Lightning 2 (Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target)
Sith Lightning 30 (Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 30 damage)
Sith Rage (Force 1: +10 Damage on all attacks this turn)
Commander Effect
Sith allies with a Force Rating are considered to be within range of allied commander effects.
Allies who count as Bandon, Bastila, or Revan gain Ambush and Determined.
"This is but a taste of the dark side to whet your appetite."




I feel that Malak only further magnifies that the Sith no longer need help with movement. I agree with TimmerB123, from waay back in 2020, that 2 movement breakers on the DF Nexus, is too much, especially with the new Malak, which really helps the Sith with "Star Forge's Echo", and with his undisruptable board wide extension of CE's to Bandon, Bastila, and Revan ( "Hello there", Revan )


Dark Force Nexus 18
Hit Points: 0
Defense: 0
Attack: -1
Damage: -1
Rarity: Uncommon
Base: Small
Gender: It

Special Abilities

Dark Nexus (Set up on your half of the battle map at least 5 squares from the center. Cannot gain Force points. Whenever this character activates remove 1 Force point from it. You may then add 1 Force point to 1 ally whose name contains Darth within 6 squares. Unique Sith allies within 6 squares can spend their own Force points once per turn and spend Force points from this character once per turn. When this character has no Force points or no Unique Sith allies, it is immediately defeated. No more than 1 character with Dark Nexus per squad.)
Presence of the Dark Side (Once per turn, an enemy that activates or ends its move within 6 squares of this character loses 1 Force point and takes 10 damage; save 11)
Rapport (Characters named Sith Holocron or Vision in the Cave cost 3 less when in the same squad as this character)
Stationary Apparition (Cannot move or be moved. Ignores characters and terrain. Cannot open doors. Cannot attack or be damaged, and does not count as a legal target, the nearest enemy, or adjacent. Not subject to commander effects. Does not provide cover.)
Summon (During setup, 1 ally whose name contains Darth and 1 ally named Sith Holocron may set up in squares adjacent to this character on your half of the battle map)


Force Powers
Force 10
Easy Path (Force 1, replaces attacks: Move 1 ally with a Force rating and Melee Attack within 6 squares up to 6 squares. That character then takes 10 Damage, save 11.)



My proposal to the BC, is on the "Dark Force Nexus", to remove either "Summon" or "Easy Path", in addition to my previous post regarding unique allies using Force Points of their own and from the Nexus on the same turn.

I was thinking about a change to this ability. Something like...


Making it as if the character has been exposed to the Presence of the Dark Side...

Diplomat

If an attacker has line of sight to any enemies without Diplomat, this character is not a legal target and does not count as the nearest enemy, even if adjacent

Glossary Text

If an enemy without Diplomat is in line of sight of the acting character, that character cannot target or attack an enemy with Diplomat, even one that is adjacent. If an enemy without Diplomat is in line of sight and the only adjacent enemy has Diplomat, no legal target is available.


DarkDracul wrote:
Official Balance Committee Rulings for (2022) competitive tournament play.
http://starfireskee.com/balance-team-changes/

Simple Version
• Diplomats do not score gambit.
• You cannot “stack” Save modifiers.
• You cannot “stack” Reinforcements.
• Blast Bug is halved to 10 damage.
• Characters without Hitpoints cannot protect Diplomats.
• Diplomats cannot block enemy movement.
• Rigged Detonators does not work on Attacks.
• All allies must be Hutt Cartel to benefit from Jabba DT’s CEs.
• Bib’s CE moves each character only once per phase.
• Daala remains banned for now.


My proposal is for the BC to remove the following ruling from "Diplomat";

• Diplomats cannot block enemy movement.

This ruling doesn't make sense to me. They absolutely should block movement. So does this mean that characters without "flight" or "acrobatic" or "Force Powers" that ignore characters, can just walk through the character with "Diplomat" or "Aggressive Negotiations", and not get attacked, even if those characters can attack and do damage if they choose to? I feel that this takes away the very reason I would ever use a "Diplomat" on a build, or maybe I "might" use it with a couple teams, but this decision will normally keep characters with the "Diplomat" and "Aggressive Negotiations" special abilities at the bottom of my minis bin, or never used on Vassal, imho. I think using Diplomats to block movement was a legitimate part of the game! I don't think this change was necessary. Diplomats should do something, and blocking movement, was not a problem. Plus there are counters for them; Indiscriminate, flight, acrobatic, Force Powers, wall climber, tow cable, area effects on adjacent characters ( flamethrower, grenades, Force Lightning, etc. ), overwhelming power, and well placed angles where other enemy characters can't be seen, etc. This was intended by "Wizards" when they designed this special ability in the game ( Rob and other creative minds ). This was not a balance issue! What was the data driven argument for this change? I feel the BALANCE team should be about balance. I do appreciate the BC for doing what they do, and I know that their intentions are primarily to make our game great again, but if you haven't already guessed, I do not like this part of their "Diplomat" decision .

Lastly, I will say that some of what I wrote here are a combination of comments by other respected players in the SWM community, and I have re-posted some of what some of them posted back after the decision, in 2022. These players are the following; ( some of them may have changed their minds in the last 3 years, but nonetheless, they all expressed in one way or another, or felt in one way or another, that this change, was unnecessary at the time ) ;

thereisnotry
gandalf
udorian
jen'ari
darth_ jim
darthmaim now, and why I didn't post anything back then is a mystery to me