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Lemoyne Pa Nov 12 results and commentary Options
Darth_Jim
Posted: Saturday, November 12, 2011 3:22:36 PM
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Thanks to all who attended for a fun and successful event. Before I get into reporting the results and such, I'd like to let all who played know that you are encouraged to participate in this thread, not only to post results but comment on the format. I'd appreciate feedback on what worked and what didn't. Specifically, what about not having a CE limit? How did that play out? What about multiple Epics? Did you like the 3-2-1 scoring system? How should gambit be handled, and did we miss the mark on that? Of course, everyone also wants to know your takes on the games themselves.

10 players were in attendance: 3 from my group in Pa, 1 from Nj, 1 from Ny, 5 from Va. Here is the finishing order with records and points:

1. Kris M. (McNizzle) (Pa) 3-0 8pts
2. Josh (Hinkbert) (Pa) 2-1 6pts
3. Trevor (Thereisnotry)(Nj) 2-1 6pts
4. Roy (SWRogue57) (Va) 2-1 5pts
5. Jim (Darth_Jim) (Pa) 2-1 5pts
6. Kris S. (DarthMalus) (Va) 2-1 5pts
7. Marcous (JediMaster27)(Va) 1-2 3pts
8. Gerry (Darph Nader) (Ny) 1-2 2pts
9. Ian (Jester007) (Va) 0-3 2pts
10. Nason ------------- (Va) 0-3 0pts

I didn't ask for squad sheets, so I'm not sure what all of the squads are. What I remember was Kris M and Josh ran OR, Trevor and Jim ran Imp, Roy and Ian ran NR, and Gerry ran Rebel.
Darth_Jim
Posted: Saturday, November 12, 2011 3:56:40 PM
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Here was my squad that I finished 5th with a 2-1 record:

Imperials

Epic Phantom Menace
Epic Vader
Pellaeon
Ozzel
Veers
Thrawn
Mas Amedda
Nyna Calixte
KelDor X 6
IE Lobot
Caamasi Noble

First game was against Ian. Talking with him after the match we agreed that rather than either of us making game-winning moves, we both made some costly mistakes. I just made fewer mistakes. Also, luck was against Ian as he made about 40% of his save rolls, but missed just about every important one. Key point in the game was Mara attacking Vader and Vader survived instead of basing Thrawn. Vader, in turn, killed Mara. 1-0

Second game was against Trevor. (What a way to start a tournament; game 1 against the national champion and the second against a perrenial top 8 at GenCon) In the first round I used Epic Phantom Menace's Ce to kill a handmaiden with an exploding Kel Dor. 2nd round I got 2 more, but lost Pellaeon in addition to a Kel Dor. The third round, lost 2 more Kel Dors but killed 2 more handmaidens. Trevor turned the tide in round 5 by killing Lobot with his Phantom Menace, then swapping him with his last handmaiden and killing Thrawn. From that point, it was mop up duty which Trevor does quite efficiently. 1-1

The last round was vs Gerry and his Rebel squad. Despite Luke being totally nerfed by Vader, Gerry played well and the game was tense all of the way. The critical point in the game was when Gerry passed on using Dark Temptation with Ferris Olin on an AoO on a Kel Dor. The Kel Dor based Luke, Ferris, R2 and Lobot and blew up, taking away all of Gerry's door control. Door control from that point on was the key to my victory. 2-1

I had a great time... even in the most tense moments of my games, my opponents were gracious and friendly. I am so glad this seems to be the norm rather than the exception in our game. Everyone seemed to have a good time and was happy with the prize support.

Observations:

I still like the no ce limit. I ran 7 commanders with even more effects and finished mid-pack. Talking to DVader831 who also had an Epic 500pt tournament. Even though he did have a Ce limit, our results were similar: OR finishing 1st and 2nd with a combined record of 5-1.

Gambit did not work well as we played it. We scored 25 instead of 5, but did not increase the minimum cost for a figure to score it. In retrospect, we should have the cost match the score. Lesson learned.

I still like the 3-2-1 scoring method, but it did not have an impact on our tournament. Ian scored 1pt twice but no one else did. We've had previous events where it affected the top of the finishing order, but not this time.

Multiple Epics did not provide players with a signifigant edge. The first 3 spots (maybe 4) had only 1 Epic each. I think it works to allow multiples.




Darth_Jim
Posted: Saturday, November 12, 2011 3:57:41 PM
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Oh guys, remember to post in Celestial Warriors playtesting thread if you played on one of the new maps.
Darth_Jim
Posted: Saturday, November 12, 2011 11:29:47 PM
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Location: Central Pa
I'd also like to thank everyone who supplied prize support for my event. First, Marcous Morton and the Virginia boys for the top-notch customs they molded and painted and then donated. A lot of the downtime was spent admiring their work. Jake Shuler provided a Star Wars book that proved to be highly sought after. I bought 2 maps from Christopher West and asked him to autographed him. Not only did he autograph them, he added a third one himself. Finally, Charlie Brubaker, owner of 'That Game Place' which was the store sponsoring the convention, added an Endor pack to the pile. We used that as the Good Sportsmanship award, which was won by Nason.

Thanks to everyone who helped me with the prize support...all of us appreciated it.
jak
Posted: Sunday, November 13, 2011 2:03:31 AM
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Location: Beggers Canyon Tatooine
Sad Crying wish I was there.
wonder how my squad would have doneConfused Unsure
Hinkbert
Posted: Sunday, November 13, 2011 2:29:52 AM
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Location: E-town PA
I actually had a Republic squad. This is what is was:

Yoda LoftLS
Obi-Wan, Jedi General
Mace Windu LoftLS
Boba Fett, Bounty Hunter
Atris
Zuckuss
Dark Woman
Captain Panaka
Lobot Computer Liaison Officer
R2-D2
Mas Amedda
Rodian Diplomat
2x Rodian Brute

The Dark Woman always tutored Boba Fett so he had access to Yoda's commander effect. The one time I rolled Reserves I brought in Jolee Bindo just to give my followers an extra boost via Force Valor.

I played Marcous first and we had similar squads but I think I was able to pull off a win since I had Obi JG giving extra attacks. I was able to kill of his Cade Skywalker first round and towards the end of the game I disintegrated his Yoda who still had about a 1/3 of his health left and shields active.

2nd round I faced Kris and his OR squad. I made a bad bet/exchange by rushing Mace in and waiting to see if he would activate Bastila first round before I could switch. He did. I was eventually able to turn Bastila off, but at a high cost and then he "stuck" my Boba BH with Zuckuss (I erroneously thought that if I evaded the shot I'd be able to move) so I was stuck shooting at Hoth when I wanted to kill Bastila. Yoda was able to really to hang in there though due to all his defensive capabilities, so: Go Yoda. All in all he had a very well built and efficient OR squad and I congratulate him on winning.

For the 3rd round I faced Roy and his NR Squad. Midway through the first round he was able to get Mara based against Boba, but only by spending all the force points Mara could spend for the round so Boba survived and then was able to shoot back and Zuckuss finished her off. I was then able to tow Yoda with R2 to a spot where 1 ugnaught was with 6 and no other close enemies. I was then able to target his R2/C3PO mini who was surrounded by 6 others with lightsaber throw with ataru active. His squad was able to defend thought due to evade and Leia's re-roll save CE. This re-rolling proved to be highly annoying, Jacen was able to parry 3 critical Mace hits successfully, until I realized that I could swap Dark Woman with Obi-Wan, phase through a wall and take out the injured Leia. Finally, no more save re-rolling.

In regards to commander effect limits, I don't think there should be any limit. I technically ran 4 (but only really accessed 3 since I had no Handmaidens for Atris) and if I recall correctly the winning OR squad only had 3 so having a lot of CEs isn't a requirement to do well. If the format starts restricting CEs it'll just nerf certain factions (I'm thinking mainly Imperial and the Rebels). The 16 activation limits should stay and I don't think there should be an epic limit.

As for gambit, I'm for increasing the amount, but figure point cost should come into consideration too. I was able to get gambit quite a few times with a Rodian Diplomat and a 5 point figure acquiring 25 points seems imbalanced. But I think a higher gambit cost will help create more 3 point wins and 1 point losses plus it'll continue to tempt people to try for gambit in this high point format which will keep the games moving.

I too would like to thank those who provided prize support and Jim for running the tourny. And I'd also like to thank the players, I've met some really cool people since I starting playing and I'm really glad I returned to playing the game.
DarthMalus
Posted: Sunday, November 13, 2011 9:47:22 AM
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OK, 6th place so no full play report. I played Epic Yoda and Mace w/a Naboo Death-shot squad. Works well when I remember to keep doors open for CEs Mad.
I do have a good story tho. I played Ian in the 3rd round. He played NR w/a bunch of GMobiling Gray Jedi. Well, in the 2nd round of the game, one of his Gray Jedi switched to my side. He proceeds to drop 50 Dam on it by the end of the round. Round 3, he goes w/Mara 1st. So my turn I Greater Mobile my new Gray Jedi up to Cade Skywalker, 3 swings, activate Dark Temptation......1st swing misses, 2nd - crit for 60, 3rd - crit for 60 OMG = dead Cade (and Yoda FS)! I fail the save so Gray Jedi goes back to Ian's side. My second activation is a Naboo Trooper that finishes off the traitorous Jedi. 100+ pt swing for me!

We never finished the round. I don't blame Ian, that was crazy. Mara was all he had left (damage wise)and my Yoda was at full strength.

It is a very interesting format. I agree w/Jim that the 25 pt gambit needs to be offset by requiring a higher point figure to claim it. Or lower the gambit points. The CEs didn't seem to be a problem at all. I had 8 in mine, used all of them, and did't really enjoy any advantages. I don't like Tempo control in activation limited formats, but that's just me. We'll be trying more of the 500 pt format in our own group to try and get a better grip on it.

Thanks Jim for running another fun and (IMO) successful event. Thanks to Jake Shuler and Christopher West for the Stat book and the maps, I got the book and my son got one of the maps (winning!)

Can't wait to see you all again! Jak, sorry you couldn't make it, we'll have to come up with a reason to get together sometime!
Darth_Jim
Posted: Sunday, November 13, 2011 11:06:48 PM
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Thanks, K-Kris... remember, anyone who played on any of the new maps submit a report on Brad's playtesting thread. (In the general section)
christophercook
Posted: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 2:21:01 PM
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Hey guys how many rounds did you average? It seems that its too many guys running around. I was only able to get 2-3 rounds in during a game I played. I think tempo needs to be gone somhow or bring the pts down to 350/400 with limited acts.
DarthMalus
Posted: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 6:04:55 AM
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I think we went anywhere from 3 to 5 rounds. Most of the squads I saw maximized their acts (12 to 16), and about half had some form of tempo control. So we were looking at about 36 - 48 phases per round which can translate to a lot of time. My opinion is that when activations are limited, tempo control should not be legal.
Darth_Jim
Posted: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 11:29:02 AM
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In the three rounds I played:

Game 1 - 6 rounds. Complete game

Game 2 - 5 rounds. Complete game.

Game 3 - 4 rounds. Went to time.

In my opinion, just counting rounds won't give an accurate account of whether tempo control pieces are slowing the game down. My results in the tournament were typical; there were 3 rounds and 15 total games, with 10 complete games and 5 going to time. My squad had tempo control in it; I don't know what other tempo control was present. I think if we are going to figure the number of rounds into the equation, then complete games should be counted as 10 round games.

If I had to venture an opinion just based on the results of this tournament, I'd have to say that tempo control wasn't the main issue in the 5 incomplete games. The trend of complete games seemed to follow the player, not tempo control. For instance, Trevor, Josh, and Ian played all of their games to completion. I think it is important to consider as much input as possible from different tournaments before banning tempo control, as tempo control plays important roles in some factions and those factions would suffer strategically more than others. My current opinion based on what I've seen in this tournament and the past few my group has run is that tempo control isn't an issue.
DarthMalus
Posted: Friday, November 25, 2011 2:11:51 PM
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Sorry Jim, I wasn't blaming tempo control for the speed of the game. Looking at my post, it's easy to see it that way (I'm terrible at expressing myself through written media, especially when I don't proof read). My last sentence in the above post was a completely separate thought. My brain will be like 3 or 4 sentences ahead and some how I skip stuff. I have a tendency to mistype what I intend to say. That's why I don't post too much.

My opinion on tempo control not being allowed in activation restricted formats has nothing to do with speed of game. It has to do with the fact that when all factions are restricted by activation limits, it gives tempo control even more of an advantage in the matchup. In unrestricted formats, a player can add extra activations to help defend against an opponent's tempo control. The player choosing to use tempo control knows this, so usually they must chose quantity over quality to ensure that their big combo goes off (ie mousies, uggies, etc.). No such problem in a restricted activation format. Just my opinion though.

Darth_Jim
Posted: Friday, November 25, 2011 11:51:10 PM
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LOL we're all expressing opinions here, no need to apologize. I think both postulates... tempo control slowing the game down and tempo control being too strong of a strategy... should be explored. I happen to think the threat of Bastila is enough to keep tempo control generally in check without banning it, but, like I said, we should hammer this all out in playtesting and discussion before GenCon.
Jester007
Posted: Saturday, November 26, 2011 12:32:57 AM
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Here's the squad that I played at the tournament:

Epic Mara
Cade Skywalker, Bounty Hunter
Kyle Katarn, IBM
Gray Jedi x5
Ganner Rhysode
Twi'lek BSV
Yoda, F'S
R7 Asromech droid
General Wedge
Mouse Droid x2
Ugnaught Demo

I wanted to run a fun squad that had the potential of doing tons of damage. The idea was to give the Gray Jedi GMA via Wedge & TBSV. They use Dark Temptation and drop 120 damage on someone. Then they could swap sides to be killed by another Gray Jedi or Cade. It was good on paper, but they ended up costing me my games.

In my first game, two of the Grays failed their ST saves after killing minor pieces. In the second game, three of my Grays swapped sides (2 of them from Internal Strife ) and stayed in my opponents squad for the rest of the match. In my third game, one Gray turned, but I killed him with another Gray (who ended up turning due to ST). The next round, that Gray walks up on Cade and swings three times. The first one misses, so I was like sweet, Cade is gonna live through this. I was proven to be sorely mistaken when the Gray critter on Cade w/ his next two attacks. That took out Cade and Yoda. The Gray then decides to join my squad again and was immediately killed. That whole ordeal gave my opponent (Kris) 111 points and swung the game in his favor.

Even though I lost all three games, I still had a good time playing in this format. I enjoyed playing with the Epics and am glad to see a possible format being tested to see if there can be more tournament type to broaden their use. Next time I'll have to try out some wookie Jedi running full scream w/ Triple, Twin, GMA & Momentum. See you all round. Cheers!

Sincerely,
Jester007
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