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TimmerB123
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2021 8:44:09 AM
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Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,412
Location: Chicago
Most things in this game stack.

Per the glossary:
“In general, the effects produced by Force powers, special abilities, commander effects, and cover stack (are cumulative) with each other.”

We know that different SAs stack, CEs stack with SAs, etc.

The exceptions are if it’s straight stat bonuses in CEs, or the EXACT same SA (Piett and Thrawn don’t give double opportunist to troopers).


Some same named (but not exactly the same) SAs for sure stack (example: different rapports)

Is rapport the exception, or is the general rule that if they aren’t EXACTLY the same, they stack?


Do different protectives stack?

Example: Venku Skirata’s Protective of unique Mando allies, and Protective of Clan Skirata allies (granted via camaraderie from Ruusaan Skirata). Would he get +20 dam when within 6 of an injured Clan Skirata Unique Mando? (As lead designer on this piece, I can say for certain that this was the intent)
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2021 3:52:17 PM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,221
Rapport is the exception. Different Protectives wouldn't stack, and different Synergies (on the same stat) don't stack.

I'm paraphrasing swinefeld here, but at one point he said something like, "The question isn't why doesn't Synergy work like Rapport. The question is why does Rapport stack with itself when basically nothing else does?" The answer, of course, is just because that's how WotC ruled on Rapport.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2021 3:59:20 PM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
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As long as we're on the topic of stacking, might as well talk about a couple of other weird interactions as reminders.

Mines doesn't stack even from different characters, but it does trigger on every square. So if you walk between two enemy LIN Demolitionmechs, you only make one Mines save per square, but you would save for each square. The idea here is that each LIN is affecting the square, and the square is either Mined or not.

Similarly, Proximity Mines and other abilities that give status effects don't stack with themselves. You're either Mined or you're not. You're either Corrupt or you're not. You can't be double-Mined or double-Corrupt. You can take the initial damage again on corruption, for example, but you don't have to make 2 Corruption saves on your next turn.

Effects that completely resolve do generally "stack". It's not really stacking, though. If two characters have Impulsive Sweep, they can each do an Impulsive Sweep. Completely resolve one before resolving the other. Because one completely resolves before starting the second, it isn't really stacking - it's two effects in sequence from the same trigger.
DarkDracul
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2021 7:03:52 PM
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So why does Fringe Reinforcements 20 on Jabba Desilijic Tiurestack and Lobot stack with itself?

It's kinda weird because same-named Rapports do not stack with each other.

By that logic Fringe Reinforcements 30 shouldn't stack with Fringe Reinforcements 20 . . . right?
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2021 7:56:23 PM
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Reinforcements don't "stack". You can't combine them to get a 40pt character, for example. They resolve separately.

But you have a good point regarding getting two sets of Fringe Reinforcements. Under WotC rules, you can get multiple sets of reserves on the same roll (even from multiple copies of the same non-Unique). That's in the FAQ. I would say that you can get multiple Fringe Reinforcement sets by following WotC's logic of WotC's rule about getting multiple sets of Reserves at a time.

However, there's a balance committee ruling that disallows multiple Reserves sets on the same roll. If we follow the logic of the Balance Committee Reserves ruling, it makes sense that multiple Reinforcements should also go away. It would be more consistent and would help the game at the same time.
fingersandteeth
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2021 8:31:06 PM
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I would be for rapport and reinforcement not stacking.

Would clear up a lot of space.
TimmerB123
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2021 9:48:19 PM
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Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,412
Location: Chicago
Ugh this is getting so frustrating.

2 more games misplayed (Sorry Jim)

Man, I was lead designer on BOTH vset 22 pieces I played in each game this round. 2 different protectives on Venku Skirata (of which I was a designer on both, set 14 {Venku Skirata} and set 22 {Ruusaan Skirata}) and 2 different synergies effecting Geonosian Soldiers (of which I was a designer on both, set 7 {Geonosian Elite Soldier} and set 22 {Sun Fac, Chief Lieutenant}).

So I guess I just don't know this game as well as I should. It's frustrating and depressing.

But it's not like I was alone. We had a team of some of the most active players in the game. We had a member of the rules committee on our design team. We had QC from the most major rules experts in the game. And we ALL missed these interactions on BOTH of these pieces.

until now.

Well crap.


It really is getting frustrating. It's not an exaggeration to say that there are almost as many games I've played with rules mess-ups (some minor, some major) as without.

Situations that are not broken in the least are not allowed (Geos going from a +2 attack to a +8), and we (apparently) intentionally stack things like Jabba and Bib Fortuna.


I just want to pull my hair out
gandalfthegreatestwizard
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2021 11:37:13 PM
Rank: Moderator
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Joined: 4/30/2017
Posts: 592
Designing is hard. This game has a very complex set of rules. I think it might be a good idea to slow down the output of sets so that we can design better and do QC better. After all, most of the Legends characters are made, and who wants to see Canon characters anyway? ;)
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