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Subfactions Options
TimmerB123
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2022 1:21:21 PM
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As a designer, at this point in our game I am a strong proponent for focusing on subfactions. There are just too many combinations to worry about without narrowing the scope of a character so that they only really shine best inside of their specific subfaction. We can make strong characters specific to a subfaction much more safely, where as if they are strong overall and fit into many squad types, they become broken much more easily, or they are made weaker out of caution and then don't see play.

We have tons of subfactions in the game. Some are very fleshed out, some have a reasonable amount, some have barely scratched the surface (and it might even be a stretch to call them a subfaction).

What I'm looking for here is a discussion on what subfactions need a lot of help, what ones just need a little boost, and what ones have plenty and we should take a break from for a bit.

Also - any subfactions that desperately need to be added to the game that we don't have? My general feeling is that at this point these will probably mostly come from new Star Wars canon, but if we've completely neglected something from the past, bring it up.
Cassus fett
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2022 4:07:36 PM
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I hate Disney Canon, but if that’s where we’re going… Truthfully I’m not sure there’s any sub factions from Canon who have enough to work with. Resistance and First Order are tapped out. No Black Sun, idk if there’s enough from the god awful High Republic series to make a new OR or Republic faction. I know Legion just released Clan Wren, but again there’s what, Ursala Wren and???
Maybe Crimson Dawn, new Qi’Ra? I know that event is happening rn.
On the Legends side, Lost Tribe is tapped out, there’s still some One Sith from Legacy to be made. We’re still missing republic commandos and Null Arcs, but again for the Nulls, not much is know about several of them like Prudii and Kom’rk. I’m still baffled that there’s only like 4 Hapan Pieces. So they get my vote.
Cassus fett
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2022 4:14:53 PM
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Part 2.
From my perspective we’ve got a bigger issue. I feel as though somewhere around V-Set 13 designers stopped making pieces so that the character would be represented, and started looking for characters who Would sorta match a mechanic they were trying to push. That’s how we ended up with the legendary Yaddle comment section and that stupid Tk-421 in V-Set 10. I know those are before 13, but 13 is when I really noticed this happening more and more. So as much as I hate Disney canon, maybe focusing on them and getting some of those new characters represented would bring design back to a better space.
spryguy1981
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2022 5:02:32 PM
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Neo-Crusaders
Covenant needs it's last 2 main characters
Republic Clone Pilots

To name a few.
adamb0nd
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2022 6:33:10 PM
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Lot's of good points. Sub factions are one area WoTC under developed, and as the V-Set designers, we've also not done nearly enough.

From a design perspective, it's safer to the game's health to focus on subfactions. Easier to playtest and balance a piece that mechanically interacts with a subfaction compared to one that mechanically interacts with almost all pieces. The "flavor accuracy" of focusing in on the subfaction role is a major win too.

I think this desired shift is already naturally happening to a large degree in the newer v-sets, and for a few reasons. Its easier on the designers and testers, so the path of least resistance, and also there's also been requests for this from the community for a long time.


I'm a really big fan of Golden One, and would like to see more characters like him. He takes a sub faction, boosts it, limits the squad to the subfaction, but also allows a select few pieces into that subfaction. There's a lot of build versatility despite his restrictions, and it's easy to keep controlled and prevent broken builds.

Good works been done for the Hutts, Blacksun, Imperial Knights, Ewoks, Mercs, and Pirates.

Chis look like theyre getting there or may be. Wookiees have always had a lot of support but never felt competitive. Rebel Commandos are OK.

Tuskens and Jawas could use more. . Book of Boba will no doubt provide some opportunities for designer ideas.

Trandoshans, Twiliks and Gamoreans have gotten a little love, and need more. Lots of other species to work with here.

Mandos Allies has little synergy between the sub faction characters. We'll need to figure out a few more characters to tie the subfaction together.

Rogue One and Crimson Dawn got their movie sets and then weren't focused on as much.
TimmerB123
Posted: Saturday, January 15, 2022 10:45:58 AM
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I think part of the challenge is that it really is best when subfactions are built with multiple pieces over multiple sets. But it’s hard to keep the focus over time, and different designers sometimes take things in a different direction. So there is some motivation to build a new subfaction to a competitive level in one set (or with one piece!)

And of course people have their favorites (only natural), they get obvious focus. Also subfactions that seem “close” to competitive tend to get more focus than subfactions that seem like they’d need a truckload (or a broken piece) to be competitive.

As far as “characters missing”, they are often under discussion and miss the cut. One example is the last 2 Yayax squad members. Since Yayax has been singled out on cards and abilities, it feels like we are “missing” them. However, every set I’ve worked on (since the first 2 were done), we’ve decided against them for multiple reasons. First, Republic Commandos are already a very solid subfaction. It’s tough to pinpoint something they are missing. It’s pointless to do a character just to do a character, without direction or purpose. Beyond the subfaction, Republic in general has a lot going on. The have numerous subfactions in addition to general top tier pieces. Since in general we try to spread the pieces through most if not all the factions in each set, spaces in each faction is precious, especially for uniques. Republic also has more pieces than any faction (not counting Fringe). So all that together, it’s hard to justify making the last 2 Yayax members. Not saying we never will, that’s just why we haven’t yet.


Another note - certain subfactions are legitimate subfactions (as in, by name in cannon - ie Crimson Dawn, Wraith Squadron, etc), some are more generalized (Pirates, Mercenaries, etc), and some are simply species. The specific (named) subfactions are harder to continue expanding because their core material is limited (as mentioned earlier in the thread). They are often era specific, and sometimes only have a single source. Generalized subfactions are easier to expand because they come from multiple eras, multiple sources, etc. Species as a subfaction make sense sometimes in my opinion - such as Ewoks (re: return of the Jedi), Wookiees, etc. But does the game really need a top level competitive Jawa squad? I don’t personally think so. Some inter species synergies are great, but they don’t need to be built into full squads.

All this conversation is great for getting more input from the community.
Cassus fett
Posted: Saturday, January 15, 2022 11:40:23 AM
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Hapans and One Sith I think have material to pull from still.
Chiss need help, and we've got Legends and Canon for that.
On a species front, we need not garbage Twileks to go with my boy Cham

Speaking to the tuskens Adamb0nd mentioned I think that also speaks to an issue. We only have so many figures of each species. There's what, 4 Tusken raider pieces even made by WotC? Raider, Sniper, Scout, Bantha. I don't see much room to expand with such a limited figure pool. Especially since Tusken's have such a unique look and its not much better for other species.

Finally, we've got a lot of pirate support, but where is Kragan Gorr? His gang (Warbirds) are here, Pyre has synergy potential, and he's named in flavour text, give me my Pirate Squid Man!
adamb0nd
Posted: Saturday, January 15, 2022 1:13:26 PM
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The limited figure pool for tuskens is unfortunate. But lack of good proxies shouldn't hold them back. On the plus side, tuskens from imperial assault are on a good scale, and Etsy is full of nice looking 3d printed star wars figs.
TimmerB123
Posted: Saturday, January 15, 2022 1:21:10 PM
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adamb0nd wrote:
The limited figure pool for tuskens is unfortunate. But lack of good proxies shouldn't hold them back. On the plus side, tuskens from imperial assault are on a good scale, and Etsy is full of nice looking 3d printed star wars figs.


Agreed. We’ve managed with Vong as a whole faction with a paltry amount of sculpts (percentage). Some of the recommended minis are ridiculous to be honest, but the stats are what are more important in my opinion.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Saturday, January 15, 2022 2:21:33 PM
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adamb0nd wrote:
The limited figure pool for tuskens is unfortunate. But lack of good proxies shouldn't hold them back. On the plus side, tuskens from imperial assault are on a good scale, and Etsy is full of nice looking 3d printed star wars figs.


If Tuskens are going to actually be a subfaction, Vsets shouldn't use the Tusken WotCs as recommended minis anyway. That's what happened with Imperial Knights, and when they eventually became viable it became an absolute mess trying to figure out what's what on the board. The regular Imperial Knight RMs were used too much.
Cassus fett
Posted: Saturday, January 15, 2022 5:07:54 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
adamb0nd wrote:
The limited figure pool for tuskens is unfortunate. But lack of good proxies shouldn't hold them back. On the plus side, tuskens from imperial assault are on a good scale, and Etsy is full of nice looking 3d printed star wars figs.


If Tuskens are going to actually be a subfaction, Vsets shouldn't use the Tusken WotCs as recommended minis anyway. That's what happened with Imperial Knights, and when they eventually became viable it became an absolute mess trying to figure out what's what on the board. The regular Imperial Knight RMs were used too much.


Big True. Imperial knight (female) is the recommended miniature for half the VSET imperial knights
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