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Code of Conduct: Enforcement? Options
Joruus_Cbaoth
Posted: Sunday, December 27, 2009 7:15:38 PM
Rank: Gungan Shieldbearer
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/27/2008
Posts: 11
Hello fellow Milkees,

I've got a huge question that's of udder-- Uuugh, sorry. Too easy.

I've got a huge question that's of utter importance. What could this question be? The answer to life the universe and everything? Nope! This, in fact, is pretty straight forward:

How is the brand new Code of Conduct, or CoC, being enforced?

As I'm sure many of you noticed, there was quite the argument going on over the span of the past several days, and in a slew of different topics. I'm not going to delve into the details of those arguments, but it's easy enough to spot the carnage it left in its wake; Edited posts and deleted posts, moved topics and deleted topics, updates to the current CoC and at least one temporary ban, which should be wearing off... If it hasn't already.

Hurt feelings and harsh words are at the bottom of that list. Things like that are minuscule in the grand scheme of things. All we need to know in the aftermath is that people misbehaved. To put it nicely.

Although it's true some of the users didn't break any rules, they violated the intent of the rules; else-wise, why would the moderators have any reason to update the CoC? ... What's this? Only a half a dozen sentences later and we're back to the Code of Conduct? That's crazy talk!

The intent of the CoC was not only bent or twisted, but violated. We all have different notions of what "violate" means... To some, it might mean to break the rules set in place; to others, it may mean they cheated or wormed their way past the system. Why don't we take a quick peek at what the definition means!

Violate:
To breach, contaminate, contravene, encroach, err, infract, infringe, meddle, offend, oppose, outrage, profane, resist, sacrilege, sin, tamper with, transgress, trespass, withstand. To disregard. To disrupt. To defy. To disobey. Or, in the past-tense, to be trampled upon.

That is what happened this past week and over the course of multiple weeks; through private messages leading up to the long-weekend.

So what's that have to do with anything now? These updated rules were enforced retroactively and the offensive parties were permanently banned, right? You'd think that would've been the case!

Nope.

On a site built primarily for a younger generation, a generation of children; the parties at fault were given a slap on the wrist and sent along their merry way. In fact, as I'm writing this post, I can see some of those users online right now. Clearly any ban that existed has long since expired... If they were issued one in the first place.

What type of lesson does that teach children? It's okay to threaten, to harass, to pile on obscenities until they stop making sense... So long as the pizza place (the game store, the library, the school, et al) doesn't have any rules saying you shouldn't? And what then? Those with any authority will tell you "Nope. That's bad. You're not allowed to buy a pizza here for two days", before posting an updated list of rules?

So I'm asking for this: A retroactive and permanent banning of all parties who have broken the following rules.

Bloomilk's Code of Conduct wrote:
1) No swearing. Profanity on these boards is not permitted and will be edited out of posts containing them. There are plenty of other four letter words to replace them that do not offend the senses; you can use them as long as they are not offensive.

2) No personal attacks. This leads to flame wars and is just generally not very nice, and will also be edited or removed from posts containing them. This includes things like name calling. We are here to discuss the topic, not the poster and if someone violates this rule or attacks you, don't feed into it by responding, get a mod instead.

3) Anyone who threaten or promote physical violence to a member's pm and/or in the forums, that user will be banned permanently, not a suspension, no warnings... that person will be banned for good. So please watch how you say, you are responsible for your actions.


Short of that, what else needs to be done? Anything less will be a complete slap in the face to myself, as well as quite a few other users.



If I were a different poster, some users might immediately agree with me. Others might disagree. Some might care about what I say. Others might not.

Coming from a different poster, this post could be considered as trolling.

Coming from a different poster, this post might actually make you stop and think.

Coming from a really different poster, this might be deciphered as a secret message, detailing the instructions of how to bypass the security system on the third floor of the Wizards of the Coast Headquarters. Abort Mission.

But I'm not a different poster... I'm not a "personality" that anyone would recognize. I'm not the Content Manager or GenCon Champion. I'm not a moderator on any site and I'm more content to lurk than to post.

I'm a player.

I may do well at GenCon, or consistently win the tournaments at my LGS. I may enjoy winning a little bit too much from time-to-time... Some days, I even enjoy talking to Content Managers and GenCon Champions (Some days. Not everyday!), but I'm still a player. I buy the pieces, I build my squads, I play the game.

Just like everyone else.

I joined Bloomilk on March Twenty-Seventh, Two Thousand and Eight (3/27/2008): The day Bloomilk was founded. I haven't stopped using it since, but so help me, if a slap on the wrist is all the Bloomilk community has to offer, consider this my goodbye.

-Phillip Carlisle
jew3
Posted: Sunday, December 27, 2009 7:24:53 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/14/2008
Posts: 110
Location: Olivet MI
Very well written. You bring up some key points and I completely see your point of view.
I think this should/could be the starting point of a new and revitalized BlooMilk Forums. I am happy to see someone else supporting the CoC.
billiv15
Posted: Monday, December 28, 2009 1:17:54 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
Nice post Phillip.
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, December 28, 2009 1:28:09 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator, Rules Guy

Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
Punishments will not be discussed publically. If you feel someone deserves a permanant banning, please contact Shinja, as he is the only one authorized. As for suspensions, the mod's roles have been clarified. That said, retroactive enforcement does not sit well with me.
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:08:53 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 5/8/2008
Posts: 2,219
Location: East Coast
Thank you for the post and well intended thoughts Joruus. (good to hear from ya)

We have dealt with the issues with the appropriate actions and the members involved know what the CoC rules are (hopefully a little better with the update) and how to abide by them. They have been noted and if a future breaking of the CoC rules happens by the same individuals, then an appropriate action will be taken at that time.

Hopefully the actions over the weekend have shown that the moderators will be stepping up the enforcement of the CoC rules. If any member feels that another member has violated the CoC rules, please contact a moderator immediately. If you do not, we will not be able to enforce the appropriate disciplinary action(s).

If you have an issue with a moderator, go to another moderator or directly to Shinja.

That being said, I (personally as another member) hope that people start to understand that you just shouldn't and can't start verbally attacking other members on this or any other site. Either via PM/Bloomail or in the forums. Keep it clean and keep it safe. Most of all: enjoy the site and game! ;)
billiv15
Posted: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:44:35 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
imyurhukaberry wrote:

We have dealt with the issues with the appropriate actions and the members involved know what the CoC rules are (hopefully a little better with the update) and how to abide by them. They have been noted and if a future breaking of the CoC rules happens by the same individuals, then an appropriate action will be taken at that time.


So if I read this properly, then you are also telling us that those who have done awful things on this website will not be further punished? That is your end result? Or has action been taken that you are not telling us?

Is there going to be any effort on the part of the mods to get these people to make up to the community for the harm they have caused, or are we just going to all have to pretend nothing ever happened? That's what your post seems to suggest, as well as the others before it, so I am just trying to get the correct answer. Further, if that is the case, that response is certainly not satisfactory.

LoboStele
Posted: Monday, December 28, 2009 6:01:34 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/3/2008
Posts: 584
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Excellent post Phillip. I do have to agree that the punishment to date has seemed to be quite lax. I have tried to stay out of this whole thing, and mostly just read threads when I had a chance. Once again, being not on the computer over the weekends (which is usually the case for me), and I missed all the action, lol. Anyways, I don't know what 'action' was taken against the offending parties, but if it isn't permanent, let's just hope that it's at least a 'strike two' sort of scenario, where if they are let back into the community at some point, it's on some seriously thin ice.

Perhaps there is some way to bring back suspended members on some form of limited basis. Where they can read threads or create squads, but can't reply to threads and can't comment/rate squads.

Though it would be interesting to see if the Mods were to scour all threads from the history of Bloomilk, and ban anyone who has used a swear word. I bet a lot more people than we realize would be perma-banned. Laugh
shinja
Posted: Monday, December 28, 2009 6:58:41 AM
Rank: Administration
Groups: Administration

Joined: 10/2/2008
Posts: 351
Location: Kent, WA
I think everyone has the same goal moving forward: for Bloo Milk to be a safe, friendly community. If someone who has broken the rules in the past never breaks another one, then we are still accomplishing that goal (Bloo Milk is safe and friendly). If someone does step out of line again, then they will be dealt with at that time. That said, we're still working on the regretably necessary task of tightening up the CoC and clarifying mod responsibilities and procedures.

LoboStele wrote:
Though it would be interesting to see if the Mods were to scour all threads from the history of Bloomilk, and ban anyone who has used a swear word. I bet a lot more people than we realize would be perma-banned. Laugh


This is a key point. Some of the people calling for punishments are guilty themselves.

I personally apologize to anyone who has been offended by something that was posted on Bloo Milk. I naively believed too much in the maturity of the community, and didn't put enough effort into dealing with problems.

But that effort is being made now, and we're pretty much moving forward with a clean slate at this point (with certain members on "thin ice" or a "short leash" or "under close scrutiny" or however you want to word it). I really don't want anyone to quit the site over this, but I think this is the right decision for the site at this time, and I'm willing to accept the consequences of the decision.
billiv15
Posted: Monday, December 28, 2009 7:29:51 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
shinja wrote:
I personally apologize to anyone who has been offended by something that was posted on Bloo Milk. I naively believed too much in the maturity of the community, and didn't put enough effort into dealing with problems.

But that effort is being made now, and we're pretty much moving forward with a clean slate at this point (with certain members on "thin ice" or a "short leash" or "under close scrutiny" or however you want to word it). I really don't want anyone to quit the site over this, but I think this is the right decision for the site at this time, and I'm willing to accept the consequences of the decision.


It isn't your apology that was ever necessary. But unfortunately, this is a very poor decision on your part, and makes it sound like every action was indeed "equal" in negativity to the site, it's members, and it's community. You have chosen to keep a certain member and all the value he has brought to the community at the expense of me, and I am sure others. I can't say I'm surprised by this, but it is what it is.

It also means that you in fact endorse his past behaviors, by choosing not to penalize him one bit for it. That is sad indeed.
Eroschilles
Posted: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:21:47 PM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 812
Location: Parkville, MD
billiv15 wrote:
shinja wrote:
I personally apologize to anyone who has been offended by something that was posted on Bloo Milk. I naively believed too much in the maturity of the community, and didn't put enough effort into dealing with problems.

But that effort is being made now, and we're pretty much moving forward with a clean slate at this point (with certain members on "thin ice" or a "short leash" or "under close scrutiny" or however you want to word it). I really don't want anyone to quit the site over this, but I think this is the right decision for the site at this time, and I'm willing to accept the consequences of the decision.


It isn't your apology that was ever necessary. But unfortunately, this is a very poor decision on your part, and makes it sound like every action was indeed "equal" in negativity to the site, it's members, and it's community. You have chosen to keep a certain member and all the value he has brought to the community at the expense of me, and I am sure others. I can't say I'm surprised by this, but it is what it is.

It also means that you in fact endorse his past behaviors, by choosing not to penalize him one bit for it. That is sad indeed.


I would not say he endorses it in the slightest, as he has said he does not support those actions.

@Joruus I do not agree with retroactively applying punishments to everyone involved because I'm used to the American sense of legal justice where one cannot be retroactively punished for laws that were written after they committed the crimes. Also, if we followed your request and banned everyone who violated one of the CoC rules, then there would be quite a few bans.

Just because you do not agree with the levels of punishments handed out does not mean they are unfair. The moderators and Shinja have to be trusted with their decisions in this regard. They are not doing nothing, and they cannot just take one side into account and hand out punishments as such.

If anyone wants to discuss explicit examples and or situations, PM and I may be able to further explain the reasons behind any actions that have been taken. As said before, punishments will not be discussed publically.
Cybit
Posted: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 3:44:55 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 10/13/2008
Posts: 89
Location: Seattle
It's unfortunate that it had to come to this, but, at least everyone knows where things stand, and from here on out.

Also, I think everyone deserves a clean start from here. If they slip up, drop the hammer, otherwise, let's just move on. Too many people wanting revenge for one slight or another, deserved or not, an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
joelker41
Posted: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 3:54:51 PM
Rank: Grand Master Yoda
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/13/2008
Posts: 508
billiv15 wrote:
shinja wrote:
I personally apologize to anyone who has been offended by something that was posted on Bloo Milk. I naively believed too much in the maturity of the community, and didn't put enough effort into dealing with problems.

But that effort is being made now, and we're pretty much moving forward with a clean slate at this point (with certain members on "thin ice" or a "short leash" or "under close scrutiny" or however you want to word it). I really don't want anyone to quit the site over this, but I think this is the right decision for the site at this time, and I'm willing to accept the consequences of the decision.


It isn't your apology that was ever necessary. But unfortunately, this is a very poor decision on your part, and makes it sound like every action was indeed "equal" in negativity to the site, it's members, and it's community. You have chosen to keep a certain member and all the value he has brought to the community at the expense of me, and I am sure others. I can't say I'm surprised by this, but it is what it is.

It also means that you in fact endorse his past behaviors, by choosing not to penalize him one bit for it. That is sad indeed.


That simply you being tired and angrey long spat of irritation talking. While certain members are more volatile (as shinja said some are on thin ice, so it is a conditional clean slate) it appears to me that order is restored for the time being. When authority isn't visible anarchy ensues now shinja is back, visible, and made a strong statement. All three should turn this around in a hurry.

If it doesn't (again shinja's words not mine) the offenders will be dealt with.

Getting rid of people isn't the goal of a site or a moderator, their goals are to be MODERATING not executing. I for one am happy to see some law around here.

Welcome back shinja!Woot
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