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Incorporating V-Set into a group of vanilla players Options
TheHutts
Posted: Sunday, April 7, 2013 8:26:34 PM
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Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
Out of interest, how many players do you have in your playgroup?

Personally, I think that Star Wars Miniatures can be problematic as a casual game, as there are some components that can be balanced in a tournament but devastating in a one-off casual game - for example, an IG-Lancer powered by GGDAC can demolish an otherwise strong Gungan squad in one activation. While in a tournament, the powerful pieces tend to balance each other out. For example, a year ago, Mace was doing very well in our local tournaments (in New Zealand), but in our tournament on Saturday noone even ran him. I don't think he would have done very well, as among other things there were three IG-88A/IG-88 Assassin droids in the top 8, which Mace would have struggled against. In the same way, there are some v-set pieces like Exar Kun Dark Force Spirit and Admiral Pellaeon that make it much more difficult for the Soresu Style Mastery pieces.

So if you're able to, I think implementing a competitive structure can work well. In New Zealand, Kezzamachine has done a great job of implementing a tournament structure with trophies and rankings. It helps that he's an enthusiastic and charismatic leader, but he had 18 of us at LowerHuttACon this weekend, all enthusiastically trying to play competitive squads. Out of interest too, the winning squad was almost entirely wotc pieces - the squad relied on the game controlling abilities of Thrawn, Ozzel's activation control, and Cad Bane's finishing power.

That's just one way to go, but it works well for us in New Zealand! Your idea of at least using some v-set pieces sounds great to me - I think it's good to have some new pieces to keep things fresh.
DaKeyring
Posted: Sunday, April 7, 2013 11:05:44 PM
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IMHO i think that the V-sets have no place in the competitive game.
EmporerDragon
Posted: Monday, April 8, 2013 1:10:49 AM
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DaKeyring wrote:
IMHO i think that the V-sets have no place in the competitive game.


Without the V-sets though, Wizards wound up bottle-necking the meta down to a half-dozen squad archetypes at best, and with that little variety, the competitive scene would've stagnated and died if not for the V-sets.
obiwan1knight
Posted: Monday, April 8, 2013 5:37:13 AM
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Location: Voss
I agree that the V-sets saved the game, have a bunch of cool new things that really help out the factions that needed it (Old Republic, Vong, Mando). But I also have played V-set pieces and seen V-set pieces played that ARE to overpowered for their cost, and I in my group has just started coming up with a list of banned pieces. And there aren't really many that need to go on that list in my opinion.

Again, all in fun, because it is a game after all. :)

thereisnotry
Posted: Monday, April 8, 2013 7:39:28 AM
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To the OP, I think it's great that you guys are starting to allow some V-Set pieces into your games! If nothing else, they'll bring variety. I think you'll find that several of the V-Set pieces also help to bring older and un-used WotC pieces back into play (Sevrance Tann for huge figs, Jan ors for the old 31pt Kyle Katarn, etc).

I just want to suggest an alternative to banning a certain piece: houserule it instead.
--Is Mace a problem? Then I'd suggest dropping Flurry and see how he works.
--You hate Zannah? Then maybe remove her Force Bubble and Lightsaber Combat Expert...she's fine after you do that.
That's one of the great things about local play groups: you can houserule anything to make it more palatable for your players.

I would definitely advise caution when it comes to houseruling game mechanics, but for specific individual pieces you can't really go wrong with houserules. If a certain houserule works well, then you've opened doors; if it still needs to be tweaked after a few matches, then so be it.
Darth_Reignir
Posted: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 7:00:05 AM
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Joined: 7/3/2010
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TheHutts wrote:
Out of interest, how many players do you have in your playgroup?

Personally, I think that Star Wars Miniatures can be problematic as a casual game, as there are some components that can be balanced in a tournament but devastating in a one-off casual game - for example, an IG-Lancer powered by GGDAC can demolish an otherwise strong Gungan squad in one activation. While in a tournament, the powerful pieces tend to balance each other out. For example, a year ago, Mace was doing very well in our local tournaments (in New Zealand), but in our tournament on Saturday noone even ran him. I don't think he would have done very well, as among other things there were three IG-88A/IG-88 Assassin droids in the top 8, which Mace would have struggled against. In the same way, there are some v-set pieces like Exar Kun Dark Force Spirit and Admiral Pellaeon that make it much more difficult for the Soresu Style Mastery pieces.

So if you're able to, I think implementing a competitive structure can work well. In New Zealand, Kezzamachine has done a great job of implementing a tournament structure with trophies and rankings. It helps that he's an enthusiastic and charismatic leader, but he had 18 of us at LowerHuttACon this weekend, all enthusiastically trying to play competitive squads. Out of interest too, the winning squad was almost entirely wotc pieces - the squad relied on the game controlling abilities of Thrawn, Ozzel's activation control, and Cad Bane's finishing power.

That's just one way to go, but it works well for us in New Zealand! Your idea of at least using some v-set pieces sounds great to me - I think it's good to have some new pieces to keep things fresh.


We have about 10 total players, 5 of which return reliably.

I completely disagree however about the game being problematic as a casual game, although your argument does hold weight. The problem we've encountered is that - even if ONE person is playing a tournament team - it ruins it for the casual players. Our solution has been to just go after that person and remove him from the game. Maybe in time, he will learn :P
Darth_Reignir
Posted: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 7:02:50 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 7/3/2010
Posts: 354
thereisnotry wrote:
To the OP, I think it's great that you guys are starting to allow some V-Set pieces into your games! If nothing else, they'll bring variety. I think you'll find that several of the V-Set pieces also help to bring older and un-used WotC pieces back into play (Sevrance Tann for huge figs, Jan ors for the old 31pt Kyle Katarn, etc).

I just want to suggest an alternative to banning a certain piece: houserule it instead.
--Is Mace a problem? Then I'd suggest dropping Flurry and see how he works.
--You hate Zannah? Then maybe remove her Force Bubble and Lightsaber Combat Expert...she's fine after you do that.
That's one of the great things about local play groups: you can houserule anything to make it more palatable for your players.

.


This is the plan. There are a lot of V-Set pieces, which even *I* would argue are neat, but it's hard to just 'play V-Set' when you have some broken pieces - and there are broken pieces - running around.

We're going to take Mace's Flurry and triple damage away.
We're going to simply ban Darth Z.

I mean, what choice do we have? We've been playing completely vanilla, which to me has been great, but there are players in our group itching for V-Set again, and I have to throw them a bone at some point.
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