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Romney or Obama Options
Lord_Ball
Posted: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 4:07:11 AM
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Joined: 4/19/2010
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personally I reserve my right not to vote - People say that if you don't vote you can't complain, well I say bull as no candidate has given me reason to vote FOR them - sure there's plenty of reasons to vote AGAINST the other guy, but that is no honest reason to vote FOR 1 liar over another.
knappskirata
Posted: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 4:13:43 AM
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True
CerousMutor
Posted: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 5:23:53 AM
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Joined: 8/27/2008
Posts: 990
jak wrote:
wannabe mexican wrote:
If I could vote, I would most likely take a pen into the booth and write my own name on the ballot and then stab a hole next to it. Or tick the box, or whatever.

Politicians these days seem to leave a lot to be desired. In the last UK elections I voted for myself too.


+1
an awesome plan!

maybe we need Great Brittain back in charge!Unsure Drool


Epic! Back to the days of colonies!
Then again I dont think our lot would do a great job.

With all the money our Government has given to european banks to help sort their countries out, they could have given every British Tax payer 60,000. That would have certainly helped our economy dont you think?
But hey I'm not driven the bus, I'm just sat at the back shouting lol
jak
Posted: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 6:16:41 AM
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Lord_Ball wrote:
personally I reserve my right not to vote - People say that if you don't vote you can't complain, well I say bull as no candidate has given me reason to vote FOR them - sure there's plenty of reasons to vote AGAINST the other guy, but that is no honest reason to vote FOR 1 liar over another.


+3.78
swinefeld
Posted: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 7:04:01 AM
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Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,457
Location: Southern Illinois
gwek wrote:
Many folk don't realize that the president we elect this year may appoint as many of three Supreme Court justices. That's the hidden battle, the "phantom menace," if you will, and is one reason that both parties are fighting tooth and nail.


"the phantom menace" That, good sir, is worthy of a BlooMilk.

gwek wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
Four more words. Our congress absolutely sucks.


Yeah, but it's kind of supposed to, isn't it? In the whole checks-and-balances thing, the purpose of the legislative branch is to retard progress. Historically, the whole intent was that one man (or even nine men) shouldn't be able to enact sweeping national change based on personal or short-term preference. Seems like the folk we're currently saddled with may be the most successful congress in history, as defined by the founding fathers.


Lol, you may be right about that, but as the legislature is supposed to be "voice" of the people, approval ratings around 10% aren't exactly good indicators of that "success". Wink
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:04:57 AM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,408
swinefeld wrote:
gwek wrote:
Many folk don't realize that the president we elect this year may appoint as many of three Supreme Court justices. That's the hidden battle, the "phantom menace," if you will, and is one reason that both parties are fighting tooth and nail.


"the phantom menace" That, good sir, is worthy of a BlooMilk.

gwek wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
Four more words. Our congress absolutely sucks.


Yeah, but it's kind of supposed to, isn't it? In the whole checks-and-balances thing, the purpose of the legislative branch is to retard progress. Historically, the whole intent was that one man (or even nine men) shouldn't be able to enact sweeping national change based on personal or short-term preference. Seems like the folk we're currently saddled with may be the most successful congress in history, as defined by the founding fathers.


Lol, you may be right about that, but as the legislature is supposed to be "voice" of the people, approval ratings around 10% aren't exactly good indicators of that "success". Wink


The checks and balances are a bit out of whack. In addition to the three branches, another form of checks and balances was supposed to be states versus federal government. With Senators now being directly elected by the people, instead of elected by the state governments, the state governments no longer have any representation in Washington. As such, the Federal government trumps state government nearly 100% of the time. Add to that the sweeping powers granted to the federal government by the Supreme Court's loose interpretation of the commerce clause and other emanations and penumbras, and you're left with a government that can do whatever it wants.
501 Trooper
Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:57:11 PM
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I think I'll start campaigning for BOBA FETT 2012 ThumbsUp
SuperYodaMan
Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:14:21 PM
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Location: Minnesota, USA
FlyingArrow wrote:
With Senators now being directly elected by the people, instead of elected by the state governments, the state governments no longer have any representation in Washington. As such, the Federal government trumps state government nearly 100% of the time. Add to that the sweeping powers granted to the federal government by the Supreme Court's loose interpretation of the commerce clause and other emanations and penumbras, and you're left with a government that can do whatever it wants.

Please explain how direct election by the people in each state means that US Senators aren't representative of the states in Washington. If they were elected by the state governments, the result would be largely the same because the state government is elected by the people anyway. Direct election of Senators was a good change that occurred almost 100 years ago.

However, I do agree with your assertion that the states have little representation anymore and about the loose interpretation of the commerce clause (requiring people to have health care and fining them if they don't, anyone?). The Fed and the Supreme Court also completely ignore the 10th Amendment. Things like education and healthcare (to name only two) ought to be left exclusively to the states. The amount of power creep, if you will, of the Fed over the past few decades is astonishing. That being said, I don't think the system's broken. It's the best possible system that a country could have. Unfortunately, the people running the system are broken, and people are much more difficult to fix than a system.
MaliciousCrumb
Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:16:29 PM
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501 Trooper wrote:
I think I'll start campaigning for BOBA FETT 2012 ThumbsUp


Never! JANGO FETT FOREVER!!
501 Trooper
Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:22:13 PM
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Location: Wisconsin
MaliciousCrumb wrote:
501 Trooper wrote:
I think I'll start campaigning for BOBA FETT 2012 ThumbsUp


Never! JANGO FETT FOREVER!!


We'll carry this to another thread. I'll call it Boba or Jango For President.
Sithborg
Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:16:40 PM
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Lord_Ball wrote:
personally I reserve my right not to vote - People say that if you don't vote you can't complain, well I say bull as no candidate has given me reason to vote FOR them - sure there's plenty of reasons to vote AGAINST the other guy, but that is no honest reason to vote FOR 1 liar over another.


And yet, there won't just be two names on your ballot. Sure, only two names that matter, but imo, it is better to vote your conscience even in the unlikelyhood of victory, than saying screw the system. And really, the presidential election one decision, among many that should be on you ballot.
jedispyder
Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:07:22 PM
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If you don't agree with the main 2 candidates, at least check out the other candidates (Green and Libertarian). It's a right to vote and even if you don't think your vote will count since it's not for the main 2, it still is patriotic.
gwek
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:29:55 AM
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Since the idea has been sort or referenced more than once, I respectfully submit (and suspect it may be a controversial viewpoint) that adherence to the word of the Constitution rather than its spirit is highly problematic. For example, when the Founding Fathers talked about the right to bear arms, they were talking about muskets, and were motivated by the feat that the country would be unable to defend itself against foreign invasion, not that lunatics should stockpile automatic weapons out of a paranoid fear that the revenooers might be a'comin'.

Further, the idea that the states should have equal power to the federal government is a relic of the time. It is good that the states have their say, but when one looks at the educational disparity between states (and even often within states), I think some sort of higher authority is in order. The Founding Fathers envisioned the United States of America as exactly that a series of united but distinct STATES. Today, we are a instead single sovereign entity. When the Constitution was drafted, the telephone was as-yet-unimagined, much less the Internet. The very idea that the United States would be competing in a global market against China would have been laughed off, as would have been equal rights for women and minorities.

The world is very different today than it was two centuries ago.
Lord_Ball
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:58:46 AM
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Sithborg wrote:
Lord_Ball wrote:
personally I reserve my right not to vote - People say that if you don't vote you can't complain, well I say bull as no candidate has given me reason to vote FOR them - sure there's plenty of reasons to vote AGAINST the other guy, but that is no honest reason to vote FOR 1 liar over another.


And yet, there won't just be two names on your ballot. Sure, only two names that matter, but imo, it is better to vote your conscience even in the unlikelyhood of victory, than saying screw the system. And really, the presidential election one decision, among many that should be on you ballot.


The thing is for me it isn't a matter of "I'm only one vote and it won't matter" it's that so far I don't feel anyone running is WORTHY of my vote, I'm not going to vote for someone just because it's my right - that's no different than "hiring" someone unqualified to do a job and they muck it up - frankly that has been happening WAY too often in and out of government! If after the debates or perhaps as we get closer to the election I may deem someone worthy of my vote, until then It's my right and so far I'm choosing not to practice it.

Back in 2008 when Obama was running against Clinton for the Democratic candidacy he sounded worthy - and I was thinking of voting for him, but then against McCain the #1 word I heard him say was "SPEND" and he lost my vote.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 5:48:13 AM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,408
SuperYodaMan wrote:
Please explain how direct election by the people in each state means that US Senators aren't representative of the states in Washington. If they were elected by the state governments, the result would be largely the same because the state government is elected by the people anyway. Direct election of Senators was a good change that occurred almost 100 years ago.


If US Senators were selected by the state legislatures, they would protect the interests of the state governments. Otherwise, the legislatures wouldn't return them to the US Senate. With direct election by the people, Senators don't have to worry about the power of the state governments - very few people make the balance of state government/federal government power an election issue.

Quote:
loose interpretation of the commerce clause


Wickard v. Filburn is the most absurd example I can think of - and that's from the 1940's. If you aren't familiar with it - read about it. It sounds like it came from theonion.com.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 5:52:22 AM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,408
Sithborg wrote:
Lord_Ball wrote:
personally I reserve my right not to vote - People say that if you don't vote you can't complain, well I say bull as no candidate has given me reason to vote FOR them - sure there's plenty of reasons to vote AGAINST the other guy, but that is no honest reason to vote FOR 1 liar over another.


And yet, there won't just be two names on your ballot. Sure, only two names that matter, but imo, it is better to vote your conscience even in the unlikelyhood of victory, than saying screw the system. And really, the presidential election one decision, among many that should be on you ballot.


A third-party vote is a wasted vote in terms of determining who wins the election. On the other hand, if you care more about changing the conversation than winning an election, a third-party vote could be worthwhile. Ross Perot, Ralph Nader, and Ron Paul are three people who were/are outside the party establishments, but they got enough of a following that the mainstream candidates paid attention to their positions/followers to some extent in order to try to earn their votes.
jak
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 8:25:10 AM
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jedispyder wrote:
If you don't agree with the main 2 candidates, at least check out the other candidates (Green and Libertarian). It's a right to vote and even if you don't think your vote will count since it's not for the main 2, it still is patriotic.
ThumpUp

+1776BlooMilk

The best advice on voting.
I agree 100%

jak
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 8:26:46 AM
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gwek wrote:
Since the idea has been sort or referenced more than once, I respectfully submit (and suspect it may be a controversial viewpoint) that adherence to the word of the Constitution rather than its spirit is highly problematic. For example, when the Founding Fathers talked about the right to bear arms, they were talking about muskets, and were motivated by the feat that the country would be unable to defend itself against foreign invasion, not that lunatics should stockpile automatic weapons out of a paranoid fear that the revenooers might be a'comin'.

The world is very different today than it was two centuries ago.


A great topic for another threadCool
cicrush13
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 9:58:41 AM
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saber1 wrote:
Its not a great list of choices, but it looks like its down to Romney and Obama. So here's how I look at it.

R: Successful businessman
O: Successful politician

R: Impressive track record
O: Poor track record even he runs from

R: I'll likely pay less at the pump
O: I'll continue sending obscene amounts of money to countries hostile to the USA

R: More likely I'll keep my job
O: Likely to cripple my company

R: Might lead to private sector job growth
O: Will continue food stamp growth

R: Might enforce the border
O: Will continue to reward criminals

R: Wants equal opportunity for success
O: Works towards equal outcomes of mediocrity

R: Holds constitution in high esteem
O: Holds constitution in contempt

R: Understands the economy
O: Destroys the economy

R: Wants to balance budget
O: Record deficits, record debt

R: Buck stops here
O: Blame Bush

R: Might fix social security/medicare
O: Will use gimmicks to pass problem off to the next guy

R: Will work to take less of my paycheck
O: Has taken, and will take, more of my earnings

R: NASA will again reach to the stars
O: NASA reaches to other cultures

Seems clear to me. I realize it may not seem as clear to some and we can respectfully disagree.




I completely agree.

I am a hard working American who wants to see nothing more than our country succeed.
I think that it is clear we have one candidate who wants to lower the US to the world's standard and another who wants the US to be back on top where we once were.

This is an election that will determine the future for our children and grandchildren. I want to make sure I do my part.
swinefeld
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 11:54:24 AM
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Joined: 1/30/2009
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Location: Southern Illinois
gwek wrote:
Further, the idea that the states should have equal power to the federal government is a relic of the time. It is good that the states have their say, but when one looks at the educational disparity between states (and even often within states), I think some sort of higher authority is in order.


Well said. There are some severely disfunctional state governments, education not withstanding.
(I live in Illinois, for a prime example)
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