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Map Discussion: Asteroid Base Options
TheHutts
Posted: Monday, April 15, 2013 6:29:49 PM
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OK, here's another map from the terrific Map Pack 4: Fortresses and Strongholds, released by Jedi Cartographer and Armored Gear in 2010.



Made by: Armored Cartographer
Year of Release: 2010
Current Status: Restricted List C

- what do you like about this map?
- what squads does it suit?
- which side do you normally choose?
- a memorable game on this map?
- and anything else you want to talk about

You can buy this map from http://www.miniaturemarket.com/collectible-miniatures/star-wars-miniatures/star-wars-maps/armored-cartographers-strongholds-and-fortresses-double-sided-map-asteroid-base-royal-palace.html

Previously profiled maps:

Restricted A:
Cloud City: http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12364
Peaceful City: http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12158

Restricted B:
Cliffside Citadel: http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12323
Simulation Deck: http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12144

Restricted C:
Commander's Office/Ravaged Base: http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12131

Other:
Throne Room/Chancellor's Starship: http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12285
corranhorn
Posted: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 12:20:12 PM
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I've never used this map and I don't think I want to post any more "critiques" of maps I don't have but I don't want this thread to sink to the bottomless depths of the forums, so bump!.
keet fisto
Posted: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 12:54:13 PM
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I like it. Nice and balanced.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 2:53:38 PM
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If you're not careful, the right side is susceptible to an early deep strike, since there is no way to set up the squad behind a door. Overall, this map has a reputation for being one of the more melee friendly maps.
captaingig
Posted: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 3:49:54 PM
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Love this map. Plenty of long lines of sight, lots of cover and just enough doors to say so. Three distinct lanes with great opportunities for cross fire as well. Daddy like.
Jedicartographer
Posted: Thursday, April 18, 2013 10:28:41 AM
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Meh. Smile

This is the last map I ever made on Corel Paint Shop Pro. It's cool. I played one or 2 games on it. I think its probably one of the better competetive maps out there.

I drew this map out in 10 minutes on my lunch break. I think I may be an idiot savant about maps, because I dont even try on most of them, it just happens, But I can barely tie my shoes.

Echo24
Posted: Thursday, April 18, 2013 11:06:08 AM
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Definitely one of my favorite maps. It's one of the best ones for a melee-heavy team, but there are still long enough lines of sight that it isn't too imbalanced in their favor. Fast melee squads can especially do well. Always my map of choice when playing my Czulkang Lah Epic squad, and I've had success even against the Lord Hoth Epic squads.
urbanjedi
Posted: Thursday, April 18, 2013 4:52:36 PM
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Also can be tough on swap as there are lots of doors and other obstacles. I know that Bill smoked me on this map with Kybuck (I was with Echanis) because during the whole match it felt like I couldn't get a line to anything I needed to and couldn't get anywhere to swap. Overall it is one of the better melee maps IMO and rewards great play. No, "oops, I win" like there are on some maps.

jhc36
Posted: Friday, April 19, 2013 5:54:53 AM
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Location: Yuuzhan'tar
Melee centric map, which is why I used it in the Atlanta regional last year. I faired poorly in that regional, either because of too much alcohol the night before or the fact I built a poor yuuzhan vong squad.
adamb0nd
Posted: Friday, April 19, 2013 6:47:05 AM
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I havent played this one, but just by looking at it, its obvious, as others have stated, that this looks very melee friendly, which is a plus. Its also very door heavy, which people will say is probably a con.

However, I think at this point in the game, we all know that door control is a must have. Door Control is no different than having shooters in your squad... its a fundamental tactic in the game. A lot of people claim that override and door control = negative game experience, but the same argument could really be made about and special ability that has to be countered (stealth, commander effects, strafe/gallop, heck, even shooters). Despite the claims of how much of a problem door control already is, its actually the easiest tactic to counter (3 point ugnaught). I go into every game with at least 1 piece that can override/blow doors, because its just part of how you play this game.

So, that being said, this definitely does help the melee game, but it also helps the override game. I would have preferred less doors overall, but i think it still looks fun as is.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, January 30, 2015 9:13:50 AM
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urbanjedi wrote:
Also can be tough on swap as there are lots of doors and other obstacles. I know that Bill smoked me on this map with Kybuck (I was with Echanis) because during the whole match it felt like I couldn't get a line to anything I needed to and couldn't get anywhere to swap. Overall it is one of the better melee maps IMO and rewards great play. No, "oops, I win" like there are on some maps.



And then at GenCon 2014 you had Echanis and Bill had Skybuck. Go figure.
urbanjedi
Posted: Friday, January 30, 2015 11:02:35 AM
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Except neither of us was using this map. I was using jabbas palace and bill was using tomb of the accolytes
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, January 30, 2015 11:27:38 AM
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Override is a lame ability for many reasons. The reason being that there are only a few counters to it. blowing it open or some kind of door control (advanced door gimmick, etc.). I really believe that characters with a lightsaber ought to be able to replace attacks and slice open a door. That would be more realistic anyway. Than you can also have different types of doors. Blast doors should have to replace turn for a lightsaber to get through it.

I just hate the idea of people in a room that cant be opened that turn because of speed 6 and out activating an opponent just to open the door, attack and than run into a different room and lock the door.

How many times have we seen a lightsaber cut a hole in a door with very little problem? Every jedi does it. Doors should not overpower jedi's
FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, January 30, 2015 12:06:37 PM
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jen'ari wrote:
Override is a lame ability for many reasons. The reason being that there are only a few counters to it. blowing it open or some kind of door control (advanced door gimmick, etc.). I really believe that characters with a lightsaber ought to be able to replace attacks and slice open a door. That would be more realistic anyway. Than you can also have different types of doors. Blast doors should have to replace turn for a lightsaber to get through it.

I just hate the idea of people in a room that cant be opened that turn because of speed 6 and out activating an opponent just to open the door, attack and than run into a different room and lock the door.

How many times have we seen a lightsaber cut a hole in a door with very little problem? Every jedi does it. Doors should not overpower jedi's


Different doors could make for some more interesting map interactions.

Christopher West has introduced two 'special' types of doors on some of his maps, but for standard skirmishes they are just treated as regular doors. He has the red-rectangle doors (instead of blue rectangles). That was intended to be a hidden or locked door that could only be opened with a special ability (Override/Satchel Charge for example), not through a normal door check. Of course that just makes Override even more powerful.

The other is a door with two parallel lines of blue rectangles. That was to indicate two separate doors along the same edge. The two doors would open/close separately. You could lock one while the other has been blown open, for example. That sort of mimicks a blast door. But a blast door would again just make door control even more important.

There is Door Shatter as a force power, but it hasn't been used much. It's also a pretty powerful door control ability since it is range 6, so I don't think it should be handed out like candy.

If we wanted to change core rules, though, I would favor adding a third standard force power (to Move Faster and Force Point Reroll). Replaces turn to destroy an adjacent door if you have a lightsaber.

At the beginning of episode 1, the Jedi failed to cut through the door in time. The time scale of the skirmish is supposed to be fast like that, so that cutting through a door may not be so easy. But for gameplay, I think it should suffice to have a lightsaber. You shouldn't have to have Satchel Charge, too.

FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, January 30, 2015 12:34:43 PM
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urbanjedi wrote:
Except neither of us was using this map. I was using jabbas palace and bill was using tomb of the accolytes


Right - I just found it funny that basically the same squads and the same players were matched up again.
urbanjedi
Posted: Friday, January 30, 2015 2:01:06 PM
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No that is funny. Guess the same old stuff can be good
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, January 30, 2015 5:52:46 PM
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Actually Qui Gon was going through the door pretty quickly. Than they closed the massive blast doors.
I wonder if we could make a commander that has an ability "close the blast doors" which makes it so that a door has to double blown up.

Anyway, There was a deleted scene where Grievous kills Shaak-ti, you see after the execution Obi and Anakin cut through the thick metal floor in less than a second. Very very fast.

I don't think for normal doors that it would take that long. I dont even understand override, didn't R2-D2 need to "plug in" before he could open a door? for instance, the trash compactor
TheHutts
Posted: Sunday, February 1, 2015 1:04:34 PM
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jen'ari wrote:
I don't think for normal doors that it would take that long. I dont even understand override, didn't R2-D2 need to "plug in" before he could open a door? for instance, the trash compactor


That was a door he didn't have line of sight to.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Sunday, February 1, 2015 2:18:43 PM
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It's all abstractions. The maps could have had a lot more details, but I guess it's good to keep it simple. "Computer terminal/scomp link" could have been a map feature, and plenty of abilities could have triggered off of it, including Override. But they went with simplicity. Windows appear on some maps, but they are ignored for skirmish play. Stairs and water are just 'difficult terrain' but they could have been their own terrain with their own rules. Indoor/outdoor (e.g. snow/desert) could have been a distinction somehow. Most maps don't even have clearly defined names (e.g. Ravaged Base/Commander's Office). If they did, rules could perhaps reference the map name or the terrain.

Simplicity is good, but you miss some stuff too.
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