RegisterDonateLogin

Look sir, Milk!

Welcome Guest Active Topics | Members

Get stuffed Disney Options
rundummy
Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 5:56:44 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/19/2008
Posts: 123
Location: AUSTRALIA
Sorry, I don't usually get too irked but is anyone else just a little bit annoyed by Disney taking over Star Wars and then saying "everything created about the SW Universe post RotJ is now wiped"? It's pretty darn arrogant and I think a stupid thing to do (admittedly I don't mind the whole Vong thing disappearing but not the Jedi Academy arc that was associated with it).

So we now have no Mara and butt-kicking Jedi-master Luke (who seems now to be some lost old hermit), Ben Skywalker, Anakin Solo and the twins (are Han and Leia even together or does that just end up with them hating each other?) plus all the other jedi. Sure, we get Chewie back (yeehaa!!) but just to simply wipe out a whole universe of storylines as though it means nothing gets my back up a bit. Who's idea was this anyway? AA Abrams??

Just the ramifications for the universe's space-time fabric of the fact that we will now have two parallel universes in the SW story line and thus operating at the same time is concerning lol! Personally I am not excited about the new movies, think it will depart significantly from the feeling of the others (especially Rogue One which just from the audio on the trailer sounds like a Platoon rehash)...oh well, maybe the world will end before then and not allow this new universe to enter into our current one.
Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 6:39:08 PM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator, Rules Guy

Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
First, the whole point of the Anthology movies are to be different types of stories. Got to keep the franchise fresh, unlike Marvel.

Second, do you really, really believe that where the novels left the universe and characters in a good place for a new movie? Let's just ignore that LOTF and FOTJ were terrible. Yes, some stuff will get thrown out. Some stuff will be reintegrated, most likely some of the most popular characters who are not related to the main characters.

As powerful as Disney is, they cannot come and destroy the old stuff that you have. So, feel free to enjoy them. Who cares if they are canon or not. I had already sort of ignored the bad, bad stuff of the EU. So, now Disney is doing the exact thing.

I don't know how any Star Wars fan can look at what we've gotten for The Force Awakens and not get excited.
obiwan1knight
Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 6:51:01 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 12/14/2011
Posts: 150
Location: Voss
+1 to Sithborg
AndyHatton
Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 7:09:21 PM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 8/9/2009
Posts: 1,935
+1 to Sithborg, exactly what I wanted to say

Also Lucas said for years the movies and the EU were separate. This is just a continuation of that policy for the movies.
rundummy
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:22:28 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/19/2008
Posts: 123
Location: AUSTRALIA
Sithborg wrote:
First, the whole point of the Anthology movies are to be different types of stories. Got to keep the franchise fresh, unlike Marvel.

Second, do you really, really believe that where the novels left the universe and characters in a good place for a new movie? Let's just ignore that LOTF and FOTJ were terrible. Yes, some stuff will get thrown out. Some stuff will be reintegrated, most likely some of the most popular characters who are not related to the main characters.

As powerful as Disney is, they cannot come and destroy the old stuff that you have. So, feel free to enjoy them. Who cares if they are canon or not. I had already sort of ignored the bad, bad stuff of the EU. So, now Disney is doing the exact thing.

I don't know how any Star Wars fan can look at what we've gotten for The Force Awakens and not get excited.


Ok first up I am a massive Star Wars fan, I saw them all when they first came out and loved them as a kid, had the first figurines ever, have read almost all the books etc etc. And currently I'm not super excited by the new movie mainly because, as I discussed above, the feel of the thing and also possibly the lack of some characters or demise of ones from the original movies. To be honest I can't see how anyone can look at what we have so far from TFA and not be a little concerned...I'm feeling a trap much like I did after getting all excited over the trailers for The Phantom Menace and then finally seeing the movie. A lot of people point out that Abrams did a good reboot of Star Trek but it was all action and not much for plot, script or character development. So stop with your +1s kids or are you not even old enough to remember what it was like disappointment-wise when the prequels came out? Blink

Second, Lucas is a turd and we all know it (a creative genius turd yes) Read "The Secret History of Star Wars" and you'll see why and how for the prequels he cut out all those that had helped the first trilogy be as great as it was all because of his own narcissism. So I'm not buying in to "it's what George said anyway".

Third, I agree, the state of the SW Universe wasn't great because Lucas, the creative genius turd, probably let too many authors have there own way with it. FOTJ was awful, and the Vong were a bit left field. But I still think they could have introduced new story lines while keeping the present universe characters, come one - Ben, Jaina, Jacen, Anakin, Mara, Luke the Grand Master, Corran, Kyp etc etc? All great characters.

I understand that once you want Chewie to be back so the whole non-SW savvy world doesn't do a global collective "HUH??" it really just means that anything can be changed but I would have liked some integration...that's all I'm saying.

So yes we still have our old universe, I agree, but BECAUSE it was sooooo attached to the movies for me it does feel like I either forget it forever or go with the new...I'm standing over a precipice here.
Mando
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 4:38:32 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 10/14/2008
Posts: 1,025
Location: Chokio, MN
I am hopeful that now that Star Wars is being handed over to different directors for movies other than George Lucas, we will once again have movies on par with Empire Strikes Back and RotJ. Dave Filloni did an excellent job with The Clone Wars and is doing a great job again with Rebels, so i think sometimes new people can turn out better star wars product than we had hoped. Star Wars The Clone Wars was better star wars than all 3 of the prequels. It actually gave us teh character developement that we sorely needed for Anakin, and it saved his character but also that of the next generations perception of Darth Vader. If it wasn't for SWTCW's we'd be stuck with a whiny Hayden Christensen who was so horrible at acting and did such a bad job of portraying this iconic character, it almost ruined the image of Darth Vader. The point of all this is that new directors can bring something fresh and might just do a better job of portraying characters than we've seen before. I think SW TFA will be much better than the prequels. The only thing I am concerned with is that we will be getting to many movies and that Star Wars will turn into the next Marvel. I am kinda getting tired of all the Marvel movies coming out now. There are just to many and they are really starting to reach on them now with movies like Ant Man coming out. I don't want to see Star Wars fall to that level where people get tired of seeing Star Wars movies come out every year. I hope the movies are good, but I understand peoples skeptism when I hear about films focusing on Han Solo and Boba Fett or that they are planning 3 movies based around Obi Wan. I am cautiously optimistic at this point about the anthology films.
Sithborg
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 5:27:49 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator, Rules Guy

Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
Who said anything about Lucas?

As for JJ, I find all the issues people have with the Star Trek movies seem to be misplaced. Orci and Kurtzman are the two people should be leveling their hate at.
AndyHatton
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 5:34:51 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 8/9/2009
Posts: 1,935
I don't hate the prequels. So No I'm not old enough to remember what that was like, because I was age appropriate when most of those movies came out. And If I agree with someone I'm going to give them a +1, I'm sorry you don't agree with us

I'm mostly confused by the rest of your statement. Ok you don't like George Lucas, so new people are going to make the movies but you don't like that either. You want all the original characters but you also want it to be set in the EU continuity where a lot of them are dead and gone or don't matter. And again you want that EU continuity but think its not very good, and that is also somehow George Lucas's fault? I don't quite follow especially since he didn't work for the publishing company. Again he didn't care about the EU why should he regulate it?

rundummy wrote:


So yes we still have our old universe, I agree, but BECAUSE it was sooooo attached to the movies for me it does feel like I either forget it forever or go with the new...I'm standing over a precipice here.


I'm sorry you feel this way, I read comic books its very easy for me to compartmentalize ideas into one universe or the other. And again the prequels did this all the time, ignoring EU stuff. I remember when RotS came out and Anakin was complaining that "No Knight has ever been allowed on the Council!" I was like thats not true, Ki-Adi Mundi was only a Jedi Knight on the Council. He was the first. But they changed it. The changes in the new movie might be bigger than this example, but that doesn't mean they are bad just because they are different. Ultimately I think The EU had become mess and this change is good.


I'm sorry you have concerns and I hope you can enjoy this movie when it comes out.
rundummy
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 6:23:59 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/19/2008
Posts: 123
Location: AUSTRALIA
Mando wrote:
I am hopeful that now that Star Wars is being handed over to different directors for movies other than George Lucas, we will once again have movies on par with Empire Strikes Back and RotJ. Dave Filloni did an excellent job with The Clone Wars and is doing a great job again with Rebels, so i think sometimes new people can turn out better star wars product than we had hoped. Star Wars The Clone Wars was better star wars than all 3 of the prequels. It actually gave us teh character developement that we sorely needed for Anakin, and it saved his character but also that of the next generations perception of Darth Vader. If it wasn't for SWTCW's we'd be stuck with a whiny Hayden Christensen who was so horrible at acting and did such a bad job of portraying this iconic character, it almost ruined the image of Darth Vader. The point of all this is that new directors can bring something fresh and might just do a better job of portraying characters than we've seen before. I think SW TFA will be much better than the prequels. The only thing I am concerned with is that we will be getting to many movies and that Star Wars will turn into the next Marvel. I am kinda getting tired of all the Marvel movies coming out now. There are just to many and they are really starting to reach on them now with movies like Ant Man coming out. I don't want to see Star Wars fall to that level where people get tired of seeing Star Wars movies come out every year. I hope the movies are good, but I understand peoples skeptism when I hear about films focusing on Han Solo and Boba Fett or that they are planning 3 movies based around Obi Wan. I am cautiously optimistic at this point about the anthology films.


What you say makes sense, and yes Anakin has been 'redeemed' by the Clone Wars cartoons. Hayden was simply just awful. l also agree with the Marvel thing, and I have got a bit tired of so much action packedness that I can't seem to differentiate one movie from the other such that I'm a bit lost on the whole plot thing. Guardians of the Galaxy i really enjoyed but that was set apart from the rest. But yes, too many SW movies could dilute the whole thing.

Good points, thanks
rundummy
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 6:25:38 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/19/2008
Posts: 123
Location: AUSTRALIA
Sithborg wrote:
Who said anything about Lucas?


AndyHatton wrote:
Also Lucas said for years the movies and the EU were separate. This is just a continuation of that policy for the movies.


Andy did :)

Sithborg wrote:
As for JJ, I find all the issues people have with the Star Trek movies seem to be misplaced. Orci and Kurtzman are the two people should be leveling their hate at.


Sorry I'm not aware of who they are??
rundummy
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 6:46:03 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/19/2008
Posts: 123
Location: AUSTRALIA
AndyHatton wrote:
I don't hate the prequels. So No I'm not old enough to remember what that was like, because I was age appropriate when most of those movies came out. And If I agree with someone I'm going to give them a +1, I'm sorry you don't agree with us


Ok stop right there, I apologise if my tone was misread, I'm having a rant yes but I don't not value your guys opinions..."the stop the +1 thing" was just Southside of Auckland talk. All good, chur bro. plus I don't hate the prequels either, just bits of them, mainly the acting. Otherwise I love all the new characters they introduced and the new dimension to the Jedi we never saw in the originals[/quote]

AndyHatton wrote:
I'm mostly confused by the rest of your statement. Ok you don't like George Lucas, so new people are going to make the movies but you don't like that either. You want all the original characters but you also want it to be set in the EU continuity where a lot of them are dead and gone or don't matter. And again you want that EU continuity but think its not very good, and that is also somehow George Lucas's fault? I don't quite follow especially since he didn't work for the publishing company. Again he didn't care about the EU why should he regulate it?


Hmmmm I think you're confusing yourself. It's not that I don't like George, I don't know him I just don't like the things he did and the arrogance he showed, especially to those who helped make the originals such a success. I never said I wanted the continuity as some bits don't work but it would be good to try and maintain some connection to it rather than wiping it out altogether. Whether that be characters or events, but the whole lot has been wiped, rebooting could have been a chance to ditch the trash but keep the good stuff. As for George's involvement in the EU as far as I know he still had a say in where the story went, he's not the kind of guy to sit out and not care about it. Once again if you were to read that book on the secret history of SW it goes into that a bit.

AndyHatton wrote:
rundummy wrote:


So yes we still have our old universe, I agree, but BECAUSE it was sooooo attached to the movies for me it does feel like I either forget it forever or go with the new...I'm standing over a precipice here.


I'm sorry you feel this way, I read comic books its very easy for me to compartmentalize ideas into one universe or the other. And again the prequels did this all the time, ignoring EU stuff. I remember when RotS came out and Anakin was complaining that "No Knight has ever been allowed on the Council!" I was like thats not true, Ki-Adi Mundi was only a Jedi Knight on the Council. He was the first. But they changed it. The changes in the new movie might be bigger than this example, but that doesn't mean they are bad just because they are different. Ultimately I think The EU had become mess and this change is good.


I'm sorry you have concerns and I hope you can enjoy this movie when it comes out.


Yes I agree, there have been lots of examples of this. Plus ultimately I must submit to what you are saying about the EU becoming a mess, it's true, there have been so many authors writing so many stories that has stretched over 3 decades now (and many written before the prequels came out and added some history to the whole story) that it is understandable that keeping it all together in one nice cohesive story line was always going to be difficult. You just need look back at the Children of the Jedi book which really was just weird, as was FOTJ and even Force Unleashed to see how there are things that just don't work. Books were produced primarily to make money, not to really help us all out in becoming a part of the SW Universe.

Maybe I should just put it this way then - I'm a bit gutted that Han and Leia may not even be married, that there may be no Mara, no Ben, no twins and no kick-butt greatest jedi ever Grand Master Luke Skywalker in the new movies (though I may easily be wrong on the first and last of those points).

But I hope I enjoy the movie too and it's not just another 1000 mile and hour chase and fight fest like Star Trek and marvel have been, i hope it has some depth to it so i can love it as much as I loved the originals, they were my childhood and I think I'm not alone when I say that I would like to be able to relive that childhood again when watching the new movie in 7 months time ;)
Sithborg
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 6:46:08 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator, Rules Guy

Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
The "braintrust" who where responsible for writing Transformers, Transformers 2, Star Trek, Star Trek 2, and The Amazing Spider-man 2. If you take those movies, you will begin to see the strand of terribleness that the director either overcomes or succumbs to.

Also, does it make be evil if I want Rey to be Luke's daughter, if just to completely destroy the old stories?
AndyHatton
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 8:51:24 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 8/9/2009
Posts: 1,935
rundummy wrote:


Ok stop right there, I apologise if my tone was misread, I'm having a rant yes but I don't not value your guys opinions..."the stop the +1 thing" was just Southside of Auckland talk. All good, chur bro. plus I don't hate the prequels either, just bits of them, mainly the acting. Otherwise I love all the new characters they introduced and the new dimension to the Jedi we never saw in the originals


The prequels are by no means perfect, its just the internet default is THEY SUCK whereas I think they have lots of good and fun bits and a good overarching plot brought down by poor acting. (No matter how great Ewan McGregor is he can't be everyone in that movie. Man do I wish he was though.)

rundummy wrote:

Hmmmm I think you're confusing yourself. It's not that I don't like George, I don't know him I just don't like the things he did and the arrogance he showed, especially to those who helped make the originals such a success. I never said I wanted the continuity as some bits don't work but it would be good to try and maintain some connection to it rather than wiping it out altogether. Whether that be characters or events, but the whole lot has been wiped, rebooting could have been a chance to ditch the trash but keep the good stuff. As for George's involvement in the EU as far as I know he still had a say in where the story went, he's not the kind of guy to sit out and not care about it. Once again if you were to read that book on the secret history of SW it goes into that a bit.


I'm not literally confused, I'm just saying I think you want to have your cake and eat it too. You admit parts of the EU are bad and you just wish they kept the good parts or the parts you like. Its much easier to throw it all out and then as you go pick up the pieces you like again and fit them back in then try and explain what you will put in vs what you won't. We don't know what has survived yet, we won't know for a while. Plus if the announcement had been "EU GONE. Well except for Mara Jade. oh and Ben and etc etc" it takes away from the surprise for people who don't know its coming.


We don't know what is coming, all of these fears could be unfounded. And even if they did get rid of everything, that doesn't it couldn't be a good story still.
juice man
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 9:08:34 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 1/5/2009
Posts: 2,241
Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
I was 13 when Star Wars (not episode IV) came out. (Han did shoot first) The special effects were what made that movie.
Plot had big holes, dialog was poor and Luke was a whiney brat. All this I realized after I got the boxed DVD set some 10 years ago.
The pre-quills were enjoyable, but again not fine art or even logical.
So, bring 'em on Disney, I'll watch 'em. And still read the books too!
rundummy
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 6:41:13 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/19/2008
Posts: 123
Location: AUSTRALIA
Sithborg wrote:
The "braintrust" who where responsible for writing Transformers, Transformers 2, Star Trek, Star Trek 2, and The Amazing Spider-man 2. If you take those movies, you will begin to see the strand of terribleness that the director either overcomes or succumbs to.

Also, does it make be evil if I want Rey to be Luke's daughter, if just to completely destroy the old stories?


Oh I see, that explains a few things then...though I actually enjoyed the Transformers movies, and the Star Treks, but yes, no depth.

Not evil at all...I just wanted Luke to have settled down and lived happily ever after lol. Hopefully he still becomes super-duper butt kicker :)
rundummy
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 6:45:35 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/19/2008
Posts: 123
Location: AUSTRALIA
AndyHatton wrote:
I'm not literally confused, I'm just saying I think you want to have your cake and eat it too. You admit parts of the EU are bad and you just wish they kept the good parts or the parts you like. Its much easier to throw it all out and then as you go pick up the pieces you like again and fit them back in then try and explain what you will put in vs what you won't. We don't know what has survived yet, we won't know for a while. Plus if the announcement had been "EU GONE. Well except for Mara Jade. oh and Ben and etc etc" it takes away from the surprise for people who don't know its coming.

We don't know what is coming, all of these fears could be unfounded. And even if they did get rid of everything, that doesn't it couldn't be a good story still.


Good points. Maybe just having a rant and then getting some other opinions helps. But then again putting a few guys in stormtrooper outfits and having someone swinging a lightsaber around may just not make it Star Wars.

I still have this odd feeling like a whole another parallel reality just disappeared "as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced" lol. You never know, maybe we all love SW so much because we want it to be REAL, toy really exist, who knows what could be possible and now that's gone! Oh well, welcome to the new universe, not much I can do about it really is there? It's done, toys are out of the cot but it's done.
EmporerDragon
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 9:06:34 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 12/26/2008
Posts: 2,115
Location: Watertown, SD
rundummy wrote:

I still have this odd feeling like a whole another parallel reality just disappeared "as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced" lol. You never know, maybe we all love SW so much because we want it to be REAL, toy really exist, who knows what could be possible and now that's gone! Oh well, welcome to the new universe, not much I can do about it really is there? It's done, toys are out of the cot but it's done.


I'd say that's the biggest rub with me as well, and why I can't feel a huge amount of excitement for Episode VII. Star Wars could easily withstand having two continuities running side by side each with their own events and history, like how Marvel had the Ultimate series running alongside the classics. Instead, they went scorched earth and destroyed everything.

Hopefully, we'll wind up seeing one of the new-continuity Skywalker descendants using the force to punch reality so hard the multiverse is restored.
rundummy
Posted: Thursday, June 18, 2015 5:21:20 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/19/2008
Posts: 123
Location: AUSTRALIA
EmporerDragon wrote:
Hopefully, we'll wind up seeing one of the new-continuity Skywalker descendants using the force to punch reality so hard the multiverse is restored.


Lol...+1 ;)
trappedslider
Posted: Friday, June 19, 2015 8:10:18 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 12/4/2008
Posts: 371
Location: Roswell,new mexico
With this new start for the EU,It will help put to rest finally some of the bitterness from the old EU, but it also will add some new bitterness like Zahn never getting to do a new Thrawn story. As for my books, I only have a few to go from the Legends banner before I have all of the SW books i want.
Sithborg
Posted: Sunday, June 21, 2015 10:19:16 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator, Rules Guy

Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
Ehh, from what I've heard, Zahn isn't the Star Wars auther he used to be.
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS

Bloo Milk Theme Created by shinja
Powered by Yet Another Forum.net.
Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.