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Rebel, Imperial and Fringe Must Haves Options
Chris L
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 5:20:32 PM
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What miniatures are must haves for a collection? I've been looking through ratings and usage to see what else I want to try to get. I probably have only 250-300 minis but want to get some of the better minis.
TheHutts
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 5:57:55 PM
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My collection is pretty tight - I only really buy for play, not collecting. I have almost everything I need for making competitive squads - I think my biggest missing piece is Jabba, Crime Lord, but my friend who I play with has one, so I just borrow his if I need one. GGDAC and another Lancer would probably be handy, and if you're not playing the errata that stops pieces reducing below 3 points, you might want more than 7 Mouse Droids. There's also a little bit of crap (hello Klat Enforcer) that I got from random boosters etc, but most of my stuff is purposefully bought individually.

http://www.bloomilk.com/Collection/TheHutts/Haves

My collection is also oriented for v-sets - if you're not using v-sets, you probably need less pieces as the v-sets bring more pieces up to competitive level (eg Rakghoul, Echani Handmaiden, Storm Commando). There are also some pieces (eg Vader Dark Jedi) who I have just to proxy for favourite v-set pieces.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 6:13:21 PM
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Rebel must haves (WotC):

General Dodonna
Ithorian Commander
General Rieekan
Elite Rebel Commando
General Crix Madine
Bothan Noble
Princess Leia
Han Solo in Stormtrooper Armor
Han Solo, Smuggler
Luke Skywalker, Rebel Commando
Chewbacca, Rebel Hero

The competitive Rebel build is based on commandos, Princess Leia, Han Smuggler. You can also build something decent with Han Trooper and the Ithorian. Chewbacca, RH is the best WotC Chewbacca and you really do want to have a Chewbacca in your collection because, well, he's Chewbacca.

If you're playing with Vsets, grab the PDFs (or physical cards where possible) and proxy what you like.
Chris L
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 6:48:56 PM
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Thanks, both. You recommend the V-sets?
FlyingArrow
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 7:01:42 PM
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Chris L wrote:
Thanks, both. You recommend the V-sets?


Really depends on how you use the game.

If you're playing a couple times per year with other people who only play a couple times per year, and that's it... there are no 'must haves'. Not the Vsets and not even what I listed above. Just play with whatever you own and grab characters that you like based on the character. Depending on how much you have, give each player a faction and build a squad on the spot. Or if you don't have enough, give one player all light-side and the other player all dark-side. And then build squads.

If you play more often, want to play in tournaments, and/or want to do squadbuilding and discussion here on the boards, I recommend the Vsets. It's at the point that the competitive scene starts to matter to you. If you play enough, you'll want to know what the best squads are. The WotC best squads are well known, and there were only 4-8 of them when the game was discontinued. Certainly playable that way but we don't talk about it much anymore since it's been well-analyzed. (The pieces I mentioned above cover one of those top squads and another squad that is pretty good but not quite top-tier.)

With Vsets, there is a lot more variety available. 20+ squad types are viable competitively. It makes squadbuilding more interesting, and that's what most of the discussion here is about when we talk about squadbuilding, the meta, etc: the current game including Vsets.
Chris L
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 7:41:49 PM
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Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 34
Where are the WoTC best sets listed, perchance?
FlyingArrow
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 8:01:55 PM
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Chris L wrote:
Where are the WoTC best sets listed, perchance?


Not sure if they are listed anywhere, but I really should add them to this wiki page:

https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Competitive_Star_Wars_Miniatures_Squads#

Here's a quick rundown, though:

* Rebel: "Lobbin Luke"/"Smug Commandos" - Luke RC + Han Smuggler + Princess Leia + Elite Rebel Commandos + Crix/Dodonna/Rieekan
* Republic: "Skybuck" - General Skywalker + Yoda on Kybuck + (either Captain Rex or Dash Rendar, RS) + Captain Panaka + fodder
* Imperial: Thrawn Swap ("Black & Blue" or "Stealth & Blue") - Lord Vader for black or Cad Bane for stealth + Arica + Thrawn + Admiral Ozzel + swap fodder
* Separatist: "Pawned Lancer" - Lancer + Darth Sidious. Beyond that, variants for support shooters and how much to boost the Lancer, but usually GGDAC
* New Republic: "Solo Charge" - Mara Jade Jedi, Han Solo Galactic Hero, Anakin Solo, Ganner, Dodonna

I think that's it. And Lobot is in all of the above. Spamming Mice for activations is a popular option for Lobot reinforcements. I'm not sure what the most "canonical" example of each of the squad archetypes is, but someone will likely post links for them soon.

Sith, Vong, Mandos, OR had no competitive builds at the end of WotC.


*** GOWK. General Obi-Wan Kenobi was banned or errata'ed at the end of WotC, I forget which. But in either case he wasn't part of the top squads at the time. But pre-errata, he was really strong. He was the only piece during the WotC era to receive a significant errata (all the other errata were just typos). His pre-errata squad was something like 2 Jedi Weapon Masters plus Rex or Dash.


There are another 5-15 squads that can compete with one or several of the 5 competitive builds, but do badly enough against at least one of the others that they don't make the cut. We call them "Tier 1.5".
EmporerDragon
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 8:02:50 PM
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Chris L wrote:
Where are the WoTC best sets listed, perchance?


There isn't really a best set per se, but a lot of the older sets are mainly obsolete thanks to years of power creep. There are still worthwhile minis in the older sets as the can still fill a unique slot or can be boosted by something in the future.

Still, if you're just getting started and want to focus on Rebels and Imperials, getting a bunch of Imperial Entanglements and Dark Times will suit your needs.
Chris L
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 8:21:01 PM
Rank: Uggernaught
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Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 34
FlyingArrow wrote:
Chris L wrote:
Where are the WoTC best sets listed, perchance?


Not sure if they are listed anywhere, but I really should add them to this wiki page:

https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Competitive_Star_Wars_Miniatures_Squads#

Here's a quick rundown, though:

* Rebel: "Lobbin Luke"/"Smug Commandos" - Luke RC + Han Smuggler + Princess Leia + Elite Rebel Commandos + Crix/Dodonna/Rieekan
* Republic: "Skybuck" - General Skywalker + Yoda on Kybuck + (either Captain Rex or Dash Rendar, RS) + Captain Panaka + fodder
* Imperial: Thrawn Swap ("Black & Blue" or "Stealth & Blue") - Lord Vader for black or Cad Bane for stealth + Arica + Thrawn + Admiral Ozzel + swap fodder
* Separatist: "Pawned Lancer" - Lancer + Darth Sidious. Beyond that, variants for support shooters and how much to boost the Lancer, but usually GGDAC
* New Republic: "Solo Charge" - Mara Jade Jedi, Han Solo Galactic Hero, Anakin Solo, Ganner, Dodonna

I think that's it. And Lobot is in all of the above. Spamming Mice for activations is a popular option for Lobot reinforcements. I'm not sure what the most "canonical" example of each of the squad archetypes is, but someone will likely post links for them soon.

Sith, Vong, Mandos, OR had no competitive builds at the end of WotC.


*** GOWK. General Obi-Wan Kenobi was banned or errata'ed at the end of WotC, I forget which. But in either case he wasn't part of the top squads at the time. But pre-errata, he was really strong. He was the only piece during the WotC era to receive a significant errata (all the other errata were just typos). His pre-errata squad was something like 2 Jedi Weapon Masters plus Rex or Dash.


There are another 5-15 squads that can compete with one or several of the 5 competitive builds, but do badly enough against at least one of the others that they don't make the cut. We call them "Tier 1.5".


Thanks!
EmporerDragon
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 8:31:54 PM
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As for what to grab from the older sets (RS-KOTOR), my suggestions would be:

(Not everything listed will be top tier, but they are all pieces that have generally withstood the test of time)

Rebel Storm:
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Princess Leia, Senator
Emperor Palpatine
General Veers
Sand Trooper on Dewback
Dengar
Bossk
4-LOM

Clone Strike:
Aurra Sing

Revenge of the Sith:
Boba Fett, Young Mercenary

Universe:
Lando Calrissian, Hero of Tanaab
Lobot
Rodian Black Sun Vigo
X-1 Viper Droid
Darth Vader, Jedi Hunter
Grand Admiral Thrawn
Chewbacca, Rebel Hero
Han Solo, Rebel Hero

Champions of the Force:
Darth Vader, Champion of the Sith
Ugnaught Demolitionist

Bounty Hunters:
Han Solo, Scoundrel
Lord Vader
Aqualish Assassin
Bith Black Sun Vigo
Boba Fett, Bounty Hunter
Bossk, Bounty Hunter
Dengar, Bounty Hunter
4-LOM, Bounty Hunter
Garindan
Rodian Hunt Master
Zuckuss

Alliance and Empire:
Han Solo in Stormtrooper Armor
Luke Skywalker, Champion of the Force
Princess Leia
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Spirit
Admiral Piett
Darth Vader, Imperial Commander
Storm Commando
Boba Fett, Enforcer
Jabba, Crime Lord
Wicket

Force Unleashed:
Juno Eclipse
Vader's Apprentice, Redeemed
Admiral Ozzel
Felucian Stormtrooper Officer
Vader's Apprentice, Unleashed
Boba Fett, Mercenary
Caamasi Noble
Muun Tactics Broker

Legacy of the Force:
Bothan Noble
Deena Shan
Elite Rebel Commando
General Dodonna
Luke Skywalker, Legacy of the Light Side
Imperial Knight
Cade Skywalker, Bounty Hunter
Human Bodyguard
Kel Dor Bounty Hunter

KOTOR:
Han Solo, Smuggler
Leia Organa, Senator
Luke Skywalker, Jedi
Darth Vader, Scourge of the Jedi
Czerka Scientist
Jarael
Chris L
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 9:03:32 PM
Rank: Uggernaught
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Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 34
EmporerDragon wrote:
As for what to grab from the older sets (RS-KOTOR), my suggestions would be:

(Not everything listed will be top tier, but they are all pieces that have generally withstood the test of time)




Excellent. Many thanks. Let me see which I have to start.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, December 19, 2016 3:32:45 PM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,408
FlyingArrow wrote:
Chris L wrote:
Where are the WoTC best sets listed, perchance?


Not sure if they are listed anywhere, but I really should add them to this wiki page:

https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Competitive_Star_Wars_Miniatures_Squads#

Here's a quick rundown, though:

* Rebel: "Lobbin Luke"/"Smug Commandos" - Luke RC + Han Smuggler + Princess Leia + Elite Rebel Commandos + Crix/Dodonna/Rieekan
* Republic: "Skybuck" - General Skywalker + Yoda on Kybuck + (either Captain Rex or Dash Rendar, RS) + Captain Panaka + fodder
* Imperial: Thrawn Swap ("Black & Blue" or "Stealth & Blue") - Lord Vader for black or Cad Bane for stealth + Arica + Thrawn + Admiral Ozzel + swap fodder
* Separatist: "Pawned Lancer" - Lancer + Darth Sidious. Beyond that, variants for support shooters and how much to boost the Lancer, but usually GGDAC
* New Republic: "Solo Charge" - Mara Jade Jedi, Han Solo Galactic Hero, Anakin Solo, Ganner, Dodonna

I think that's it. And Lobot is in all of the above. Spamming Mice for activations is a popular option for Lobot reinforcements. I'm not sure what the most "canonical" example of each of the squad archetypes is, but someone will likely post links for them soon.

Sith, Vong, Mandos, OR had no competitive builds at the end of WotC.


*** GOWK. General Obi-Wan Kenobi was banned or errata'ed at the end of WotC, I forget which. But in either case he wasn't part of the top squads at the time. But pre-errata, he was really strong. He was the only piece during the WotC era to receive a significant errata (all the other errata were just typos). His pre-errata squad was something like 2 Jedi Weapon Masters plus Rex or Dash.


There are another 5-15 squads that can compete with one or several of the 5 competitive builds, but do badly enough against at least one of the others that they don't make the cut. We call them "Tier 1.5".


Links to a few sample squads:

lobbin' luke (150pts)
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/50395/lobbin-luke

Smug Commandos (200pts)
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/90749/smug-commandos--2010-gencon-champion-squad-

Skybuck (Yodabuck Maximum)
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/59351/yodabuck-maximum

Pawned Lancer
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/19654/greivously-pawned-lancer

Solo Charge
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/82551/solo-charge

Black & Blue (gimp imps)
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/90791/gimp-imps

Stealth N' Blue
http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/83933/stealth-n-blue
TheHutts
Posted: Monday, December 19, 2016 3:53:06 PM
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One thing that the v-sets do is have more self-sufficient pieces - those WOTC squads usually have some devastating synergies (eg Leia/Han Smuggler or Ganner/Mara) that make them better than the sum of their parts. People who aren't familiar with the power of these combos sometimes freak out when they see tough Jedi like Mace LotLS or Darth Zannah.
Chris L
Posted: Monday, December 19, 2016 5:47:59 PM
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Joined: 10/22/2016
Posts: 34
Thanks, both of you. Maybe I ought to look at those V-sets. Should I start with the first one or does it not matter?
TheHutts
Posted: Monday, December 19, 2016 6:44:31 PM
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Chris L wrote:
Thanks, both of you. Maybe I ought to look at those V-sets. Should I start with the first one or does it not matter?


There's a lot to learn with the v-sets. Most of the WOTC sets have a few strong pieces and a lot of filler, while a decent proportion of the v-set pieces are competitive.

I'd try out those competitive squads that FlyingArrow referenced before you try the v-sets - if you drop the v-sets in against casual WOTC squads, they'll look way overpowered. They're balanced to the top tier of WOTC squads, not to the filler.

The first set (Destiny of the Force) is a good place to start; there's a piece that really helps the Old Republic and makes them playable (Bastila Shan Jedi Master). Yammosk helps Vong, and Revan Sith Lord is a very good option for Sith.
Chris L
Posted: Monday, December 19, 2016 8:47:00 PM
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Joined: 10/22/2016
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What Fringe are must haves? Lobot, Mous Droids, Ughnauts, Jarael...?
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, December 19, 2016 9:08:02 PM
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Chris L wrote:
What Fringe are must haves? Lobot, Mous Droids, Ughnauts, Jarael...?


Mice, Ugnaughts, R7 droids. I think you can stop right there. After that, there are tons of things that are nice to have, or required for a certain squad. But those are the only ones that I find to be must-haves.

You might find this page useful if you haven't seen it yet:

http://www.bloomilk.com/Character/Usage

Gives you a good idea of the relative popularity of pieces. Newer pieces are necessarily lower in the list, so it isn't as useful to gauage the popularity of Vset pieces, but you can see right at the top the pieces that have been used most often.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, December 19, 2016 9:14:29 PM
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Chris L wrote:
Thanks, both of you. Maybe I ought to look at those V-sets. Should I start with the first one or does it not matter?


Again, it really depends on your play situation and what you are looking for. Do you have an opponent who is also building squads, or are you providing all the pieces when you play? If you have an opponent, are they willing to look at the Vsets? Do you have roughly equal size collections?

The most important thing is to have relatively even games. Blowouts just aren't fun, and if you try to play Vsets while your opponent is playing pure-WotC it will not be fun. But if you're building both squads or if your opponent is willing to look at Vsets with you, I think it's worth jumping into the deep end right away.

But then, I like to find new competitive squads. If that's something you'd like to do, it's unlikely to happen if you play pure-WotC. In the Vsets, there are tons of opportunities out there. With the Vsets, there's a lot of parity among the factions and there are some good pieces that haven't ever been tried competitively, and plenty of combinations yet to be explored.
Chris L
Posted: Monday, December 19, 2016 9:39:19 PM
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I'll be providing all the miniatures and, to start, building the squads.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, December 19, 2016 9:45:36 PM
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Chris L wrote:
I'll be providing all the miniatures and, to start, building the squads.


In that case, I'd jump right into the Vsets. Tell urbanjedi that you want the physical cards and you'll get the ones that are still available. (They've run out of some of the sets.) Then you can print the PDFs of whatever you can't get physical cards for.

All the PDFs are here:
http://swmgamers.com/SWM/V-setMain.html

And, of course, the stats are here in the database.
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