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PatonPawic
Posted: Sunday, December 10, 2017 11:20:44 AM
Rank: Caamasi Noble
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Joined: 9/4/2008
Posts: 5
https://swmrebirth.wordpress.com/

It's a Star Wars Miniatures web site. It's really cool, you should check it out!
TheHutts
Posted: Sunday, December 10, 2017 11:39:37 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,440
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
I had a look at some of the adjustments and liked them - I like adding abilities a lot more than I like re-costing old pieces.

I think this quote is way off the mark though. Lots of WOTC pieces, especially tech, are still dominant.

Quote:
Sadly, that game has been out of print for quite some time. Fans of the game took to making custom expansion sets. Since the advent of these fan-made sets, the power creep that had existed to an extent previously, has now risen to the point where just about any of the characters made by Wizards of the Coast (the maker of the game) are completely outdated and useless.
jak
Posted: Sunday, December 10, 2017 2:37:07 PM
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Joined: 10/17/2010
Posts: 3,384
Location: Beggers Canyon Tatooine
interesting ideas
seem like a disgruntled Vset elfLaugh
Caedus
Posted: Sunday, December 10, 2017 2:44:04 PM
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Joined: 4/20/2015
Posts: 747
jak wrote:
interesting ideas
seem like a disgruntled Vset elfLaugh


I was thinking the same thing. Little too sanctimonious sounding to me. I like our game, the people that play and keep it going, and the people we have in charge of its prosperity now.
Jakster
Posted: Sunday, December 10, 2017 2:46:34 PM
Rank: Huge Crab Droid
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Joined: 12/26/2008
Posts: 40
Quote:
Sadly, that game has been out of print for quite some time. Fans of the game took to making custom expansion sets. Since the advent of these fan-made sets, the power creep that had existed to an extent previously, has now risen to the point where just about any of the characters made by Wizards of the Coast (the maker of the game) are completely outdated and useless.

It is common, if not universal, for games with expanding content (whether video games, card games, etc.) to have a power creep. Naturally, game makers of all kinds must make profit to continue production of their products, and a common method of encouraging people to buy their new products is to make the new stuff a little bit better than the old. Of course, when sets are not being made for profit, such as fan-made expansions, power creep is completely unnecessary.


On the contrary, these 2 paragraphs mirror my view of the V-sets excatly.
In a commercial environment it's naive to even complain about power creep, it's just a given in these style of games.
But in a non-profit environment, there was the chance to do something unique...and that chance was utterly missed.
TheHutts
Posted: Sunday, December 10, 2017 3:32:11 PM
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Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,440
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
There's a pretty big weight of evidence supporting that power creep hasn't been too extreme with v-sets - people have played all WOTC squads at tournaments and done well, WOTC squads performed well in the squad building contest that FlyingArrow ran a couple of years ago: http://challonge.com/SWM_SetVsSet

Power creep is there with v-sets, but it's lower than Rebel Storm -> Clone Wars or Imperial Entanglements.
jen'ari
Posted: Sunday, December 10, 2017 3:52:14 PM
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 1,680
Power creep is massive. Come on let's just own it.
The problem is that there are some wotc pieces that are just massively powerful that can not really be out done.
R2, thrawn, reeikan, dodonna, whorm, etc all the tech pieces. But other than those what attacker from wotc still sees play time?
Point being that 90% of wotc is not playable, per much ever.

Yobuck is the one attacker I can think of.
Dash rendar is obsolete, jarael never sees play, cad bane has not been seen, all Vader's are not played, Captain Rex is outdone by erc's, etc

I, personally, do not mind power creep if it allows for fun game play. I just want power creep to move towards Jedi force users.
I went to the site and like the idea, it's hard to use it though, but maybe I need more time with it or something
FlyingArrow
Posted: Sunday, December 10, 2017 5:07:55 PM
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Joined: 5/26/2009
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I hope he has fun with it. It looks like a lot of work by someone who enjoys the game. Too bad they aren't here as part of the community.
kobayashimaru
Posted: Sunday, December 10, 2017 5:15:44 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 8/26/2011
Posts: 1,077
thanks for the awesome tipoff.
has anyone made 'first contact' there, and let them know about other places that SWMinis-players are? BigGrin
that way, we can keep our archives lists and 'webring-group-referdex' all current.

as to theories on the origin of this source;
it might be someone who played,
though never found places like here, gamers, boardgamegeek etc,
and made their own approach entirely.
so, it might be indicative of a 'local-meta'/'regionalized variant of SWMinis".

metadata is suggesting this to be likely,
as there's no correlation with 'known metadata' from avg userbase at Bloomilk, Gamers, Boardgamegeek etc.
(don't worry folks, it's just Majestic metaindex search)
the power of AGI folks. BigGrin


I enjoy finding more SWminis related stuff,
the more the merrier!
I think it's a testament to the awesomeness which is the SWMinis game
as compared to other extant minis-games out there.

SWMinis is affordable and accessible, so that's a huge part to its enduring popularity I think.
SWMinis is chess/go-like, and thanks to printable VSet cards and miniatures proxies,
folks can easily get involved and go to real-world stuff.
there's then 'distance/correspondence SWMinis" - SWMPlay's miniatures app, TabletopSimulator, VASSAL SWMinis etc,
which allow folks to digitally play the SWMinis game.
swinefeld
Posted: Sunday, December 10, 2017 5:54:55 PM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,203
Location: Southern Illinois
FlyingArrow wrote:
I hope he has fun with it. It looks like a lot of work by someone who enjoys the game. Too bad they aren't here as part of the community.


+1
jak
Posted: Monday, December 11, 2017 5:47:23 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 10/17/2010
Posts: 3,384
Location: Beggers Canyon Tatooine
FlyingArrow wrote:
I hope he has fun with it. It looks like a lot of work by someone who enjoys the game. Too bad they aren't here as part of the community.


maybe they are/were, before they became disgruntledConfused
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, December 11, 2017 6:28:45 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 7,243
Possible. I still wish they were here now.
PatonPawic
Posted: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 4:54:52 PM
Rank: Caamasi Noble
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/4/2008
Posts: 5
Truth be told, it's my website. This post was sort of my cowardly way of toe-dipping back into the bloomilk community to gauge everyone's response. I was worried that some would see the website in an adversarial light, and that was definitely not my objective. I have nothing but respect for all of you and I'm really happy that SWM still has an avid and active player-base.

So here's the story: A long time ago (in this galaxy), my SWM cards, kept in 3 different binders were lost! I still had the figures, and I was pretty sure that I had left the binders in a family member's trunk. He hadn't seen them, so I thought they must have been stolen along with some other things I had in my car at one point (I learned my lesson, I lock my car now). Fast forward a few years and my relative stumbled across 3 binders while moving! Apparently they had made their way into his garage and were lost to time! Suddenly, my game is complete again! So I remembered bloomilk being a great site (I also liked swshoebox, which is sadly now defunct it seems), so I went to check it out again after my absence from the SWM scene. I saw the vsets, which made me glad that people were still playing, but I also was overwhelmed by the amount of new stuff to absorb! I also quickly realized that many of my favorite teams and strategies would not be able to compete with the new content.

So I just went back to playing with my original WotC SWM, introducing several of my friends to the game. Like any new players, they would say "Oh, this guy looks cool!" and I would have to tell them, "No, don't use him, he's terrible." So I started thinking, "The game is no longer being made; why don't I just improve the minis that aren't up to par with the rest so I can use some of these guys that never see the outside of my tackle-boxes?" I had thought of doing that shortly after the game stopped being made, but I had thrown the idea out when I was demoralized by the loss of my cards shortly thereafter.

So that's when I started working on this revamp project! As some of you said, I have put a lot of work into it (although the site isn't that great since I don't know much about web developmentā€”I used to know HTML2.0 pretty well...lol), so I don't want it to just set there for my own use if someone else would enjoy it as well.

Anyway, thanks for your attention and kind words. And if you have any thoughts, ideas, or suggestions, feel free to drop me a line! Smile
CorellianComedian
Posted: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 5:51:27 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 8/30/2014
Posts: 948
Okay, my turn to be honest - I kinda suspected the website creator might be hanging around the boards here.

Thanks for sharing! I've looked through a lot of the pieces, and I'm really impressed. I tend to fall closer to the pro-V-set end of the spectrum, but power creep debates aside, I think you really captured the WotC feel beautifully.

I must specifically compliment you on your Revan. I was looking at him going "This is a 79 point piece with Twin Attack and no Master of the Force. Seriously?" I honestly kept going back to make sure there wasn't some spectacular ability I was missing. Nope. Sure, he's got Lightsaber Assault, but still. And yet, he is such an interesting piece, with a well-thought-out (and impressive) suite of abilities, that I really can't help but like the piece. Not very often does someone make a piece that wrestles my objections to the ground so effortlessly. (In case I didn't word this well: I really like the piece).

Also, that Aayla Secura is fantastic. That +8 Attack for troopers is absurdly high, yet it works so well.

I'd almost be interested in seeing a tournament with your pieces added into the mix - your revamps and customs come in below the V-sets power-level wise, so think aside from an occasional freak NPE they could be added in to a tournament without disturbing the game-balance unduly.
swinefeld
Posted: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 5:56:40 PM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,203
Location: Southern Illinois
Nice to have you here, or back here, as it were. (and I'm very glad your cards were recovered!) Smile

The membership here covers a wide spectrum of remaining players (and play formats). Speaking for myself of course, but I think most of us are open to and interested in any ideas to keep the game fresh, and that many of us lament that much of WotC's output just needed to be slightly better to be usable.

I've glanced at a few things on your site. I look forward to reading through more of your ideas as I have time. I'll just mention your Flanking Support upgrade: a one-word change that makes it much more compelling to attempt.

Cheers to your efforts. BlooMilk
blemelisk
Posted: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 6:23:01 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 2/17/2017
Posts: 239
I frankly like it. However, how come you didnt change the base damage/hp to base 5? (though technically you could have just changed it to single digits, even in our current game you could just divide everything by 10, it would end up being the same for HP and damage.) But a min damage of hp of 5 would keep it interesting. it would allowed for more subtle damage etc.
gandalfthegreatestwizard
Posted: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 6:41:15 PM
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Joined: 4/30/2017
Posts: 123
My own little bit of feedback: you might want to change the wording of the "Triage" ability on your revamped Mon Calamari Medic. If I'm not mistaken, it currently allows the medic to heal an infinite amount of times as long as two or more wounded characters are adjacent to it.

The ability currently reads "Whenever this character heals an adjacent ally, he may heal another adjacent ally". So the medic can heal an adjacent ally, then another one, then the first one again, etc. (This is probably not the right place to critique the customs, but whatever).

Other than that, I thought they were generally pretty excellent.
jen'ari
Posted: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 6:47:03 PM
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 1,680
gandalfthegreatestwizard wrote:
My own little bit of feedback: you might want to change the wording of the "Triage" ability on your revamped Mon Calamari Medic. If I'm not mistaken, it currently allows the medic to heal and infinite amount of times as long as two or more wounded characters are adjacent to it.

The ability currently reads "Whenever this character heals an adjacent ally, he may heal another adjacent ally". So the medic can heal an adjacent ally, then another one, then the first one again, etc. (This is probably not the right place to critique the customs, but whatever).

Other than that, I thought they were generally pretty excellent.


You should make the change and add it to our CCC this week ;)
PatonPawic
Posted: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 7:19:32 PM
Rank: Caamasi Noble
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/4/2008
Posts: 5
CorellianComedian wrote:
I must specifically compliment you on your Revan. I was looking at him going "This is a 79 point piece with Twin Attack and no Master of the Force. Seriously?" I honestly kept going back to make sure there wasn't some spectacular ability I was missing. Nope. Sure, he's got Lightsaber Assault, but still. And yet, he is such an interesting piece, with a well-thought-out (and impressive) suite of abilities, that I really can't help but like the piece. Not very often does someone make a piece that wrestles my objections to the ground so effortlessly. (In case I didn't word this well: I really like the piece).


Thank you! I was really happy with the way that one turned out. Revan is one of my all-time favorite characters!

CorellianComedian wrote:
Also, that Aayla Secura is fantastic. That +8 Attack for troopers is absurdly high, yet it works so well.


Thanks again! I thought since it can only benefit a select few and can't be enhanced by Mas Amedda that it would be fair. Not to mention the danger of grenades, missiles and flamethrowers!

swinefeld wrote:
Nice to have you here, or back here, as it were. (and I'm very glad your cards were recovered!) Smile

The membership here covers a wide spectrum of remaining players (and play formats). Speaking for myself of course, but I think most of us are open to and interested in any ideas to keep the game fresh, and that many of us lament that much of WotC's output just needed to be slightly better to be usable.

I've glanced at a few things on your site. I look forward to reading through more of your ideas as I have time. I'll just mention your Flanking Support upgrade: a one-word change that makes it much more compelling to attempt.

Cheers to your efforts. BlooMilk


Thanks! It's good to be back. I've always loved this site. It is a great resource!

blemelisk wrote:
I frankly like it. However, how come you didnt change the base damage/hp to base 5? (though technically you could have just changed it to single digits, even in our current game you could just divide everything by 10, it would end up being the same for HP and damage.) But a min damage of hp of 5 would keep it interesting. it would allowed for more subtle damage etc.


Yeah, I always wondered why it's 120 HP instead of 12 and dropping the 0's off of the damage. The thing I wouldn't like about that is needing to come up with 5 damage chits for tracking damage.

gandalfthegreatestwizard wrote:
My own little bit of feedback: you might want to change the wording of the "Triage" ability on your revamped Mon Calamari Medic. If I'm not mistaken, it currently allows the medic to heal and infinite amount of times as long as two or more wounded characters are adjacent to it.

The ability currently reads "Whenever this character heals an adjacent ally, he may heal another adjacent ally". So the medic can heal an adjacent ally, then another one, then the first one again, etc. (This is probably not the right place to critique the customs, but whatever).

Other than that, I thought they were generally pretty excellent.


That's a really good catch! I hadn't thought of that. This is why I need a proofreader LOL I just changed it to: "Whenever this character uses his Heal 10 ability, he may remove 10 damage from another adjacent living ally"
TheHutts
Posted: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 7:37:50 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,440
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
jen'ari wrote:
Power creep is massive. Come on let's just own it.
The problem is that there are some wotc pieces that are just massively powerful that can not really be out done.
R2, thrawn, reeikan, dodonna, whorm, etc all the tech pieces. But other than those what attacker from wotc still sees play time?
Point being that 90% of wotc is not playable, per much ever.

Yobuck is the one attacker I can think of.
Dash rendar is obsolete, jarael never sees play, cad bane has not been seen, all Vader's are not played, Captain Rex is outdone by erc's, etc


I do think we're largely thinking along the same lines - in my original post, I did mention that it's the WOTC tech that's held up the best, mostly because it was so powerful to start with.

I still think that a Dash Rendar RS or Captain Rex is more relevant to today's game than say Rebel Storm's Boba Fett or Clone Strike's Aurra Sing were at the end of the WOTC run. Dash is pretty solid with CEs, and Rex is a solid commander/attacker is some builds like the ERCs. I got smashed by Mara Jade Jedi in the last tournament I played - she's still a potent combination of survivability and damage output, and she's ten years old.
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