http://swmgamers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7328

Be sure to check it out and tell me what you think.

Same here.

1st, you should have an account there :)

2nd, here you are :)

As promised, I have been working on things I think we need to change for a while. Here are my proposals. Note, while I think each of them is a good idea, that does not mean we have to adopt everyone.

#1 - and this is regardless of number 2. We need to create a "Championship Format" for competitive play. Nickname's idea and I support it, is to change the Floor rules from focusing on the specific rules for different point limits, and instead use 3 new formats, that can be reported at any point level for DCI play.

For example, the three new formats might be, "Competitive, Huge Friendly, Open". Competitive can be used anywhere at any time, but it would be the required format for the regionals and championship and so on. It will have a hyperrestricted map list, and would be the only format where official "bannings" would be required. Huge Friendly will have a different map list (and ruleset if needed) based more on making huges playable (much like 200pts is currently). Open, would be the format that I talked about a while ago, however in this proposal, it will only be able to include official WotC materials (although I will be pushing to allow it to use fan created maps as well - no customs figures at this time).

For Competitive, I am proposing that the map list becomes:
Rancor Pit, Ravaged Base, Train Station, Jedi Temple, Deathstar, Cloud City, Muunalist (CS version), Chancelor's Starship and Nightclub.

HF would include the current 200pt legal maps.

Open includes every WotC released map, with the exception of the Endor map, and the open Hoth maps (and if possible, fan created maps).

#2 - If we don't completely like #1, option 2 is moving the championship to 200pts. A 200pt champ, would create other issues, which I will deal with in #3. But it will also have a hyper restricted map list using the "championship format" even if that list might not be exactly the same.

#3 - Stalling and slow play. I will be writing a couple of floor rules updates regarding these issues. First, I will be adding the following:

Slow Play: Appropriate play speed is a speed that allows both players the opportunity to score the victory points of the format under the time limit. This does not mean that every single game will finish in time and it is judges discretion. In general, if games are going to the time limit with neither player reaching the point limit then the following are good guidelines to decide if slow play was in fact occuring. In a 100pt game 10 or more rounds were played. In 150pt or 200pt game, 8 or more rounds were completed. It is suggested that any game going less than 8 rounds without either player getting close to the victory conditions be considered grounds for a slow play warning for one or both of the players. It is the responsibility of the judge to maintain a fair game, and shrinking the game down to a low number of rounds restricts the ability of either player to complete the game.

Stalling: Intentionally slow playing a game. Stalling can also be an escalation for a player warned about slow play earlier in the game or tournament, but can also be a stand alone offense. It is defined as knowingly slowing the game down to prevent your opponent from having a legitimate chance at winning the game from it's outset. (Note, a player is not required to speed up in a situation where more than the minimal rounds of play have occurred, and it would only benefit the other player to do so). Slow play is a warning, and the judge should ask the player to move faster, and add as many rounds to play as necessary to reach a fair outcome. In many situations, a fair outcome cannot be reached, and in those cases, the judge should escalate it to stalling and issue a DQ from the game. For example, in a case where one player has been slow playing the entire time, has been warned, and still continues to turtle and hide his pieces from being defeated, after gaining a small points lead. Players should be encouraged by the judges to watch the time, and compare that to how fast their rounds are going. For example, in a 150pt game, if the minimum is considered 8 rounds, then an average round should not take more than 8 minutes. Players should also inform the judge as early as possible that a game is being played slow, so that the judge can watch it and issue warnings as appropriate.

#4 - Reinforcements cannot score gambit points. This will encourage people to actually risk pieces worth points in order to score points.

#5 - General Obi Wan Kenobi needs an errata losing MotF2, and changing SSM to negating only the first 20pts of damage received.

#6 - In any game that goes to the time limit, all figures who have taken 1/2 damage or more score as 1/2 their kill points (rounded down).

#7 - Change the 10 rule end game to include scoring Gambit points as qualifying to prevent the 10 round limit.

#8 - The final round of the National Championship will have a 2 hour time limit.

Ok, that's it for now, let me know what you all think.

Well, #2 is not my main concern. If we get the changes in the formats, you could effectively run "championship format" at any point level you wanted, 100, 150, or 200. I am 50/50 on changing our regionals and champs to 200, but others want it, so I added it.

As to using Endor in the "Open Format" I'd probably be ok with it, if others also want it. I definately say no to the open Hoth maps. I just feel Endor was a map designed to use with the concealment rules from the scenario pack, and it fails to be a useful map outside of that. But if others also want it in "Open" I would be willing to add it.

I am not willing to add it to "Huge Friendly" however. It presents way too much abuse even for a format that would be considered more friendly. HF needs to be restricted to both the maps that work for huges, and to those that are fair. I expect this would be the map list most places would use for 200pt games, when it's not Championship days.

Nice suggestions bill. There was one thing I wanted to say and it was that GOWK SSM should be worded the same as Luminara Jedi Master, and I agree he should either lose MOTF2 or Mettle. It would be nice to have him back in the game but without being overpowerful. As far as the championship formats I really can't give any input because I live so far from any DCI events, however I do follow up on rules, but I do like your suggestions for using specific maps.

I guess I will just add this about the GOWK change. This is not my personal recommendation. I have agreed with others that it would work, and if it happened, we can bring him back into DCI play. I am not really interested in a debate of what's best, as that has been done, and I already know pretty much everyone someone might suggest. I just wanted people to know, that those of us who helped get him banned, are the ones working on fixing him as well. And we have been for weeks.

Maybe this is just me, but I'd rather they keep Kenobi banned than try to fix the problem by axing some of his powers after the fact. If they're going to fix things, I think the best solution is to do it through other pieces and new abilities that can provide an effective counter to the kind of stuff he can do while still remaining competitive pieces in their own right (and don't require new pieces to take care of them in turn).

How about instead of errataing GOWK we errata Mettle so it doesn't stack?

Please do not debate GOWK. That is not the primary issue of this thread. We already know of all of the options, and we do not need another thread on the topic. As I said already, the only reason for including it, is to show that there are people working on getting him fixed.

Worst ideas ever!

I am kidding, I do not like some of the ideas and will comment fully when time permits.

DB