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Can We Just Pretend VSet 16 Does not Exist ? Options
Darth_Reignir
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2018 5:34:05 PM
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Props to the folks who worked on it for their hours spent on the set. Aside from that, I cannot believe the damage this set has caused. Even for V-Set standards, this is bad. Most of the good pieces are severely undercosted (Looking at Sheev and Anakin in particular.) Moreover the faction crossovers are just absurd. Obi-Wan and Maul as Fringe? Why?? Don't you see how abhorrent this is to the Star Wars Universe? It's like you don't even care anymore.

Sorry guys. Again. Thanks for trying to keep the train chugging along 8 years later, but we're just going to skip this one altogether.
gandalfthegreatestwizard
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2018 6:33:53 PM
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I don't think Fringe Maul is a bad idea. In canon, after the Clone Wars, Maul leads the Crimson Dawn (definitely a Fringe organization) and later attempts to destroy the Sith. There's definitely enough justification for a Fringe version, I think. As for Obi-Wan, I agree with you there. IMO Obi-Wan was definitely a Rebel from the end of the Republic until his death. He just wasn't an active part of the Rebellion because of the task Yoda had given him. The two minis are supposed to represent the pair during their duel in Rebels.
CorellianComedian
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2018 7:43:49 PM
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Anakin is overcosted? This will be the third Anakin to be good for something other than theme battles, and the 2nd of those that actually represent his normal combat style.

Which others would you say are overcosted?
kiki
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2018 8:53:37 PM
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I think he means undercosted @CC
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 3:03:27 AM
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Actually... the obi-wan represents him during the obi-wan book Kenobi.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 3:08:18 AM
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Not going to lie I followed set 16 closely and for a long time I had serious doubts the set would come together worth a crap... behind the scene playtesting issues led me to believe when it was dropped there would be an over abundance of overpowered junk that would ruin the game I waited and waited for it to drop and when it did.....

I was shocked to see the set. I am pleasantly surprised at how good the set turned out. what exactly is the problem? a fringe obi-wan... have you read the book? he is most definitely not a rebel during the book. He is Ben.

I admittedly don't know enough about Maul to comment on his status. so I won't.

But there is legitimately nothing in set 16 that is broken or over powered that I can find, and trust me I have spent hours pouring over squads and combinations for it.

I'd honestly like to know what about this set makes you want to skip it?
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 3:10:34 AM
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Sheev is a great piece, but does it break the sith? Can you build any squad with him where it is to powerful? Will it wreck tournaments, has sheev seriously tipped the scale for Sith being to good? I don't believe so, and if sheev makes sith playable then....HELL YEAH ITS ABOUT FREAKING TIME. I mean old republic got, bastilla, ven, satele.. new republic have a million options, etc etc.. what do sith have?
adamb0nd
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 6:05:40 AM
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most the gripes im seeing are flavor based. But we already threw flavor out the window a million times over when WoTC had the wheel. I think it's worth striving for flavor, but don't see the point in banning a set over it. Are there any legitimate mechanical issues that came from this set? Did it even shake the meta?
CorellianComedian
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 7:14:28 AM
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@kiki: Haha, thanks for catching that. I realized several hours later I had probably said the wrong thing.

@Reignir: I really do want to know. Sheev, I will say, is crazy good for his cost - I can't think of any time I'd want pick something else in the price range over him, except maybe Shae Vizsla.

Personally, I thought the rest of the set was too afraid of impacting the meta. The Old Republic got hosed with Bastila Rival on several pieces that don't offer much to compensate for the loss. They're trying to open up subfactions to work without Bastila, but the rival isn't on squad cornerstones, it's just random tech pieces.

For all my griping, thought, I know they put a lot of work into it, and are striving magnificently (and I think successfully) to avoid another Bastila or Commando Droid Officer or Imperial Governor.

Anyways, what are your thoughts, sir?
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 8:52:06 AM
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My thoughts are this...
FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING HOLY IMPACT THE META!!!

Just don't go overboard. Play testing is the issue imo. No one does enough play testing on possible meta shifting pieces for designers to feel safe putting out a power 9.5 piece. Sheev is power 9, but he is power 9 as a 30 point piece. Sith need power 9 pieces. I don't think sheev is powerful enough to want to bring sith. It seems caedus Barris is the best bet. I think vongerella will have more of a reach in competitive play then sheev tbh.

I don't feel that any piece really posted in squad into being better then any other squad. I don't feel like there is a new squad build either. (Except maybe vongerella)
If kas'im was not a commander and has a ce he would have been PERFECT. The ce made him not get bonus from Bandon and made the power disruptable/ distractible .. big loss in power

Anakin is not better (or only slightly better) than Serra or Quinlan.

Kao is regional fodder

Revan and malak need support from new pieces

DJ ..... Might be something that works but 22 points is alot. Double Attack saved the piece from bring 100% obsolete. Wedge Antilles was not really seen as worth it for a long time you Han, cl came around.


My thoughts on the set are that it looks made for regional play and the competitive realm was barely touched if at all. In that regard it failed to stimulate excitement for gencon, imo


jen'ari
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 8:54:23 AM
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I just read the op.
I have the exact opposite feelings.

Can we just ignore set 16? .. well yes we can. Their is nothing powerful enough there to worry about. So forget it and bring your 2014 squad to gencon and you will win since everyone is going to play "new stuff" that can't compete.
shmi15
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 10:12:00 AM
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I think there were absolutely some atrocious things in this set, but my gripe is mainly flavor.

The Sub Set should just be banned. Its not that good at all. And the Reylo piece is by far and large one of the worst pieces I've seen in 16 sets, both flavor and in general.

I think the biggest thing, is the designers still don't want to change pieces because "they" want a certain outcome. Playtesting is a joke, because if I critique something, if the designer still wants something to work the way they want, then they just say " well your the only one who thinks that", or " I still want this function, so I will change something else." That does zero good, and it turns people away from play testing, which is one of the biggest issues in sets in general, play testing.

Designers are getting worse in the sense that they do not want their designs talked bad about. Even in play testing. Note, this is not all designers, but it still happens.


But, like always, the biggest issue in this set, is it works against a lot of other sets.

OR got really no help in any sub faction that exists, and instead now has a new subfaction, that goes against the mainstream of the faction.

Sith has been nothing more than a random assortment of pieces, that you mix and match until you find some cohesion with pieces. I think a HUGE mistake has been made to not expand on the Subfactions that are built, or to create new subfactions. Why has the Brotherhood of darkness never been made a sub faction? And for the record, I think its absolutely stupid that 2 of the absolute best Sith tech pieces... Are Vong. Is this some back door joke to make the sith competitive through Vong pieces with Affinity?

Republic I think got some neat new toys, the Anakin being the best one, and I won't even complain about his cost, because its Anakin, and IMO, if a piece is going to be over powered and under costed... At least make it a main stream piece that has a real power level in the Universe.

Imps/NR I think are going in the right direction making pieces to fit into the subfactions First Order and resistance.
Altho Supreme Leader Snoke I think was a terrible boost for the faction. You now have to spend the 42 for him, and the 25/28 for a guard, just to get the +4/+10 damage boost... That is restricted to 6 squares and is disruptable.

Lily_Wan
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 11:12:50 AM
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jen'ari wrote:
Play testing is the issue imo. No one does enough play testing on possible meta shifting pieces for designers to feel safe putting out a power 9.5 piece.

This x10.

(Also, thank you jen & cohorts for the hours you put into playtesting v-set 17: On the Outer Rim.)
gandalfthegreatestwizard
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 12:18:34 PM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
Actually... the obi-wan represents him during the obi-wan book Kenobi.

Not according to one of the set's designers. They said it was supposed to be Kenobi from Rebels/ the comic where he faces Maul. (Incidentally, I would argue even more strongly against a Fringe Obi-wan representing him in Legends. In that timeline he actually ventures offworld to help the Rebels in 18 BBY. There's nothing Fringe about him at all.)
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 1:02:45 PM
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gandalfthegreatestwizard wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
Actually... the obi-wan represents him during the obi-wan book Kenobi.

Not according to the set's designers. They said it was supposed to be Kenobi from Rebels. (Incidentally, I would argue even more strongly against a Fringe Obi-wan representing him in Legends. In that timeline he actually ventures offworld to help the Rebels in 18 BBY. There's nothing Fringe about him at all.)



Yeah...they are wrong..lol...this piece was done by the ultrastar and yours truly.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 3:32:49 PM
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Lily_Wan wrote:
jen'ari wrote:
Play testing is the issue imo. No one does enough play testing on possible meta shifting pieces for designers to feel safe putting out a power 9.5 piece.

This x10.

(Also, thank you jen & cohorts for the hours you put into playtesting v-set 17: On the Outer Rim.)


iswydt
shmi15
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 4:26:12 PM
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Is this a Bothan Transmission? Or a drunken rant?
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 4:27:05 PM
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I see what you did there..
Is what that means
Lily_Wan
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 7:53:04 PM
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My gratitude is sincere. jen'ari has done a lot of good PT work.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Saturday, November 17, 2018 5:57:40 PM
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jen'ari wrote:
I see what you did there..
Is what that means


Wasn't that the first time the set name was mentioned publicly?
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