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Balance Committee Suggestions for 2022 Options
DarkDracul
Posted: Friday, July 30, 2021 2:50:00 PM
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Balance Committee Suggestions for the 2022 Season

The purpose of this thread is to collect a list of potential discussion topics for the 2022 tournament season.
Please make a single post for each individual topic you would like discussed by the BC.
You may include a brief paragraph synopsis and links to any related discussion threads.

This thread is not for discussion or debate over these topics or the Balance Committee itself.
If you are wanting to have a conversation go to a related thread or create a new one.

Do not repost topics already listed or request that ones be removed from this list.
Topics listed here are not guaranteed to make the final list of BC discussion items.
The BC will decide which topics are worth discussion by reading threads, taking polls, and reaching out to the community.

This list officially closes on December 31st, 2021.

Current List of Proposed Topics for Discussion
*CotG 27 Admiral Daala
*ATTA 20 Jabba Desilijic Tiure
*LTA 32 Bib Fortuna, Majordomo
*CotG 60 Warrior Caste Subcommander
*RTP 3 Malak, Jedi General
*CotG 12 Cin Drallig, Jedi Battlemaster
*DotF 9 Darth Revan, Sith Lord
*LotF 33 Han Solo, Galactic Hero
*SnV 52 Zam Wesell, Bounty Hunter
*Limited reinforcement pool
*Stacking of Save modifiers
*Changing Tournament Scoring Structure to 5-3-1 scoring.
*Changing Gambit
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Friday, July 30, 2021 6:59:34 PM
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Rigged Detonators - remove “attacks and”
This covers some of Mira above I’m sure, but the SA is part of the issue.
It should only be for abilities, not attacks.
See this thread:
Mira - Rigged Detonators
gholli69
Posted: Friday, July 30, 2021 7:47:51 PM
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Not sure it would be for the balance committee to decide, but the map outlaw city is pretty easily abused by characters with rigged detonators SA and is bad when facing a team with disruptive as well. I think Spry may have pointed it out after Gencon a few years ago and after a few recent games on it I agree that it may need to be cycled off the restricted list.
Caedus
Posted: Saturday, July 31, 2021 3:26:39 AM
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gholli69 wrote:
Not sure it would be for the balance committee to decide, but the map outlaw city is pretty easily abused by characters with rigged detonators SA and is bad when facing a team with disruptive as well. I think Spry may have pointed it out after Gencon a few years ago and after a few recent games on it I agree that it may need to be cycled off the restricted list.


That's a Map Commitee decision and I assure you that is being talked about
spryguy1981
Posted: Saturday, July 31, 2021 6:41:11 AM
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I'm assuming you mean 12/31/21 Bryan. As the post says 12/31/22 lol.
DarkDracul
Posted: Saturday, July 31, 2021 6:50:44 AM
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spryguy1981 wrote:
I'm assuming you mean 12/31/21 Bryan. As the post says 12/31/22 lol.

Yep, thanks Spry.
TimmerB123
Posted: Saturday, July 31, 2021 8:38:09 PM
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Changing Tournament Scoring Structure to 5-3-1 scoring.

5pts = A win with 200+pts (aka full win)
3pts = A win with under 200pts (aka partial win)
1pt = A loss scoring 100+

http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=28660

On a personal level I'd do it entirely differently (Record first, H2H next, tournament score 3rd, no 1pt losses in tournament score but only as a 4th or 5th tie-breaker.)

BUT

After numerous multi-page threads with many different opinions, 5-3-1 seems to be the simplest change that the most people could get on board with. So although it's a personal concession, 5-3-1 is my proposal.

TimmerB123
Posted: Saturday, July 31, 2021 8:46:38 PM
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Gambit should not be scored for either player if both players have qualifying pieces in gambit.

http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=28681&p=4

The point of Gambit is to encourage engagement. Once both players have qualifying pieces in gambit, it has served it's purpose. The only thing continuing to score gambit in this scenario does is to end games prematurely. Games should be decided through engagement, not meaningless points stacking up.
TimmerB123
Posted: Saturday, July 31, 2021 8:48:20 PM
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Games should not end before time is up if both players have pieces left on the board that can do damage.

http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=28689

Games should be decided on actual engagement, not meaningless points stacking up to end games before time.
TimmerB123
Posted: Saturday, July 31, 2021 8:48:50 PM
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Separating the "Balance Committee" into 2 distinct groups, since it is currently serving two separate roles.

http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=31455

Group 1 - The Design Balance Committee.
This would cover the Balance Committee's original purpose. They would be there to make sure character designs are "balanced" within the game. Or rather, making sure no piece puts the game out of balance. This is very important and necessary, and deserves its own focus. From the first post; *CotG 27 Admiral Daala , *ATTA 20 Jabba Desilijic Tiure, *LTA 32 Bib Fortuna, Majordomo, *SHA 35 Mira of Nar Shaddaa, and *CotG 60 Warrior Caste Subcommander would all be topics for their docket. I think there could be one or two others, but the list was fairly complete.

Group 2 - The Gameplay Balance Committee.
Very important decisions related to this matter have been handled by the balance committee, but the community would be better served having a committee with it's focus solely on those matters. Anything outside of specific character design balance issues related to gameplay would fall under their purview. From the initial post; *Limited reinforcement pool
*Stacking of Save modifiers , and *General Tournament Play and would all be topics for their docket. This list is of course woefully short, several topics that have have major discussion completely missing from this list. Whether by intent or not, this proves that these topics are not being given the weight and consideration they deserve. "General tournament play" is a overly generic catch-all that needs to be delineated out. Many more topics that need to be addressed are already listed in this thread and others. Changing to 5-3-1 Scoring, Gambit not scored for either player if both players have qualifying pieces in gambit, stacking of damage boosts, Games not ending before time when there are pieces left that can do damage for both players, are all very important topics that were not listed, proving that fair weight is not being given to them. There were 4 page, 5 page, and 6 page threads devoted to these topics, and they aren't even listed in the initial post here? This alone speaks to the need of a separate and independent Gameplay Balance Committee.



Separating into 2 distinct groups serves 2 purposes.
1. It gives more specific focus to each unique category.
2. It "Balances" the power into 2 groups, so that one group does not make all decisions alone for our community.


To be clear, I don't think anyone on the balance committee is trying to be the all-powerful arbiters of our game. That doesn't mean that it's still not best for the game to have 2 separate groups.

I think the best course of action would be to split the current members of the Balance Committee in half, the members themselves voting for who they think would be best in each group. In other words, instead of volunteering, their peers should be the ones to say where their strength lies. Then each group can add a few members through the same voting method we've had in the past.

jen'ari
Posted: Monday, August 2, 2021 9:33:44 AM
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Balance Committee should work on balancing the game by faction. Every Faction should have a tier 1 squad. Some factions have suffered for a decade and nothing has been done about it. The design team cannot be trusted to balance the game. Every year when a new set comes out I would add a few changes to old pieces that would help the game. You would make a list of the changes and push it out to people.

I would start balancing the factions by the following changes:

Old Republic:

Lift Rival from Malak, Jedi General.

Sith:

Make Revan, SL's CE boardwide.

New Republic:

Make Han Solo, GH cost 35

Republic:

Make Cin Drallig have Triple Attack and Disciplined Leader





Caedus
Posted: Monday, August 2, 2021 3:53:11 PM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Gambit should not be scored for either player if both players have qualifying piece in Gambit


I would actually make this more engaging by stating. Gambit is scored to the player with the Highest qualifying piece.

If I have my 51 pt main attacker, you shouldn't be able to shut it off with your squib trader. If you want to engage, then engage. Sticking a qualifying piece in gambit to shut off scoring so someone can take 3 rds to get into position isn't engaging. It's stalling and the person initiating Gambit with the higher qualifying piece should be rewarded.
Cassus fett
Posted: Monday, August 2, 2021 4:54:58 PM
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Caedus wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Gambit should not be scored for either player if both players have qualifying piece in Gambit


I would actually make this more engaging by stating. Gambit is scored to the player with the Highest qualifying piece.

If I have my 51 pt main attacker, you shouldn't be able to shut it off with your squib trader. If you want to engage, then engage. Sticking a qualifying piece in gambit to shut off scoring so someone can take 3 rds to get into position isn't engaging. It's stalling and the person initiating Gambit with the higher qualifying piece should be rewarded.


I think this is a stupendous idea. If you want Gambit, then you have to commit something worth it.
Uggie Demo
Posted: Monday, August 2, 2021 5:03:18 PM
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Caedus wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Gambit should not be scored for either player if both players have qualifying piece in Gambit


I would actually make this more engaging by stating. Gambit is scored to the player with the Highest qualifying piece.

If I have my 51 pt main attacker, you shouldn't be able to shut it off with your squib trader. If you want to engage, then engage. Sticking a qualifying piece in gambit to shut off scoring so someone can take 3 rds to get into position isn't engaging. It's stalling and the person initiating Gambit with the higher qualifying piece should be rewarded.


The problem I could see with that is what if your opponent doesn’t have a 51 point piece? For example there are plenty of squads with the main attackers around the 30-40 point range, not to mention trooper type squads with their higher cost characters being more commanders then attackers. Just because someone throws out their 85 point Obi-kin, or 67 point Mando, doesn’t necessarily mean that their opponents with a 40 point Luke or 50 Yoda aren’t engaging.
Darth_Jim
Posted: Monday, August 2, 2021 5:16:00 PM
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Uggie Demo wrote:
Caedus wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Gambit should not be scored for either player if both players have qualifying piece in Gambit


I would actually make this more engaging by stating. Gambit is scored to the player with the Highest qualifying piece.

If I have my 51 pt main attacker, you shouldn't be able to shut it off with your squib trader. If you want to engage, then engage. Sticking a qualifying piece in gambit to shut off scoring so someone can take 3 rds to get into position isn't engaging. It's stalling and the person initiating Gambit with the higher qualifying piece should be rewarded.


The problem I could see with that is what if your opponent doesn’t have a 51 point piece? For example there are plenty of squads with the main attackers around the 30-40 point range, not to mention trooper type squads with their higher cost characters being more commanders then attackers. Just because someone throws out their 85 point Obi-kin, or 67 point Mando, doesn’t necessarily mean that their opponents with a 40 point Luke or 50 Yoda aren’t engaging.


Another issue is if someone has a squad where pieces set up in gambit. The other squad may have to take a few turns to properly engage to route them out. If they want to prevent that squad from getting gambit and they risk say that squib trader to cancel gambit, its up to the other player to move out of his kill zone to stop it. Its not necessarily stalling, but good strategy to not just rush in and play the other player's game.
DarkDracul
Posted: Monday, August 2, 2021 6:07:20 PM
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This thread is not for discussion or debate over these topics or the Balance Committee itself.
If you are wanting to have a conversation go to a related thread or create a new one.
Thanks
Caedus
Posted: Monday, August 2, 2021 6:28:47 PM
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DarkDracul wrote:
This thread is not for discussion or debate over these topics or the Balance Committee itself.
If you are wanting to have a conversation go to a related thread or create a new one.
Thanks


Sorry, not my intent.
DarkDracul
Posted: Monday, August 2, 2021 11:27:03 PM
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Edited to "Changing Gambit"
DarkDracul
Posted: Friday, August 6, 2021 8:32:36 PM
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SnV 52 Zam Wesell, Bounty Hunter
Lower the cost due to the nerf of Rigged Detonators and correct the misspelling of her name on her card.
Respect for the Zam!
FlyingArrow
Posted: Saturday, August 7, 2021 7:58:14 AM
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I would recommend removing the errata on Director Orson Krennic and banning him.
I would recommend removing the errata on Togorian Black Sun Vigo and then banning him.
I would recommend removing the errata on Yun Ne'Shel Priest and then banning him.
I would recommend removing the errata on on Unkar Plutt and then banning him (floor rules fixed the Reserves issue).
I would recommend removing the errata on The Father (ban him if there's a combo worth banning).
I would recommend removing the errata on Suppressive Fire and then banning Morrigan Corde.

I would recommend removing the errata on Rigged Detonators.
I would recommend removing the errata on Eighth Cortex Shaper.
I would recommend removing the errata on Jango Fett, Mandalore.

All of the other changes either have a printed errata card, are just a cost change, or are just a glossary/floor rules change.
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