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Force Attuned and extra attacks? Options
gholli69
Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2022 1:47:30 PM
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So recently while looking in the custom character forums I commented on a custom Yoda that Udorian84 had created saying it was really powerful due to having Triple, Force Attuned, and leaping assault. In my mind that combo leads to 6 potential attacks if you use FA to leaping assault next to someone and then Triple. I think it was Gandalf that then posted that that wasn't how that combo would work because FA doesn't let you generate extra attacks/ attack phases, that you could only still make you regular attacks. So then my question is can Yoda Moto use FA to lightsaber throw at the end of his turn, because I am sure I have seen it played that way but that would be generating extra attacks correct? Also, the Metra Surik that has Jedi crusade has a very similar ability that lets certain allies use a FP that replaces attack without replacing attack. So in that instance if a character were to use LS flurry for instance would that mean they can't make their own attacks after using jedi crusade to use a RA ability or do they get to flurry and then use their normal attack phase? These both seem really similar so thought I would ask for clarification.
thereisnotry
Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2022 2:38:57 PM
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Here's the thing: I'm no rules guy, but it seems to me that Force Attuned *would* allow this custom Yoda to use Leaping Assault and then follow it up with a regular triple attack.

Force Attuned shows up on a LOT of characters nowadays, so it's probably worth getting this one right.
gandalfthegreatestwizard
Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2022 3:18:12 PM
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It's not a matter of "you can't generate extra attacks during your Force Attuned replace attacks/turn". You can. LS Throw and Flurry both let you do so. It's because Leaping Assault works differently from those abilities. Leaping Assault doesn't give you new attacks. It lets you make your normal attacks that you can normally make in your turn. If you use those, then you have used your normal attacks. You can't make them again.

The rules committee decided this in Jan 2021, and TJ left a comment on the glossary of Leaping Assault to this effect.
gholli69
Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2022 4:38:53 PM
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So it is leaping assault specifically that causes it and not the FA. Still doesn't make sense as FA clearly states replaces attacks or TURN without replacing attacks or TURN, but not the first time something in this game doesn't make sense. Also good to know that the other stuff like throw and flurry do still work.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2022 7:46:15 PM
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gholli69 wrote:
So it is leaping assault specifically that causes it and not the FA. Still doesn't make sense as FA clearly states replaces attacks or TURN without replacing attacks or TURN, but not the first time something in this game doesn't make sense. Also good to know that the other stuff like throw and flurry do still work.


It makes sense. It's just that Leaping Assault is weird compared to most other abilities. Leaping Assault grants you movement without provoking attack of opportunity. And then it grants an attack phase where you can use your normal attacks (but not a replaces-attacks ability). These are not bonus attacks - they're the attacks you could normally do anyway. Additionally, the particular movement does NOT prevent the use of multiple attacks - it's like GMA in that sense.

Since there are no attacks granted by Leaping Assault, using it twice via Force Attuned would just let you move 12 squares and still use all your normal attacks.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2022 7:48:48 PM
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gholli69 wrote:
So then my question is can Yoda Moto use FA to lightsaber throw at the end of his turn, because I am sure I have seen it played that way but that would be generating extra attacks correct?


Yes, Yoda Moto can do that. Lightsaber Throw generates an attack.

Quote:
Also, the Metra Surik that has Jedi crusade has a very similar ability that lets certain allies use a FP that replaces attack without replacing attack. So in that instance if a character were to use LS flurry for instance would that mean they can't make their own attacks after using jedi crusade to use a RA ability or do they get to flurry and then use their normal attack phase? These both seem really similar so thought I would ask for clarification.


LS Flurry generates attacks, so you could LS Flurry and still get regular attacks.
gholli69
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2022 4:08:07 PM
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Yes, I understand now about Leaping assault. However, the part that is questionable to me is the replaces Turn part. Usually when you use a replaces Turn ability that is the only action you get to perform that turn. So in my mind it seemed like you should LA with FA which replaces turn so make all attacks that turn, but then FA says without replacing turn so it seemed like you should still get to make attacks on the separate Turn created by FA in addition to your normal attacks. The wording is just tricky with it being a replaces turn ability. Thanks for the insight though.
thereisnotry
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2022 5:09:22 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Since there are no attacks granted by Leaping Assault, using it twice via Force Attuned would just let you move 12 squares and still use all your normal attacks.
This clarifies it for me. Thank you. It creates an opportunity to make your attacks, but doesn't grant attacks.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, December 16, 2022 7:32:29 PM
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thereisnotry wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
Since there are no attacks granted by Leaping Assault, using it twice via Force Attuned would just let you move 12 squares and still use all your normal attacks.
This clarifies it for me. Thank you. It creates an opportunity to make your attacks, but doesn't grant attacks.


Oh, actually I misspoke slightly.

Using Force Attuned is a zero time ability. If you replace your turn, there is no opportunity to also use zero time abilities. So you can use Leaping Assault via Force Attuned, but you cannot use Leaping Assault again on the same turn.
CorellianComedian
Posted: Saturday, December 17, 2022 10:07:00 AM
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So in a sense, Leaping Assault is like Greater Mobile Attack, right?

To totally overcomplicate things, Lightsaber Blitz (from Rey Skywalker) grants extra attacks in the exact same fashion that Double or Triple Attack do:
Quote:
Spend up to 2 Force points, usable once per turn on this character's turn; instead of moving, this character can make 1 cumulative extra attack per Force point spent. This character can only attack adjacent enemies this turn.

and those extra attacks can be made even if you move if you have Greater Mobile Attack.

So Leaping Assault would work the same way - a character with Leaping Assault, Double Attack, Lightsaber Blitz, and Master of the Force could spend 4 Force points to use Leaping Assault and Lightsaber Blitz and make 4 attacks. Neither Leaping Assault or Greater Mobile Attack generate extra attacks, they simply allow you to make the attacks you normally would have if you had stood still.
gandalfthegreatestwizard
Posted: Saturday, December 17, 2022 2:58:02 PM
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I'm going to say no on using Lightsaber Blitz with Leaping Assault since the latter replaces turn and the former is a zero-time ability. You normally don't have the opportunity to use zero-time abilities when replacing your turn, and this doesn't seem like it would be an exception like Sith Rage or Master Speed. It could be though.
Caedus
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2022 8:51:23 PM
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gholli69 wrote:
Yes, I understand now about Leaping assault. However, the part that is questionable to me is the replaces Turn part. Usually when you use a replaces Turn ability that is the only action you get to perform that turn. So in my mind it seemed like you should LA with FA which replaces turn so make all attacks that turn, but then FA says without replacing turn so it seemed like you should still get to make attacks on the separate Turn created by FA in addition to your normal attacks. The wording is just tricky with it being a replaces turn ability. Thanks for the insight though.


So the best way I can explain this and maybe it will help, but I'm sure someone will jump on and split hairs

Take Force Leap

Force 1 This turn, this character can move through enemy characters without provoking attacks of opportunity

Now take Leaping Assault


Force 2, replaces turn: Move this character to any unoccupied square within 6 squares. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity. After moving, this character may still make all of its attacks this turn.

The bold is the "actual" CE. After the movement you can use all of your Base Attacks ie; Double, Triple, Quad.

It doesn't actually generate new or replace attacks like Lightsaber Sweep or Assault does.



Think of Leaping Assault as Greater Mobile Attack added to Force Leap.

Hope that helps
Caedus
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2022 8:53:30 PM
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CorellianComedian wrote:
So in a sense, Leaping Assault is like Greater Mobile Attack, right?

So Leaping Assault would work the same way - a character with Leaping Assault, Double Attack can make 2 attacks. Neither Leaping Assault or Greater Mobile Attack generate extra attacks, they simply allow you to make the attacks you normally would have if you had stood still.



Yes!!!!
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