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followers gain extra attack etc., a repetetive commander effect? Options
shatterpoint7
Posted: Saturday, November 7, 2009 2:44:55 PM
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I think we have too many minis that give multiple attacks

Extra: Flobi
Darth krayt
Grievous sotj
Vader lotf
Gen windu
Imp gov tarkin
Jedi exile

Double: Gen aayla secura
Gen grievous sup comm.
Geonisian overseer
Nym
Old rep commander
Star destroyer officer
Tion medon
Vong subaltern

Twin: Whorm loathsome
Grievous dac
Rebel capt
headache62
Posted: Saturday, November 7, 2009 3:08:59 PM
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shatterpoint7 wrote:
I think we have too many minis that give multiple attacks



Ok....care to elaborate? Give some alternatives? Offer ideas, analysis, or solutions? I'd like to discuss it, but can you give some more insight into your point of view?
Mandelmauler
Posted: Saturday, November 7, 2009 3:20:20 PM
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The characters that give Extra are usually expensive or their CE is restrictive (tarkin).

The characters that give Double are usually either expensive or too restrictive (YV subaltern).

The Twin givers are the most useful to make old characters useful.

All may be aggravating, but they do not make the whole squad. It really depends on the rest of the squad. I have made many squads that do not use any of these and have beaten squads containing one or more of these. It just takes confidence and practice.
dperron
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 2:14:35 AM
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While I can see your point about having a lot of characters that offer the same bonuses, you seem to have omited something important in your list. These characters are, for the most part, all from different factions. Under only one circumstance would you have a squad with ALL of those characters working together, and that's a mixed faction house rule. I agree with you only in the sense that each faction doesn't need multiple pieces offering the same CEs, but you'll note the New Republic does not have a piece on yuor list. They should, so I guess there aren't enough yet.
Mickey
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 2:18:03 AM
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Also some of those have specific requirements to be met to give those extra attacks. Other than a specialty squad how many use Tion? I don't see alot of those being used regularly in competitions.
DarthJak
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 2:24:18 AM
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zorc62
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 2:51:50 AM
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It's necessary to have these CEs in a world where everyone and their dog has Evade.
Capin_ahab
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 4:28:54 AM
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zorc62 wrote:
It's necessary to have these CEs in a world where everyone and their dog has Evade.

Like who has evade?
Farmers.
Who Else?
Farmers dogs.
Sorry for the thread jacking i had to post a quote (albiet significantly changed) from my favorite movie.

And on topic i think those CEs are quite balanced due to their restrictiveness or their high cost.
IG-108
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 4:41:11 AM
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You forgot to list General Grievous, Scourge of the Jedi as a character that grants Extra Attack.

I find that while those commander effects seem to show up a lot, it's usually with a high cost character, (and/or) restrictive, and usually there's only one character per faction that gives such a commander effect.
I also find that those CEs are very good for new players to start learning how to make effective squads. Where better to start than with a single good unique commander that grants extra attacks and build around it? At least, that's how I started.
shatterpoint7
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 5:24:40 AM
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i'm just feeling that wizards are running out of ideas. i like the uniqueness of minis, at least in the first 6 or so sets. now they're just making sure most every faction has access to the same ce's. i used to like all the differences between the factions, what they had, and what they didn't. now its pretty easy to get almost every figure an extra attck, or an attack bonus.
IG-108
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 5:28:19 AM
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Well then that would make the factions more even. Isn't that a good thing?
swmimperial130
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 5:30:40 AM
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IG-108 wrote:
Well then that would make the factions more even. Isn't that a good thing?

According to shatterpoint7, no
According to most of the factions that don't get much love (NR, OR, Vong, Mandos) then yes, it is a good thing
headache62
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 5:48:15 AM
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shatterpoint7 wrote:
i'm just feeling that wizards are running out of ideas.


Well, the original designer (Rob) did a great job of building the game, and now we have a new designer (Peter) who's designs will show up in the Dark Times set. Let's see what he comes up with - I personally am looking forward to what is to come.
billiv15
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 6:06:20 AM
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First off, the thread title is misleading. Some of these CEs do not apply to "followers". In that case, there are only 3, General Windu, The Jedi Exile and Darth Krayt. All of the others are different. I know he posted, "ect" but that's a critical point here. He/she is overgeneralizing these CEs as if they all function the same. Further, even if they were exactly the same, the factions they are in, and the other abilities of that given figure make all of these play very different from one another. I'm sorry, but I see almost 0 significant similarities between what I do with The Jedi Exile and what I do with Vader LotF for example.
StevenO
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 7:53:02 AM
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shatterpoint7 wrote:
I think we have too many minis that give multiple attacks

Extra: Flobi
Darth krayt
Grievous sotj
Vader lotf
Gen windu
Imp gov tarkin
Jedi exile

Double: Gen aayla secura
Gen grievous sup comm.
Geonisian overseer
Nym
Old rep commander
Star destroyer officer
Tion medon
Vong subaltern

Twin: Whorm loathsome
Grievous dac
Rebel capt

Now who in this list is really considered all that broken and/or dangerous? Two Seps can grant Twin as command effects but how often do you see the Rebel Captain breaking squads? Twin is certainly nice especially when combined with the ability to make multiple "normal" attacks but does that break those commanders?

As for all those other commanders who can grant additional attacks how many of them are that strong? You forgot to include the Commando Droid Captian in your list of Double but most of those double granting figures don't see much play outside of the very targetted effects of a few. Of the pieces that just grant an Extra Attack (you left of the GONK Power Droid) most are very expensive pieces with some general limit on their power.

Now as far as I'm concerned the biggest offender in the war of multiple attack is NOT the figures which allow for multiple attacks but those pieces which can MOVE and still make multiple attacks. I really think Greater Mobile Attack is one of the most broken abilities in the game even if you compare it to things like Evade. If a piece has to choose to stand still inorder to use multiple attacks then all those extra attacks carry their own risk as you will need to be exposed for multiple rounds to use the full attack; if you wanted to move you were restricted to one attack (or twin) although mobile allowed you to retreat to cover. GMA breaks that by not only allowing you to move before making all of those attack but it still allows you to retreat once the attacks are made; if GMA just allowed you to move and make multiple attacks or act as MA it would be a lot better in my opinion.
Jediabiwan
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 12:14:51 PM
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billiv15 wrote:
First off, the thread title is misleading. Some of these CEs do not apply to "followers". In that case, there are only 3, General Windu, The Jedi Exile and Darth Krayt. All of the others are different. I know he posted, "ect" but that's a critical point here. He/she is overgeneralizing these CEs as if they all function the same. Further, even if they were exactly the same, the factions they are in, and the other abilities of that given figure make all of these play very different from one another. I'm sorry, but I see almost 0 significant similarities between what I do with The Jedi Exile and what I do with Vader LotF for example.


Don't forget Vader LotF gives it to followers! Also Capt. Argyus, Mando Captain, and Czerka can give twin. Why complain about commanders giving extra attack when the Gonk droid has been giving all shooters extra attack since universe BigGrin .
Draconarius
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 1:43:26 PM
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zorc62 wrote:
It's necessary to have these CEs in a world where everyone and their dog has Evade.


And Evade is necessary in a world where everyone and their dog can move and then kill a piece multiple times their size in one activation.
Jediabiwan
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 1:56:17 PM
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Draconarius wrote:
zorc62 wrote:
It's necessary to have these CEs in a world where everyone and their dog has Evade.


And Evade is necessary in a world where everyone and their dog can move and and kill a piece multiple times their size in one move.


Which came first, the evade or the multiple attacks????
Dr. Destructo
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 1:58:35 PM
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actually I think both Evade and Twin came out in Bounty Hunters, so neither was first.
Draconarius
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 2:04:32 PM
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Dr. Destructo wrote:
actually I think both Evade and Twin came out in Bounty Hunters, so neither was first.


Actually, the Ishii Tib Scout from Clone Strike had Evade, so it came out long before Twin ever appeared.

EDIT: Yep, it definitely was in Clone Strike.
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