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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Hey guys,
Some of you may remember me from my intermittent griping about the V-Set. To me, and to most of my group, we've come to the conclusion that the power jump between most V-Set pieces and the last Vanilla set is so great that it renders most vanilla pieces worthless.
So for a long time we banned the V-Set so that the game could be enjoyable to the casual players.
Now we're feeling ballsy. We've developed an idea to allow V-Set into the game without completely breaking Star Wars Miniatures. This posted is for those people out there, who - like me - are stuck between a rock and a hardspot with V-Set.
By allowing a SINGLE PIECE of V-Set into the game, and banning certain pieces that we feel are too overpowered (Looking at you, Mace Windu and Darth Zannha), we feel that the V-Set can slowly be incorporated back into regular gameplay.
Let us know if it works out for you folks. Thus far, the game has been much more enjoyable for us.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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I can sympathise to an extent with your group's position but I'm not sure you understand the situation. "Vanilla" pieces were never competitive under WotC. They were always crap compared to the good pieces. The Vsets have the express goal of expanding the once-limited pool of options for Tier 1 squad building. It's not power-creep, it's just an increase of frequency of Tier-1 pieces.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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That may be your opinion, and you are well-entitled to it. But I'm afraid I have to completely disgree. Yes it's true, I will grant you that there are some neat pud pieces out there now. The problem is that in that mix of cool new Battle droids or more contending Jedi, you have some pieces that are wickedly overpowered. Mace Windu and Darth Zahnna, for example, are the two most prominent pieces.
The problem with the V-Set, at least for us, has been that there are some more typically conservative players, such as myself, who prefer using the pieces that WotC released. But for me, none of my teams stand a fighting chance against someone who brings in V-Set stuff. There are just too many new jinxes and rules that force me to either play pieces I really don't want to play, or quit. I elected the latter for a very long time. And it sucked. But now that we're going in and editting these pieces on our own to be more balanced, we're finding the games to be a LOT more enjoyable.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Without taking sides on such a tired debate...
I think this is a fantastic idea and want to know more.
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Darth_Reignir wrote:Mace Windu and Darth Zahnna, for example, are the two most prominent pieces. I think wizards had a few pieces that were on this power level, and at the least, GOWK was undeniably on the same playing field as them. But if you don't like them, don't use them. Maybe you could start with something like only allowing 1 vset piece per squad, or non unique v-set pieces or something like that. Play around with it, and as you slowly introduce more and more pieces, the idea of allowing more black listed pieces into your builds may become more appealing. Its really just like a new player. Most start with the 100 pt game, then slowly get comfortable and move on to 150, and then eventually 200. GL 
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Plenty of Chocolate, Strawberry and lordy, Rainbow Sherbet in the V-sets. There is also lots of Vanilla.
What about just going through them one at a time, any "no" vote don't use it. This might bring a breath of fresh
air, excuse me, taste of something new a little faster.
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juice man wrote:Plenty of Chocolate, Strawberry and lordy, Rainbow Sherbet in the V-sets. There is also lots of Vanilla.
What about just going through them one at a time, any "no" vote don't use it. This might bring a breath of fresh
air, excuse me, taste of something new a little faster. We will probably end up doing this. I like your analogy!
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Darth_Reignir wrote:That may be your opinion, and you are well-entitled to it. But I'm afraid I have to completely disgree. Yes it's true, I will grant you that there are some neat pud pieces out there now. The problem is that in that mix of cool new Battle droids or more contending Jedi, you have some pieces that are wickedly overpowered. Mace Windu and Darth Zahnna, for example, are the two most prominent pieces.
The problem with the V-Set, at least for us, has been that there are some more typically conservative players, such as myself, who prefer using the pieces that WotC released. But for me, none of my teams stand a fighting chance against someone who brings in V-Set stuff. There are just too many new jinxes and rules that force me to either play pieces I really don't want to play, or quit. I elected the latter for a very long time. And it sucked. But now that we're going in and editting these pieces on our own to be more balanced, we're finding the games to be a LOT more enjoyable. As others have said, this is a tired debate. As they have also said, they may or may not be overpowered miniatures but WotC unquestionably had their own offenders.
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Mace and zannah were two highly discussed pieces, but try them. On paper mace looks like a beast. In a game hes not really better than any other figure for his point cost.
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You’re the master of the universe. Pick the pieces that enhance your vanilla collection. Leave out what bothers you.
I can't tell you enough in how many ways the v-sets enhanced my gaming experience. There are sculpts of VR that I could never play but now I'm using them. You know if I just look at the NR as a faction and how many fun pieces are available now and what our vanilla collection gave us, how can you resist not taking them out for a spin.
I find myself making themed squads more than ever before. Some of the v-set pieces demonstrate a deep knowledge and love of the star wars lore from the designers. So much fun.
Talking about power creep. I'm confused how you can look at a piece like mas amada and not think that it is outrageous. Or even r2-d2 with override and tow. Those are pieces that are maybe 4-5 years old and still make it into any squad today. I mean look at rieken or ... anyway.
I agree with you that some abilities are given out too freely to some random unnamed characters. That brings me to where I think you might feel the creep the most: the tech squads. When I read how some of these tourneys are played and what squads are played I get a gag reflex. Because I feel that it’s the Game and the Rules that are played. NOT the "star wars spirit" game. Just house rule those pieces or play style.
In conclusion I'm confident that the v-set pieces will enhance your miniatures experience.
Good luck.
Cheers
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Darthbane53 wrote:Mace and zannah were two highly discussed pieces, but try them. On paper mace looks like a beast. In a game hes not really better than any other figure for his point cost. Yeah, Mace dies fast very against shooters. As for Zannah, she might stay alive but she sure dosen't do much during her life.
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corranhorn wrote:As for Zannah, she might stay alive but she sure dosen't do much during her life. Kinda like in the books. *ducks tomatoes*
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The Vsets are there to use at your leisure. Many of the figs will fit in nicely with WotC, particularly from the sith, old republic, vong and mandalorians that were always left wanting by WotC.
The only time you are better off playing with them is in a tournament where they are legal because, yes, many figs are overpowered compared to the vast majority of the WotC figs.
But this is mainly because a higher percentage of figures are balanced against the BEST WotC figures
If you compare Zanna to General Obi Wan Kenobi then there isn't a lot of difference.
Mace is an exception, he kind of introduced all kinds of presidents. Poggle is the same. They did stuff that really is too cheap.
Take what you want from them and discard the rest. No-one will or should hold it against you.
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PrimeClone wrote:
Talking about power creep. I'm confused how you can look at a piece like mas amada and not think that it is outrageous. Or even r2-d2 with override and tow. Those are pieces that are maybe 4-5 years old and still make it into any squad today. I mean look at rieken or ... anyway.
Yes, this is a good point. The disparity in the strength of WotC pieces is basically the drving force to what seems to be powercreep now. Its not all down to that but it has a lot to do with it.
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I didn't start this thread to debate the validity of V-Set cheese. Everyone has their own opinion on it. My group has decided it ruins the game, and I agree.
This thread is for people out there who are like my group, and want to try to incorporate V-Set back in.
This has been our remedy and thus far it has worked.
If your only addition to this thread it to piss and moan about how you don't want to debate V-Set, there's an easy solution to your woes - the back button.
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Darth_Reignir wrote:
If your only addition to this thread it to piss and moan about how you don't want to debate V-Set, there's an easy solution to your woes - the back button.
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Darth_Reignir wrote:
This thread is for people out there who are like my group, and want to try to incorporate V-Set back in.
This has been our remedy and thus far it has worked.
I also think that some of the pieces are a bit overpowered. However, instead of just allowing a single piece or two from the V-Sets (which isn't as fun for me), I'm going to be looking at the overpowered pieces, for both WotC and the V-Sets, and trying to make them unbroken. GOWK is my favorite example. Anyway, good luck. I hope that your group manages to work something out.
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Its nice to see that you're group is starting to take a closer look at the v-sets. Somebody mentioned earlier that there is a lot of vanilla in the v-sets not to mention a lot of things that are costed too high for what you get.
For me personally I love the v-sets even though there are characters created that I don't particularly care for. In my opinion the good far outweighs the bad.
If there are some specific characters that are especially polarizing for you group perhaps you can find a way to instead modify them so you don't have to outright ban them. For instance some people have suggested house rules for Mace to drop his flurry as well as the Force Absorb. That way he can't neutralize Mara Jade Jedi or drop your one big weapon in one fell swoop. Same with Bastilla. If your group doesn't like her wiping out Rebels or other CE heavy squads then make her start with fewer force points. That will limit how often she can use ABM. And if you want to outright ban characters that's cool too. I would try some characters out first though. I have seen some people want to ban characters just because they believe they are overpowered. The Yammosk War Coordinator comes to mind. In reality that's a vital character for the Vong and the CE copying normally isn't the difference in your skirmishes.
Good luck!
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It is all about house rules. Do what you think is fun. Just be aware that at tournaments they are legal. But hey if your group isn't into the tournament scene then that is ok too. Some people really do like tournaments
Heck our group at one point in time had rules for 3-D terrain. Why? because we wanted to have fun and that is what it is really about and that is what we did.
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If you want the actual V set cards, I'm the guy to contact (they are sitting at my house).
I have V set 2, 3, 4 and 5 along with Epic 1 & 2. V set 1 is OOP, but I do have promo cards of the more popular pieces.
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