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eMouse
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 4:37:40 AM
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I want to make sure I'm understanding the wording on the card correctly.

Is the 'stolen' commander effect considered to be the Yammosk's commander effect for game mechanics purposes? If so, since the War Coordinator ability only applies to allied commanders, the commander effect that is 'stolen' does not get its benefits, correct?
General Ed
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 5:00:22 AM
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DarthJoe8 wrote:
When I click on the link all it does for me is send me to FB. No preview... Confused


Just copy and paste the whole URL not just clicking what's highlighted blue.
Ruhk
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 5:01:45 AM
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I can't remember what exactly is on the preview card, but this is the intent (and is still being worked on as we speak) :

-Yammosk may steal 1 CE from enemy squad, you may not change it mid way through the match. Faction specific CEs (like Princess Leia's, or Queen Amidala), are 'changed' to affect Yuuzhan Vongs
-YVWC applies to all SA that affect YV(the faction) allies, and to all allied CE including its own, for the rest of the skirmish
eMouse
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 5:06:45 AM
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Ruhk wrote:
-YVWC applies to all SA that affect YV(the faction) allies, and to all allied CE including its own, for the rest of the skirmish


Maybe the wording has been modified already for the final release, but it definitely needs to be different from what's in the preview. The game is very picky about "allies" not including the figure with the ability. As written in the preview, the YVWC ability would not boost the commander effect provided by the Yammosk.

EDIT

A new version of the card has been posted to Facebook. LINK

It fixes the wording to what was intended, in addition to the name of the figure.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 6:04:26 AM
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"Once per turn, each follower within 6 squares may reroll 1 attack at +4 Attack and +10 Damage. If the result of the rerolled attack is a miss, the attacking character is defeated. "

Sweet! If two sentences are two different CEs, you can take the first sentence and not the second. Nice! BigGrin
Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 6:17:02 AM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
"Once per turn, each follower within 6 squares may reroll 1 attack at +4 Attack and +10 Damage. If the result of the rerolled attack is a miss, the attacking character is defeated. "

Sweet! If two sentences are two different CEs, you can take the first sentence and not the second. Nice! BigGrin


I'm pretty certain it won't work that way.
jlbm347
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 6:24:49 AM
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you need to put the whole link in, not click on it. It did the same thing for me. THe whole thing is not a hyperlink just facebook.
eMouse
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 7:24:15 AM
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I fixed the original link in the first post so that it's clickable, as well as included a note about thew new version that's been posted since this thread started.
jedispyder
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 7:24:50 AM
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eMouse wrote:

A new version of the card has been posted to Facebook. LINK

It fixes the wording to what was intended, in addition to the name of the figure.

Also, just to make sure people understand, this is also not a finished card. Obviously you can see how our changes occur, bit by bit as we fix things for QC and Rules until we get a final project. So what we're showing is more along the lines of what our process with the cards is. We're still having huge discussions today, in fact this figure is the one we've put the most work towards trying to get it just right ^_^
TreebeardTheEnt
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 8:19:04 AM
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Instead of Permanent Emplacement maybe add a new ability of Limited Resources 1 (You may only include one of this character in your squad.) This would allow for future use/expansion... Just a thought.

Also, why is the DR of a YV piece ignored by lightsabers?
eMouse
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 8:20:21 AM
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Hopefully someone has suggested splitting up the emplacement and limiting abilities. Perhaps giving it 'Emplacement' with something like 'Territorial - only one of this figure may be part of an squad per map/squad/###points/whatever'. So it would make the new ability more useful in the future.
jedispyder
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 8:43:49 AM
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I wanted to hold off on saying it but figured I might as well put all the discussion to rest: The "Permanent Emplacement" was just a test and never supposed to be shown in a preview. We have already reworked the wording and actually put the restriction in War Coordinator and changed it back to Emplacement.

And Treebeard, from what I've read about them, the Yammosk didn't have anything like Vonduun Crab Armor to make it resistant to lightsabers like the other Vong did. We had originally tossed around some ideas that weren't DR but eventually felt DR1 would be the best to use.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 9:42:41 AM
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jedispyder wrote:
I wanted to hold off on saying it but figured I might as well put all the discussion to rest: The "Permanent Emplacement" was just a test and never supposed to be shown in a preview. We have already reworked the wording and actually put the restriction in War Coordinator and changed it back to Emplacement.


This is a very interesting piece. I like it.

As a rules issue, I think "one per map" has potential for ambiguity in off-beat scenarios. It's fine, of course, for 99.9% of the scenarios you'd run into, but what if you run a scenario with one or 2 tiles added to the side? Do they count as another map? What if you run a match on some version of the 'paper maps' that Christopher West is coming out with, where instead of a standard map you have some number of 8.5x11 sheets put together. Is it allowed in Tile Wars at all? It takes place on tiles - not maps.

I think some rule based on total point cost or distance from other Yammosks would lead to fewer questions for people wanting to incorporate it into non-standard games. Options...

"No ally with War Coordinator may be placed within XX of this character" where XX is a large enough value that you can't fit a second one on a standard map.

"If more than one character with War Coordinator is in your squad, characters with War Coordinator may not constitute more than 10% of the squad's point total." So it would have to be a 300 point match to have a second Yammosk, and 450 for a third.

One advantage of "one per map" is that you can also say the Yammosk only affects the map. For non-standard games, though, I think it would be nice if standard squadbuilding rules could be applied even if the maps/tiles are non-standard. A clear definition of 'map' that takes into account the possibility of tiles, non-standard shapes, etc. could also do the job.
jedispyder
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 9:59:37 AM
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When we make the rules are focusing on normal skirmishes, played on 1 map. We took Mass Battle into mind but left that to be defined in the Rules Glossary and not on the card. Remember, the card only has so much space to work with. So in cases like Mass Battle which uses more than 1 map, you can use more than 1 Yammosk. As for Tile Wars...well, it's not really smart to use a Yammosk in Tile Wars since there are only a few "safe" places to use it and it will be too dangerous to try (you can do it, obviously, but in most cases it will fail as people take AoO to get rid of it right away). All the other scenarios you mentioned are not official game play and we're obviously not in charge of that type of game play, lol.
TreebeardTheEnt
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 10:09:09 AM
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jedispyder wrote:
And Treebeard, from what I've read about them, the Yammosk didn't have anything like Vonduun Crab Armor to make it resistant to lightsabers like the other Vong did. We had originally tossed around some ideas that weren't DR but eventually felt DR1 would be the best to use.


I just read through the Wookieepedia article and found that "the appearance of these animals was a distinctive bulbous head with an array of tentacles. Its only solid bodily structure was its single tooth which was hidden within its boneless flesh. Physically, yammosks resembled huge brains, kept in vats, which trailed thousands of tentacles."

So my new question is where is the DR coming from? The vat?
TreebeardTheEnt
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 10:18:25 AM
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jedispyder wrote:
I wanted to hold off on saying it but figured I might as well put all the discussion to rest: The "Permanent Emplacement" was just a test and never supposed to be shown in a preview. We have already reworked the wording and actually put the restriction in War Coordinator and changed it back to Emplacement.

And Treebeard, from what I've read about them, the Yammosk didn't have anything like Vonduun Crab Armor to make it resistant to lightsabers like the other Vong did. We had originally tossed around some ideas that weren't DR but eventually felt DR1 would be the best to use.
jedispyder
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 10:18:36 AM
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No clue, probably because of it's size? That's something to check with the Designers on. Possibly from the statement on Wookieepedia where it says "Shapers worked on trying to toughen them up" or something to that effect.
tonythetoyman
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 10:30:11 AM
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I don't think every ability has to be 100% based in "reality." I think the strategic reasons for DR10 mentioned above are worthwhile explanations.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 10:31:25 AM
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jedispyder wrote:
When we make the rules are focusing on normal skirmishes, played on 1 map. We took Mass Battle into mind but left that to be defined in the Rules Glossary and not on the card. Remember, the card only has so much space to work with. So in cases like Mass Battle which uses more than 1 map, you can use more than 1 Yammosk. As for Tile Wars...well, it's not really smart to use a Yammosk in Tile Wars since there are only a few "safe" places to use it and it will be too dangerous to try (you can do it, obviously, but in most cases it will fail as people take AoO to get rid of it right away). All the other scenarios you mentioned are not official game play and we're obviously not in charge of that type of game play, lol.


I realize that they're not official. I just think it would be nice to be able to go "off road" but still be able to use standard squadbuilding rules. The game is targeted to the competitive constructed 1-map game, but I think it's a strength that relaxing one rule doesn't require much change to anything else. From standard to removing faction rules - no other rules changes, just a different meta (and things like Affinity become useless). From standard to Tile Wars - no gambit and just a few changes to prevent major abuses (e.g. Override). To Dynamic Duo - minimal changes (e.g. Disintegration). From constructed to booster games - just eliminate Unique.

Going to a non-standard map would normally just require designating the start areas and (if applicable) the gambit zone. With Yammosk's squadbuilding rules, the definition of a map becomes important, which in almost all cases is obvious. I was just pointing out where a question might arise. Of course, with mass battles or non-standard maps there are probably enough other rules modifications that this issue is pretty minor.

For Tile Wars, I assume you could have one and only one in Tile Wars - I was only throwing that out there as an example of where the definition of 'map' might not be clear, even though I think the answer about the squadbuilding rule there seems obvious.
juice man
Posted: Tuesday, November 2, 2010 10:43:19 AM
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I'm getting giddy thinking the Warmaster could actualy do some damage.

63 Warmaster Tsavong Lah
21 Yuuzhan Vong Shaper
19 Yomin Carr
18 Praetorite Vong Priest
15 Yammosk
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