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The Ultimate
Hit Points: 120
Defense: 22
Attack: 13
Damage: 20
Rarity:
Base: Medium
Gender: Male
Creator: jen'ari
Created: 1/23/2018

Special Abilities

  • Unique
  • Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies)
  • Triple Attack (On his turn, this character can make 2 extra attacks instead of moving)
  • Ataru Style (+4 Attack if exactly 1 enemy is within 6 squares)
  • Soresu Style (When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
  • Stealth (If this character has cover, he does not count as the nearest enemy for an attacker farther than 6 squares when choosing targets)

Force Powers

  • Force 3
  • Force Renewal 1 (This character gets 1 Force point each time he activates)
  • Master of the Force 2 (May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn)
  • Knight Speed (Force 1: This character can move 4 extra squares on his turn as part of his move)
  • Force Dash (Force 2, replaces turn: this character may move up to double its speed and make all of its attacks against 1 character.)
  • Force Push 2 (Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 20 damage; push back target 2 squares if Huge or smaller)
  • Lightsaber Defense (Force 1: When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Average Rating: --
AlexTheGreat
1/23/2018 2:17:35 PM

Good idea jen!Obi is my personal favorite! He is quite accurate. You could have costed it a bit higher though. Force Dash is the power you made right?
jen'ari
1/23/2018 2:22:54 PM (Updated: 1/23/2018 3:05:01 PM)

technically deaths_baine made it and I put it on here from memory. what would your cost be? or what should be taken off to keep cost at around 43?
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 2:55:27 PM

whats max damage output? 90 if you dash and include skywalker to give him momentum? no reason for him to cost more at all.
AlexTheGreat
1/23/2018 2:58:08 PM (Updated: 1/23/2018 2:59:07 PM)

I believe that since you have triple attack, 2 lightsaber styles, MOTF 2 , LD and good stats it could be around 50, but that is just my opinion. Cool way to show his progression through lightsaber forms by putting 2 that are not mastered yet though!
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 3:05:18 PM

yeah the problem is that you have shooters that dominate and everytime a good melee piece comes along the cry is its to good its too good. they are at a disadvantage and should be better on paper.
AlexTheGreat
1/23/2018 3:28:27 PM (Updated: 1/23/2018 3:29:47 PM)

Look I'm a huge fan of melee pieces and I would be really glad if they dominated the game, but unfortunately this doesn't happen. Now, since I only play WOTC pieces my judgement on costing is more or less according to the pieces made by the company. Now if a melee piece is a good piece I don't believe that it should be costed as a disadvantaged piece which means less than a good shooter of the same capability but as a piece of the same value.
AlexTheGreat
1/23/2018 3:29:03 PM

As far as the cost of this piece goes I can give you an example. Take Shaak Ti JM which I believe is one of the best melee and right costed pieces in the game and compare it to jen'ari's obi wan. Any similarities???
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 3:33:15 PM (Updated: 1/23/2018 3:33:38 PM)

compare it to... I don't know.... dash rendar. build a squad with this obi and see what fits in the squad then build the best squad you can without him and see which squad is better.
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 3:34:48 PM

that shaak ti... is an ok piece, but its not going to rip through tournaments and stuff, even in all wotc.
AlexTheGreat
1/23/2018 3:55:29 PM

I could compare this obi to dash but only as a key player of the squad. Their use is different IMO and so their stats and abilities.
jen'ari
1/23/2018 4:06:57 PM (Updated: 1/23/2018 4:09:43 PM)

the problem is that if you think Shaak-ti cost 47 is a great costed piece than it is not playable. Shaak-ti JM even in WOTCdays was barely playable and not tier 1. The other problem is that Nonmelee have tons of movement options that make in nigh impossible for melee to get into the action without support, being a super tank or super fast. but most super fast pieces die really fast too or deal little damage for their cost (62 point Revan)
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 4:07:06 PM

of course they are but this is a squad based game. looking at individual stats is legitimately useless. its ALL about how it functions in a squad. so build the best squad you can with this Obi and compare it to the best available republic squad in WoTc I bet you wouldn't even use this Obi because he doesn't fit.
jen'ari
1/23/2018 4:07:41 PM (Updated: 1/23/2018 4:08:35 PM)

I think the cost is about right (in today's game) for a power 8-9 piece.
AlexTheGreat
1/23/2018 4:59:12 PM

Guys relax. I just said that it could cost a little higher, that's all. I didn't say 60 nor 70, just a few points. It's fine by me if it costs 43, I just said my opinion. When I said around 50 I didn't meant plus 50. It could be 47-48. It's not that much of a difference ...
jen'ari
1/23/2018 5:39:17 PM (Updated: 1/23/2018 5:39:21 PM)

i am just throwing out my thoughts on how to make a powerful piece cost the right amount. at 47-48 I think it is a power 7-8 piece.
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 6:21:46 PM

I am just throwing out my opinion about how people are wrong when it comes to power levels, etc.
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 6:22:41 PM

;)
surf_rider56
1/23/2018 6:41:13 PM

Base stats, + Unique/Melee/Triple/Force 3 = 32 .... Ataru/Soresu/Stealth = 42 .... Renewal/MOTF = 50 ... Speed/Dash/PushLtS D = 62. Its not that any one thing is "Expensive" but its the fact you have 10 SA's & FP's ... every 3-4 abilities it jumps exponentially ... so you've got two "Jumps' which add up and your base is reasonably hefty ......
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 6:50:13 PM

^^^^^^^^HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 7:15:24 PM

Please do that to the vset pieces lol
jen'ari
1/23/2018 7:15:52 PM

@surf_rider I think you are kind of mistaken about your jumps in cost type thing. I do not think it puts into account the power of the abilities. For instance if you drop Sweep, Quick Reactions, and Loner from Ganner would he need a significant price drop? absolutely not, he would still be a power 10 piece at 29. In no era should this piece cost 62, it would need a stat boost in attack and HP.
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 7:33:09 PM

as I have challenged people build the best squad you can without him, and then the best squad you can with him and see which one is better... it is that simple lol.
surf_rider56
1/23/2018 7:36:32 PM

Actually, there IS an exponential jump. Donnyrides and I worked on a cost calculator and every 4 abilities you add or so, there's an increase. Does it take into account What abilities? No, but you're also assuming the V-Set pieces are all "fairly" costed and lets be honest, many aren't. Assuming you're talking 29 pt Ganner, I'd cost him at 34; the calc is very accurate +/- 5. Taking out your three abilities drops him to 25, drop Push he's 22. 8 points in ability yet a drop of 13 in price. Add 1 ability to his original at a 1 pt cost he jumps 3 pts in price.
surf_rider56
1/23/2018 7:40:20 PM

Now if you think the V-Sets Aren't aggressively costed that's another discussion entirely. GWOK has 2 less abilities (but Double not Triple) 1 more Attack and a CE. He's costed at 55. So, with Triple, an extra Lightsaber ability style and Dash how is This piece 12 points lower? Even if the Triple And Ataru cancels out the CE, the Dash as a movement breaker and Stealth = Mettle?
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 7:48:18 PM

uhhh he has soresu MASTERY and mettle and motf 2
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 7:49:18 PM (Updated: 1/23/2018 8:05:37 PM)

if you ever had a piece cost 22 with levitation force renewal and his hit points you are an idiot... plain and simple
jen'ari
1/23/2018 7:49:19 PM

Soresu mastery, mof 2, mettle. .. that's why and his ce is incredible.... Very high power in those combinations
jen'ari
1/23/2018 7:50:12 PM

Well I guess I was slower..
surf_rider56
1/23/2018 8:12:25 PM

But not 20 pts more incredible .....
jen'ari
1/23/2018 8:12:57 PM

to answer your question "Do I think vsets are not aggressively costed" no I don't. I think they mess up entirely. some pieces are power 10 and 11's and others come out as 6 and 7's and than those that, on first glance, look like 9s usually turn out to be 7s. Darth Plageuis is a HUGE example of this. everyone thought it was so fantastic but came out as a power 7-8 piece. i think the last 2 sets have created a few true power 9 pieces which is refreshing. The art of the power 9 piece needs to be returned. Like Dash Rendar was in WOTC time.
CorellianComedian
1/23/2018 8:55:06 PM

If I may throw my hat in the ring, I'd say 43 is definitely "aggressively costed," but the v-set Quinlan Vos has a good chance of beating him one-on-one, and is only 4 points less.
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 9:12:17 PM

of course you may, but aggressively costed relative to? similar pieces and stats or in a squad? I don't understand why people wont just build the best squad they can with this guy and then say what tier they think it would be.
jen'ari
1/23/2018 9:20:32 PM (Updated: 1/23/2018 9:23:01 PM)

Cin drallig, obi-wan, Serra keto, r2 that's exactly 130 which is a fantastic base build. 70 left. Could go a few different routes but I would probably go gen sky for 177 and having 23 left. Mas amedda 15 left. 2uggies 9 left. Just throw filler. This should be close to a tier 1 squad
jen'ari
1/23/2018 9:24:28 PM

90 damage from Potentially 28 squares. This piece can grab makashi as well from cin as well.
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 9:41:14 PM

cool is it better then something like this? --Jango's Family's Cin-- 48 Cin Drallig, Jedi Battlemaster 30 Serra Keto 26 Elite Republic Commando - Boss 25 Elite Republic Commando - Fixer 25 Elite Republic Commando - Scorch 25 Elite Republic Commando - Sev 9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid 5 Rodian Diplomat 10 Spaarti Clone Trooper Demolitionist x2 3 Mouse Droid (206pts. 11 activations)
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 9:41:51 PM

because I believe that the combo of all these commando wins this matchup and wins against more then what the squad you posted does
jen'ari
1/23/2018 10:10:01 PM

hmmm... tough call. Gensky might be pulling me down a bit, but I think my squad could pull it out. I can tow and dash and possibly kill any Commando or R2. I would have to be very aggressive. that would be a fun game but i think you have a few more tricks in yours.
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 10:12:11 PM

they have shields and diplomat I doubt you can rush in and kill one
jen'ari
1/23/2018 10:23:50 PM

Who gives commandos diplomat?
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 10:27:20 PM

no, he has a diplomat to place in front of your force dash to keep you from taking a straight line there and then they have shields.
jen'ari
1/23/2018 10:30:04 PM

This is intriguing. But I would kill someone. You have to make all three shields saves to live. Because I am hitting all three!
Deaths_Baine
1/23/2018 10:53:48 PM

All about placement
shmi15
1/24/2018 4:36:14 PM

Are you representing the exact moment? As in the battle between him and Maul? If so, Force Dash would need to go, because he never did "Dash" in that scene. He did, however Force Leap! I guess it just depends on which part your actually basing it on to which abilities he should have in it. I thought I read that this was his transmission after Qui-Gon died in TPM, but I may be mistake?
jen'ari
1/24/2018 4:43:58 PM

yes, this would be Obi-Wan Kenobi post Qui-Gonn while muddling over, training, and using Soresu. This is my in between styles Obi-Wan. We have seen him Force Speed though and we have seen him use Triple Attack, so Force Dash is just saying that he uses the speed to go so fast he can still triple in the same turn.
shmi15
1/24/2018 4:52:30 PM

I was asking if this was the actual fight scene between him and Darth Maul in TPM. Or if its Post-TPM altogether, and is just something you created? Is it between Episodes 1/2 or Episodes 2/3?
jen'ari
1/26/2018 3:55:23 AM

sorry did not see this. Yes this would be post TPM. I thought the above kind of answered that since he would not have time in TPM to train after Qui-Gon died.... Yes, this is my "how Obi-Wan might look while transitioning styles" look. The cool thing is that he never fully loses his Ataru as seen in his duel with Anakin in Revenge of the Sith.
General_Grievous
1/28/2018 3:24:10 PM

I think this guy is good, a bit ability heavy but I think he should definitely cost quite a bit more, closer to 60s. Especially being a super movement breaking faction already, this guy eliminates almost any non-beatstick commander on the board in one turn.
jen'ari
1/28/2018 6:53:55 PM

Which might shift the meta. But as deathsbaine said there are other republic builds just as good without him so he is not going to be an auto include. If others feel it necessary for him not to get another lightsaber style from cin cost him at 48 and make his hp 130
Deaths_Baine
1/29/2018 9:48:19 AM

don't give in bro, stay in the light, I know the dark can be hard to fight at times. Remember Obi never caved, this guy is fine, they can't make a good claim as to why he needs to cost more outside of he has a lot of abilities no proof that in a squad he is an auto include, even in WotC timeframe he wouldn't be an auto include.
jen'ari
1/29/2018 11:45:42 AM

Ya, I agree. I think he is fine as well. As pointed out Quinlan is just as good or better. I think they feel that the speed mechanic is dangerous in a faction with Booming, tow cable, and swap... Which is a fair point. But the fact that his only damage boost comes from paying 47 to get gen sky is hard to get around since that piece is hard to play with. Reason I say 48 is because it might help people move away from Cin Drallig as an auto include in any Republic jedi build.
Deaths_Baine
1/29/2018 1:36:50 PM

that's not the issue with your piece, that's a cin crallig issue that will come into play all the time anyways. everyone is afraid of speed... except for in the factions with act control LOL
Deaths_Baine
1/29/2018 1:37:29 PM

hey... you have act control... well, heres full board swap... or levitation... or vehicle.... or anything else... oh wait... transfer essence lol.
jen'ari
1/29/2018 1:57:36 PM

hahaha I know bro. The range, swap, movement is always on LAME stuff like Galloping Attack swap... hahaha at least this is fun. Levitate Mara Jade was respectable as well in the old days, she was assaulting and you did it while using Cunning Attack to boot.
Deaths_Baine
1/29/2018 2:05:55 PM

ooohhhh no you can run in and do a possible 90 if you don't have disruptive, or a bodyguard, or so many other things... its to much.... as they swap in cad bane SHOOT for 120 with a higher attack, then auto win init and either shoot for 80 more or fly/swap away.... lol.
jen'ari
1/29/2018 2:59:35 PM

the fear of new power is sad. The reason why the fear is there is because of set 1 (to a small extent) and set 6 and a few other absurdly powerful pieces. But that should not deter new Power 9.5-10.5 pieces. We NEED strong pieces to open squad design. This piece will just be a very strong piece. Should be fine in today's meta. For instance OR would play very well against this piece.
General_Grievous
1/29/2018 3:21:17 PM (Updated: 1/29/2018 4:08:57 PM)

Jen'ari and Deaths love and respect for everyone bros. Having different opinions doesn't make other people's invalid, sad or dark side (well unless there is cookies and force lighting than sign me up for being the bad guy haha). For me this cost bump comes down to three things: comparing to other deep-strike characters, example Darth Revan, Sith Lord. Revan costs 19 points more and has a max damage out out of 60 damage at range 12 or 30 damage at range 18, before mods and boosts
General_Grievous
1/29/2018 3:25:59 PM

Obi can move 16 squares and deal 60, before mods. So already better striker there. Defensively Revan has just Lightsaber Defense. Obi has Stealth, Soresu, and LD. And in addition Obi has a direct damage close ranged push option, while Revan does not. Revan has a strong CE and Master Tactician to help bring his power up but even than Obi totally outclassed Revan at a 2/3 of the cost. And what's more, Revan is a power 10 Sith piece. Which means I think Obi should be costed a lost closer to high 50s or lows 60s at least by comparison.
General_Grievous
1/29/2018 3:29:37 PM (Updated: 1/29/2018 4:09:46 PM)

If you want to look at a similar piece in the Republic's own faction: Yaddle. Yaddle is one point more expensive. Can deal 40 damage at range 12 and while Shien > Soresu, Yaddle has no other defensive abilities. Yaddle does have a decent but situational CE and Sacrafice which people have commented on my asajj and correctly said would be rarely used on a higher cost character. Yaddle is considered to be a power 8 piece and as such with Obi being a far better massive damage deep-striker he should be costed higher.
General_Grievous
1/29/2018 3:35:31 PM (Updated: 1/29/2018 4:10:17 PM)

Next thing: faction interactions, as is the Republic already has some crazy movement breaking with R2 and Panaka, and that has to be considered whenever any new Republic piece comes out. As opposed to the Sith where Revan is one of two movement breakers and if you bring him with Sideous/Wyyrlok he has a maximum striking range of 30 squares post swap. And that combo cost you 77 points + swap fodder. In the Republic R2/Mas/Panaka give this Obi a maximum striking distance of 40 squares, which is basically the board. And the combo costs 40 points + swap fodder. So more distance/cheaper cost.
General_Grievous
1/29/2018 3:43:48 PM

Which brings me to my final point, risk of creating NPEs. While we all have different NPEs, we always have to look at a new powerful piece and ask if this will break anything to strongly and wreck the game for other players. Revan as is played without Sideous is borderline NPE with his ability to potentially charge past and hit any part of your squad, but it's also limited by not having flight so you can potentially get in an AoO if he moves past you. But with Obi and R2, no part of your squad is safe.
General_Grievous
1/29/2018 3:44:36 PM

For 9 points R2 tows Obi over any wall, any beatstick, all of ones squad and can systematically eliminate pretty much any non-beatstick commander in one unpreventable move. And then Stealth+Soresu+LD will keep Obi alive. I think that's why the designers have shied away from granting the Republic a big deep strike hitter, because of how much it dominates weaker commanders. And game experience for other players is a big thing for me when designing even custom pieces as what me make can and has influenced new pieces added to our beloved game.
General_Grievous
1/29/2018 3:45:39 PM

Anyways hope that helps clarify and it's still a neat piece but I think that's where we're coming from with our thoughts. You don't have to like them but please keep it respectful and brotherly in disagreement. Strength and honor and keep designing.
jen'ari
1/29/2018 4:01:01 PM

Thank you for clarification but I will just say that Revan comparison is kind of obsolete since Revan is obsolete these days... If Revan costed 54 he would probably be more competitive in today's world. But the reason why Revan is higher is because of Master tactician and his CE. he has built in swap and can go first and drop 60 from 12 squares. Ya, this piece does kill commanders, just like when Obi-Wan. Getting to the commander is kind of his thing. This is only an NPE to people who want commanders sitting in their back field and not wanting them to be killed.
jen'ari
1/29/2018 4:02:09 PM

For those pieces that need to stay alive but are weak (think Nute Gunray in TPM) they should have ways to stall enemies. I mean Nute Gunray shut the blast doors and than called for Destroyer droids (or droidekas I forget what he said but its the same thing). They should have ways to stall, but I mean c'mon, if they come face to face to Obi-Wan they should die.
Deaths_Baine
1/29/2018 4:04:45 PM

ummmmm I am so confused what factions lets their commanders get killed by this piece?
jen'ari
1/29/2018 4:07:56 PM

ozzel, dodonna, san hill, Mon Mothma, bib fortuna
Deaths_Baine
1/29/2018 4:33:35 PM (Updated: 1/29/2018 4:34:03 PM)

yeah... if you competitively let this piece get to them and kill them you suck and should stop playing the game.
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