Engineer Battle Droid

Hit Points:	10
Defense:	9
Attack:	0
Damage:	10

swinefeld
2/8/2018 4:49:45 AM

Wow. That's a huge boost. (pun intended) No specific suggestions yet.

General_Grievous
2/8/2018 6:12:13 AM

Hahaha thanks I think it might finally be enough to help them against their trouble enemies, Tann assists with super stealth, haor chall helps with mobility, Passel for surviveability and mobility, and here they can actually do something against the everyone and their dog that has Mobile/GMA these days and super thematic for huge sentry guns.

General_Grievous
2/8/2018 6:12:37 AM

And with dual weapon they could take a shot then go into overwatch

swinefeld
2/8/2018 6:27:13 AM

Thoughts...TU could be quite significant (not that they don't need it, but...). Minimally, think it should be 'within range' which means counting squares (doors open, mice, etc). I'll let surf address costing in detail, but Dual Weapon is no joke, so if this highly valuable target can sit in the back row, seems closer to 16 then the median. But I dig it. ;) Also, some of what you have going on here might better belong on a Dwarf Spider/(huge) Homing Spider ability combo. :D

swinefeld
2/8/2018 6:29:43 AM

But yeah, shoot anything that moves :D

shmi15
2/8/2018 1:16:20 PM

My biggest issue is its 8 points, board wide, and if you throw Worm in there, your getting Twin attack on anyone. Is the definition after for Dual Weapon Use or Overwatch? I'm not sure what ability is what as I've never heard of them before. But, for me, this seems like a bit much for Seps.

surf_rider56
2/8/2018 3:24:52 PM

Dual Weapons hasn't been used much. Droid Enforcer has it and the new Theron; lots of love from what I read for the Enforcer but it has so much going for it I'm not sure how much belongs to DW. Cost-wise he's a -2 as just a Melee/Droid with those stats, so costing it at 8 suggests its highly valued as such. This might be a jen'ari piece in that its cost is far below its actual value. Never played against DW so not sure how indeed devastating it could be. Better players than I should address that.

General_Grievous
2/8/2018 3:53:49 PM

All valid points, except we are perhaps missing how terrible Huges are and they need something thematically strong to put them on the map. I could just drop the dual Weapon part if that's the main issue? Or bump up the cost, but Huges already have enough pricey Commanders that I was trying to give them something cheaper.

General_Grievous
2/8/2018 3:56:03 PM

Edit: dropped the dual weapon portion

surf_rider56
2/8/2018 4:00:32 PM

... ah, but it looked So fun With DW. Do you really want to be That hasty getting rid of it? Last I looked no one in particular had died and made Me President of the Universe; well they forgot to tell me if they did.

shmi15
2/8/2018 11:18:35 PM

cheapest droid is 32 points that benefits from this. And, as of now, you can get that droid to 13/17 attack boardwide with twin... So explain to me what any Melee squad does to something that they can't even get close to? If you spam the 32 point droids 3 times, you can take 6 shots at 17/30 with twin... So.... Thats my reasoning for it being way to much going on. From an 8 point droid.

General_Grievous
2/9/2018 1:35:10 AM

Shmi I would like to see that squad, and then further to actually see you do well with it. Huges are actually really really hard to play even remotely competitive. That's your entire team built up to give three awkwardly massive characters a fighting chance and a free Twin each. There is that whole bit about Bastilla/disruption basically kicking the dead horse and shutting down everything. Plus these days Melee has super Vondum crab Armor, everyone has evade/soresu (with ranged combat expert) or free/cheap Lightsaber Defence.

General_Grievous
2/9/2018 1:37:54 AM

When you're making a grand total of 6 attacks with your entire team that's barely a boosted Cad Bane, which you could still get for under 100 points. I think comparing Huges to normal pieces for power comparison has been part of the problem of them not being effectively boosted since the dawn of the game. Maps and their size are their own worst enemy and has been part of the reason they are so overcosted and unplayable.

General_Grievous
2/9/2018 1:40:14 AM

You can read the stats on a Huge like the NR-99, Fire-spitter, Leviathan, AT-ST Blizzard one or even ChewT-ST but trust me from extensive experience it is nigh impossible to actually use these things short of taking a new approach entirely to them which is what this guy is trying to do. Cheap enough to be fit in a squad with the pricey Commanders and even pricier huges (that 32 point one you listed especially sucks haha) and gives them a tool to prevent the standard scenery of Mace Critdu, Bane, Vader, Luke, etc... basing and wiping out a huge in a single turn.

General_Grievous
2/9/2018 1:42:45 AM

If the Twin is really the issue here I could bring back dual weapon use (because president of the universe and customs master Surf has allowed it) and then put in a caveat about them losing Twin for the shot. Though then it's only three measly costly shots against the super unkillable jedi from the poor ovselge huge.

shmi15
2/9/2018 1:59:57 AM

http://www.bloomilk.com/Squad/184858/engineer-droid

shmi15
2/9/2018 2:02:48 AM

You don't even attack with the droids on your turn, the 6 attacks I am referring to, are the Dual Weapon Use on the opponents turn. Example. I set up my 3 droids in spots where they have a long range of squares they can see, the moment my enemy enters that square, bam, I shoot him 6 times, twice by each guy with a 17 attack for 30 damage in this squad. You can drop Grievous, and go Whorm and more activation's also, if you want to more competitive.

shmi15
2/9/2018 2:03:48 AM

If you don't think 6 attacks when I am trying to base you with a guy is to much, then we don't even need to have this discussion, lol. It is just my opinion, but there is a difference between making it hard to base, and making it a suicide mission to base.

General_Grievous
2/9/2018 2:19:28 AM (Updated: 2/9/2018 2:29:40 AM)

Few problems with that squad though: Bastilla/Disruptive completely shuts it down, its subject to being out-activated, most melee characters can deflect/Defense/soresu/double vong crab those and the final kicker? Which maps on the restricted map list would you bring them on? On an open blank map for sure, but over three quarters of the maps in this game Huges can't even get to gambit, let alone set up a sweet fire lane.

General_Grievous
2/9/2018 2:22:34 AM

I also think there's a ton of presednecs with all of the Jedi that have Force-Attuned Reflexes (Dooku twins for 60 when someone comes adjacent, and his can't be shut down and you still have half of your squad to build in supports for him) or cheap suicide shot mothma squads popping when they die in droves, or the classic Minefield Nom Bombs. The difference is all of those teams don't share the huge curse.

General_Grievous
2/9/2018 2:25:25 AM

Anyways agree to disagree and I respect that you see it differently. I'm just curious if you have any ideas of a more effective boost to Huges that could actually make them thematic/playable? There have been many attempts to bring them up to good, and we keep ending up with mediocre costly Huges, easily cancelable CEs, and even the cheaper boosts start to run up the costs when squad-building around the expensive beasts. I've been trying for years to make Huges competitive and haven't had much success, at least not in Seps so far.

kobayashimaru
2/9/2018 5:15:30 AM

this'll go great with 'Staggered Activation" redo for huges and all, so, a number of Droids have like 4 or 5 acts. I can use a move and attack token, then, with a remaining attack token, put them into overwatch for 8 points... I'm thinking Sentry Upgrade needs to be replaces turn etc, to limit how many can have it, otherwise it'd cost ~35points for that ability given the meta-abuse combos hehe.

General_Grievous
2/9/2018 5:47:46 AM

That's a good idea Koba, replaces turn I could work with

AlexTheGreat
2/9/2018 10:38:15 PM

I like it! It's a really clever idea! I'm not sure but perhaps replaces turn might be more appropriate, but anyway you know better GG! Huge boost for the seps though!

General_Grievous
2/9/2018 11:25:52 PM

Hahaha no pun intended right? And thanks

shmi15
2/10/2018 1:48:39 AM

Yes Think of how annoying Force Attuned Reflexes are... and now extend that from adjacent to within sight. And instead of it being a unique character with 1 square, its a non unique with 8 squares. Yes, maps do hurt Huges, but givening them a Machine gun like ability, I don't think is an answer. With this guy, all of a sudden you can no longer create any cheap huges, or give them any rapport to make them cheaper. Why wouldn't handing Huges Shields 1 or 2 be better?

swinefeld
2/10/2018 3:30:41 AM

Trying to parse the arguments here, so thinking out loud... the Huges give up what they could normally do on their turn from where they sit, to move, losing what they could normally do after moving, to get a one-time movement-responding attack (likely a Twin) at any later point in the round. Am I on track with the intent?

General_Grievous
2/10/2018 6:10:45 PM

Yes essentially Swine, though just changed it so the Huges have to replace their turn to guard against a rapid more mobile enemy. And Shmi force-attuned reflexes is for every single time an enemy moves where this is just one, and to pimp put that attacks it's very costly. But anyways changes to replaces turn and no need for dual weapon use. I think the shields route has been tried and it helps but it's not enough to make them competitive.

swinefeld
2/10/2018 8:23:01 PM

Overwatch might need something about ignoring cover or targeting rules. Otherwise, this guy seems good to go.

shmi15
2/11/2018 4:28:54 AM

OHHHHHH. I honestly did not see it replaced turn :( I feel like a complete idiot. I apologize for that. Sometimes I am a skimmer. Ignore everything I said prior to this, and I agree, this is a good piece :( Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part!

General_Grievous
2/11/2018 4:46:13 AM

All good Shmi it didn't initially and you and others helped tone down my bias hahaha thanks! And Swine updated for ignoring cover

swinefeld
2/11/2018 5:40:28 AM

Oh, snap!, GG. An adjacent enemy uggie would prevent it from attacking with Overwatch. Since it's only Huge droids, operating on auto-programming, it should ignore targeting rules. But you could add Sniper to SU if you wanted to. ;) might need a small cost bump, but given the limitations, 'aggressive' costing seems fair. :D

General_Grievous
2/11/2018 10:46:49 AM

Valid point Swine I'll update it!

Oakel
11/15/2018 7:33:17 PM

Just found this entry. Not only do I love the crafting behind it, but also the XCOM reference!

General_Grievous
11/15/2018 7:46:41 PM

Thanks Oakel! You caught me, massive XCOM fan here too haha. And thematically it fits the big behemoth sentries to give them Overwatch

Has taught you well.

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