Veteran Imperial/Republic Commander

Hit Points:	50
Defense:	15
Attack:	6
Damage:	10

jen'ari
2/23/2018 2:19:53 AM

why does VI not activate the person? it is powerful even to let them go first when they lose initiative.

surf_rider56
2/23/2018 2:25:27 AM (Updated: 2/23/2018 3:43:33 AM)

I've got him at 19-20 right now ; Base is 11. The CE is at least 3, Everything else probably around 2 each. Regarding VI, if he's activated before anybody else can he move or shoot because "character isnt considered activated after this occurs?"

swinefeld
2/23/2018 3:20:23 AM

Assuming I have your meaning correct, CE should be more like: "Allies lose Heavy Weapon. Allies with Mounted Weapon or Machinery get +4 Speed and gain Stable Footing." Ends when there are none of these guys alive. Is that the correct intent?

General_Grievous
2/23/2018 3:28:45 AM

Defining Losing initiative is tricky, are we talking straight numbers? Thrawn? If you are going first or second? Rerolls? For simplicity I would make it:

General_Grievous
2/23/2018 3:38:04 AM (Updated: 2/23/2018 3:38:38 AM)

Veteran Instincts: Once per round, after initiative is determined, if your final result is lower than your opponents, you can choose one character with Machinery or Mounted Weapon within 6 squares. This character can take an immediate turn which does not count as one of your activations.

General_Grievous
2/23/2018 3:39:06 AM

And I think it's more than fair to give a terrible piece a 50/50 chance of taking a free turn

shmi15
2/23/2018 4:29:26 AM

Very interesting character... Will look at it more tomorrow when I am thinkng straight

swinefeld
2/23/2018 5:25:58 AM

Mostly agree with GG about VI. Kinda like a Flow-Walking turn. Blizzard Scout 1 gives me pause, but I'm just thinking cautiously at the moment.

Lord_Ball
2/23/2018 1:22:33 PM

VI definitely needs a bit of wording work. Instead of said characters it should read "the chosen character" and since you don't want to activate it you should just have it "takes an immediate turn". Not sure I like that ability on a non-U though.

blemelisk
2/23/2018 3:10:03 PM

Reading comments liking the suggestions, could make VI for non unique only and it would still do exactly what I want and it be still effective

blemelisk
2/23/2018 9:15:48 PM

Swine, you are correct, if he dies, then the CE is no longer in effect, so Heavy Weapon is back, those units loose Stable Footing etc.

blemelisk
2/23/2018 9:24:34 PM

Changes made, this is the final vision of this piece, but am open to suggestions. Is this too much? (Rapport). I feel him being in Republic/imperial squads is fine. Both factions could use Mounted Weapon (which are mostly huge pieces) love. (any faction could actually). For VI do you feel i should limit it to non unique pieces only? (there is only 1 that I can think of between the 2 factions that is Unique and has mounted weapon)

blemelisk
2/23/2018 9:27:52 PM

Lastly I added Machinery to these abilities to help cover more vehicles (and any other huge pieces), however looking in the DB looks like none are vehicles, is there any other key word i might be able to use? I dont want to use "huge" as i dont want a Reek, or Obi on Boga to benefit (as it isnt thematic to what im going for). But speeders would be a logical add.

gandalfthegreatestwizard
2/23/2018 9:38:31 PM (Updated: 2/23/2018 9:45:38 PM)

Is Combined Arms actually useful in Republic and Imperials, the Mas Amedda factions? The only CEs I could see it helping with are Snoke's FR (rival with Mas) and HoloVeers (not 6 squares). But Mouse Droids are still a better choice IMO. And why does this Mounted Weapon- boosting Commander take Heavy Weapon away from allies? The only MW with HW is Rebel, so it seems like he has two different angles. He'd probably make Spacetroopers, Heavy Clone Troopers and other Heavy Weapon characters fairly good- is that something the game needs?

gandalfthegreatestwizard
2/23/2018 9:50:24 PM (Updated: 2/23/2018 9:59:18 PM)

Also- some MW characters that are already quite good or at least decent could become powerful with this guy. An Uggernaught with Accurate from Veers, Cunning from Jabba CL and +3 +3 from Thrawn would work very well with this guy, moving 20 then shooting everything before anyone else can activate if you roll lower (which happens about 50% of the time). Then, since you have GA Thrawn in your squad, you probably won init anyway so the Uggernaught does another Furious Assault.

blemelisk
2/23/2018 11:26:13 PM

The purpose of this character is to have MW characters (usually huge) and troopers moving up the map together and both getting bonuses. HW troopers get to now move and fire, MW characters have and easier time moving up with said troopers thus being a more combined arms force. Mas is a great piece, but he only does one thing, and that is effect CE range. THis guy does that and more for your squad. I might also make it so if you roll lower (AND LOSE) you may ....

blemelisk
2/23/2018 11:32:27 PM

YOu also state that some of those MW characters are already good, but how often do you see them being played competitively? (honest question, as everything that I have read on this site says they arnt that competitive), and yes, having HW characters "fairly good" seems like a great idea for the game, unless you think it is best to have pieces less than "fairly good" is healthy for the game? Could it make them "too good" with certain combination? Likely, but then that never stopped some pieces from being made in the past that when combine because top tier in competition.

blemelisk
2/23/2018 11:33:47 PM

This character is just my idea to boost 2 classes of pieces that might not see much play otherwise (maybe?) and thematically combine them in a logical manner while making them more competitive/fun. All part of the CCC

gandalfthegreatestwizard
2/24/2018 12:20:45 AM (Updated: 2/24/2018 12:22:52 AM)

I was only posing questions for discussion, not trying to argue that this guy would break the game. I do think that the Vsets have left HW alone for good reason, though. It's hard to calculate how much of an effect HW guys would have on the meta w/out HW. Also, the Vsets have added a few characters who are balanced already and have HW, as well as trying to balance some old HW guys- and this could push one or two of those over the edge into imbalance.

gandalfthegreatestwizard
2/24/2018 12:21:12 AM (Updated: 2/24/2018 12:23:36 AM)

Plus, this solution to it seems really unthematic. Is the Commander telling them to leave their Heavy Weapons and fight with smaller ones? Why do they still have the same stats then? Are they mounting their weapons on one of the MWs? Why do they still lose it when not adjacent to a MW then? Is his inspiring presence making their arms stronger?

blemelisk
2/24/2018 4:27:45 AM

He is inspiring them to carry what normally would be a crewed weapon and carrying it and using it as if it wasnt (look up To Hell and Back with Audy Murphy), something like a modern M60, or better yet a Browning M1919A4. Though yes, it would be woefully difficult for a single soldier to carry and use an M2, it is possible (though the accuracy could come into question etc) for the BAR, M60 and Browning M1919A4. Though we see it occur in movies and in dire situation on an actual battlefield it might actually happen, but under normal circumstances it wouldnt.

blemelisk
2/24/2018 4:30:27 AM

The weapons mentioned would be considered heavy weapons, and are usually crew served (2 man crew more often than not, except maybe the BAR). As such they wouldnt be used on a patrol or on the move unless attached to some type of mobile fighting platform. But this character is inspiring his troops to pick those weapons up and use them much as we have seen in movies. To me, this is very much thematic.

gandalfthegreatestwizard
2/24/2018 5:07:45 AM

Most of the characters with Heavy Weapons are not using weapons that would normally require a crew (hence why they are medium base and the mini is just one guy). They are simply weapons that need some sort of setting up or are so heavy that they take a while to drag along.

gandalfthegreatestwizard
2/24/2018 5:08:43 AM

It doesn't make sense that the he's inspiring them to carry a crewed weapon as if it were normal- because it isn't a crewed weapon. Also, the restriction of HW itself is super thematic on characters like the E-Web, as we see in the movies (not random action movies, legit Star Wars) that it takes time to set these weapons up.

gandalfthegreatestwizard
2/24/2018 5:10:04 AM

Vader himself couldn't inspire the Snowtroopers to set the E-Web up fast enough; is it thematic for this guy to do it?

swinefeld
2/24/2018 5:44:32 AM (Updated: 2/24/2018 5:45:06 AM)

Nobody plays pieces with Heavy Weapon. If something is broken there, pretty sure it won't be WotC's fault. It's not like your CE is giving Gotal Fringers [Use the Force]. You might specify Medium or smaller to be safe, haven't looked that hard. Outside of that, the focus on Mounted Weapons I like as well. :)

TheHutts
2/24/2018 6:22:01 AM

Spacetroopers are pretty good.

gandalfthegreatestwizard
2/24/2018 6:53:47 AM

"Nobody plays pieces with Heavy Weapon." Tell that to my second place at LowerHuttaCon with BX Commandos... :P

swinefeld
2/24/2018 7:12:23 AM

Spacetroopers are good, for sure. I was on QC when they were made. Re: Heavy Weapon, "If something is broken there, pretty sure it won't be WotC's fault." :)

blemelisk
2/24/2018 11:50:42 PM

uh oh, wait, there are more than just the troopers that have heavy weapon? (going to look now)

blemelisk
2/24/2018 11:53:39 PM

Those with Heavy repeaters are purposefully included with this. I thought there could be some other huge or other non trooper pieces that might have heavy weapon (i did see one droid with it)....(after all, they have trip attack and wont be able to use trip attack after moving unless they can somehow get greater mobile attack.

blemelisk
2/25/2018 12:03:00 AM

if they can get GMA please let me know. I will have it so that those with Heavy Weapon lose it and gain a new ability (Inspired Advance: This character can move 6 squares and make an attack, but can not gain Greater Mobile Attack).

gandalfthegreatestwizard
2/25/2018 2:23:29 AM

No HW characters with Triple except the Hoth Trooper with Repeating Blaster Cannon, who doesn't have access to this guy, so no worries there.

Bluer than a Rutian Twi'lek on a cold day.

Special Abilities

Commander Effect