Shinja.....the new look is awsome. I think the ratings can stay now because it will take a lot more effort to get a squad to show up as number one. I feel for you with all this fighting back and forth on the issue, but for what it is worth, you are doing a great job dealing with it. I love the changes you made!! Keep up the good work.

There is still a problem with good squads that have received excessive 1s. I am not sure, but I think Speedy Cannon might just have the most ones on the site at 28 currently.

One "dream" solution is using an algorithm to highlight inappropriate rating actions. For example, it could be coded to alert Shinja when a squad with an average rating of say 8.2 and a minimum of 20 votes, receives a one vote. He could then go in, see exactly who did it. Then you track which users are consistently voting outliers and remove them from the site at a threshhold level.

It could even be simple, like a person with more than 30% 1 ratings is put on warning (obviously some minimum of 20-50 votes would need to be in place), and with now improvement, is banned, and all ratings by that person are removed. It could be more complex as well, to also include 2 and 3 votes, to prevent the smart guy in the future from spamming 2s instead of 1s.

Personally, there are very good reasons to vote a squad a 1, and I don't want the option removed. I will always use whatever the lowest number available is, just as I will use the highest when I deem it appropriate. I do not like Shoebox's rating system at all, its completely useless and much more abusable than this one. If anything, people simply need to take it less seriously, and not worry so much about it.

I think Aaron, you best bet is to program an algorith to alert you to certain identyfiable behaviors, and require registration with a legitimate email. I would also suggest setting up IP banning as well, to remove repeat offenders.

And I honestly don't think, one person made 28 accounts to vote SC a 1. I think several of those, are for "legitimate" reasons, at least according to the person who did it, and I think that its important that they have that right - even if I disagree with their choice.

That doesn't mean however, that people who excessively vote low should be allowed to continue. I know I have voted a couple of "good squads" a 1, generally because it either had a major flaw, or because it was the 27th version of that squad to make the top 10, and it was created 3 months after the original. I've got no problem with there being repeat builds and names, but you shouldn't be upset if I vote you lower than someone who created the same exact squad months ago. Now, within a few weeks, or even a month, I probably wouldn't do that. And if its just one copy, same deal. I voted a 10 to DM's squad this morning, even though its almost identical to one I made almost a month ago.

My easy example right now is this. Someone posting a 200pt GGDAC with IG-86s and a Lancer here in February will get a 1 or a 2 from me, unless it has something unique that makes me think differently about it. Its not an insult to you, and its not a bad squad. Its just that someone else deserves the higher rated squad than you, and I will rate accordingly.

The new updates are great. Its way easier to look for a squad. The separation of Squad sizes are a nice feature as well. On the subject of "Squad Killers", I dont think that there is much that can be done. As long as people have the choice to vote for whatever they want, they are going to vote squads as bad as or as good as they want. They only real solution is to take away voting and giving everyone 10 votes on their 10 favorites squads and those being to only votes that each member would get. You could change what your favorite is and have the system rankings based on what squad is voted most popular among the members. This will not stop people from adding new accounts but some kind of time frame restriction would help deter "Self Lovers"

I say do nothing and let them cry not all squads are 8 or better and i am tired of seeing lame squads on the top.

That is a blatant response to rate a good squad a 1... if someone created an almost an identical copy of the 27th version of that squad without even knowing, that person should not deserve a 1 in that respective. A squad that deserves a 1 are squads that lack synergy, structurally into a big disadvantage and no creativity (majority of pieces that rely on themselves to do most of the work than relying on anything... there's no I in team). I feel that rating a 1 without understanding the real issue of that squad is not elaborate enough. Which is why I feel that the rating system in www.newgrounds.com have a good rating system. It tells the person who design the squad it's Capabilities, synergy, fun factor, and so on.

I feel that there will be a problem for repeat builds, therefore... I would like to see where "anybody designing the same setup squad as the other person, the pop-up or something will close and said, "Sorry, this squad has already been created" and if anyone has the same squad name, it would say "please change a new name" to prevent further repetitive squads from entering, causing massive floods of looking at the same squad over and over again.." People should look at DIFFERENT squad builds, encouraging more variety.... if anything more of the same vague exact squad builds just makes squad rating boring for any one of us to look

While not to the extent of Billiv, I have noticed a trend of certain squads looking the same, and it has affected how I rate them. You can only look at the same 4 pieces together before it wears thin.

I agree that unwarranted 10s are just as bad as 1s. But I'm not sure a different rating system is the answer. The problem is that if I implement something like this, people will start rating their own squads 9s and other people's squads 2s and still beat the system.

i thought you were just flirting with me, Bill. j/k



i'm personally on the same page with Bill here. i'm tired of seeing the same squads over and over again. there's only so many times that i can see KKJBM, Wedge, Ghost Luke, and filler before i crack and rate all the next ones i see much lower than the first time i saw it.

i think the problem has mostly cleared its self up with shinja's new calculation of which squads are concidered "top 5". the addition of a different top 5 per point total really helps the situation as well.

I think the best solution is to crack down on 'sock' accounts. Require an email to sign-up an account. Your Admin control section should allow you to see when people are using multiple accounts from the same IP address. Granted, there are some times where you might have two people who live at the same address, but want different accounts, so may need to be careful about just out-right banning people when things like that happen.

But it should be pretty easy to determine if multiple 1 ratings are all coming from similar IP addresses, which I suspect they are.


The next option: non-anonymous ratings. I know there is concern that it could cause problems between people, but if you rate a squad, and then leave an honest comment about it, then it shouldn't be a problem. The only people who will get all bent out of shape with a system like that is the ones who wanted to abuse the current system anyway, and can't handle the fact that they might be held accountable for how they treat other people (or their squads).

Personally, if I ran a site like this and found people were voting 1's a lot on stuff...I'd probably out-right ban them, and then ban their IP as well. Obviously, give them some sort of warning first (reset/erase all their ratings and squads maybe), but if they don't fall into line, then off they go.

I'm gonna have to agree with you
no matter what we do "they" will still find a way around it...