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Making Old WOTC Sets Playable Options
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Thursday, September 9, 2021 7:39:08 PM
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I used my brain (people still do that right?)…and years of playing experience (lots of that around here!)…to come up with combinations of tweaks/changes that made sense with as much of the current characters as I could. These are just my suggestions, so take them or leave them. No skin off my back.

I don’t have the immense amount of time needed to test all these by myself. Hence the ask for help.

As for the very verbose response above, was that a suggestion or an offer to help?

And thanks for bumping the thread! BlooMilk
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Friday, September 10, 2021 1:43:42 PM
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Chris Tucker to Jackie Chan: “Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth?!”
🤔
Cassus fett
Posted: Saturday, September 11, 2021 4:22:05 AM
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I have a question about your design philosophy with this project. On the first page you say " Here is an attempt at doing just that...by using the old characters and changing as little as possible to make players want to use them..."

But I've noticed that on some of your more recent work there are some pretty drastic changes. Revan with his brand new reserves type ability in Star Forge and (CoTF) Malak's new stacked card.

I'm just wondering if you've changed your mind on the above quote. I'd also like to clarify that I'm a big fan of this project (the new Malak looks awesome), that quote just caught my attention in relation to some of the V2 figures.
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Saturday, September 11, 2021 7:25:19 AM
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Good question. And there’s a long answer to it, but I will abbreviate it.
Yes. My original intent was to change as little as possible…and that was doable for a lot of the original sets (RS, CS, ROTS). However, as I moved into the more diverse sets that spanned more of the factions, I found that the V-set designs were pushing for more changes to the old characters to make them playable. As you’ve noticed with Revan. I had to read up on him, as all I knew about him was from the computer game. The Star Forge addition was just to good to pass up.
My goal is to make the older characters playable and hopefully it means a simple cost change, but some guys need a LOT of help.
(Ulic will hopefully live up to his story…)
Cassus fett
Posted: Saturday, September 11, 2021 7:35:46 AM
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imyurhukaberry wrote:
Good question. And there’s a long answer to it, but I will abbreviate it.
Yes. My original intent was to change as little as possible…and that was doable for a lot of the original sets (RS, CS, ROTS). However, as I moved into the more diverse sets that spanned more of the factions, I found that the V-set designs were pushing for more changes to the old characters to make them playable. As you’ve noticed with Revan. I had to read up on him, as all I knew about him was from the computer game. The Star Forge addition was just to good to pass up.
My goal is to make the older characters playable and hopefully it means a simple cost change, but some guys need a LOT of help.
(Ulic will hopefully live up to his story…)


Totally cool, mission creep is always a concern. To your point, for Boba Enforcer V2 all you did was chop the point cost. I guess I'm just surprised the early sets (RS-UH) didn't need more Revan style help versus the newer sets.
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Saturday, September 11, 2021 7:41:11 AM
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I probably could change every character to make them more accurate, but I try to look at what was there and the interaction with ALL the other characters and the points levels…and it’s daunting at times!
So sometimes it just makes sense to reduce the points. Like Boba Enforcer…he has quite a few other versions, so without remaking Enforcer to be like another, I left his stats/abil alone.
Old CS Jedi were another group that just made sense to mostly just reduce the points. The Yoda/Yaddle combo makes them playable already, but reducing their points makes even more playable.
In the end, I hope it helps people to enjoy the game more. We don’t need to remake all the old guys, when some just needed a little help.
Cassus fett
Posted: Saturday, September 11, 2021 11:58:05 AM
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imyurhukaberry wrote:
Confused Curious if anyone has tested any of these changes...?
If you can, please let me know how it went.
I would suggest making a squad with the old figure first and playing it. Then same squads, both sides, but with the updated character. (as can with points)
Do not use too many updated characters in a squad, as it won't be focused enough to test individual differences.
Thank you in advance! ThumpUp


Ask and Ye shall receive. Finished some playing, I won't do a play by play battle report just squads and highlights.

Squads were 200 points and followed all restrictions. It was time travelling Sith vs. Guardians of the Republic.
V2 characters for Sith were TFU1 Darth Revan V2 and CotF11 Darth Malak V2 (of course I used him because I can't seem to shut up about him.)
V2 characters for Republic were CotF26 General Windu V2 and UH5 Obi-Wan on Boga V2 (Why? Because I wanted to, shut up.)
Each squad had V-set and WotC vanilla pieces as well. Looking back the Sith team had better grunts, should've balanced that a little better but oh well. I included V-set pieces because the goal of these V2 pieces is that they're supposed to be viable in today's (V-Set) meta. Apologies if they were never intended to be used with V-Set pieces but it made sense to me.

Highlights
- Ambush + Juyo Mastery + Master Tactician is amazing. I may be biased here however since Malak ambushed into double crits and dropped 4 attacks.
- Revan's Star Forge went off! I got a 10 late in the game and got a Krath War droid. It uh, didn't do anything of value, but the ability went off and that was neat.
- Malak's CE + Exar Kun's Dark Aura = Almost impossible saves.
- General Windu is phenomenal with the V2 changes, specifically Force Attuned. Holy S@*t I cannot emphasize how great it is to be able to use Shatterpoint without blowing your entire turn. The Renewal and Lightsaber defense are icing on the cake.

Takeaways
- I think Malak's CE needs to be changed. Board wide -4 to saves against attacks is odd and kind of breaks game precedent. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe that there is a legal character with a board wide negative effect for enemy characters. Nute Gunray is the only one I can think of and he effects allies, not enemies. Even a "within 6 squares" addition would make me feel better.
- Obi on Boga V2 is better than Vanilla. But the Vehicles of War V-Set version is still better. Vanilla < V2 < V-Set.
- Malak and Revan work really, really, well together. I know they were designed to work well together, but I'm concerned they work too well together. Revan's Master Tactician, plus Intuition, plus getting Ambush from Malak lets him move 12 squares, and still get to make his triple attacks, with Advantageous Attack as well.
- Seriously, General Windu V2 is awesome.
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Saturday, September 11, 2021 1:55:06 PM
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Awesome! Thanks for the play test and recap.

I’m not sure why I didn’t limit Malak’s CE to 6 sqrs, but I will make that change. I know he has access to Booming Voice, but that starts to add up quick.

Boga huh? I will have to look at him again. It’s been too long. PS...one thing to keep in mind...Vset Boga is a commander...where as Vanilla and V2 are followers and subject to more CEs (like Gen Windu, Gen Sky). BlooMilk

Revan V2 is still 68 pts with Malak’s rapport. That’s still a lot of cost…so helping him be OP isn’t horrible. A few characters almost half his points can move 12 and do 120 or more (Asajj)

Glad you like Windu. He was always one of my first minis and favorites, but he was so hard to use later on. Spending 72 pts should get you a pretty tough guy.

(edited to add PS Boga response above)
bbben
Posted: Saturday, September 11, 2021 7:03:58 PM
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Have you thought about the Solo twins at all? Cool pieces, but not the most viable...
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Monday, September 13, 2021 11:22:26 AM
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Don't worry Ben...they are coming...
I try to go thru the sets in order. However, I do jump around here and there.
Stay tuned...
Cassus fett
Posted: Wednesday, September 15, 2021 10:55:25 AM
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I intend to do more play testing tomorrow and I wanted clarification on something before I do. Are these new V2 pieces designed to be played with V-Set pieces or are they for a pure WotC type game?
I just don’t want to play them in an arena they weren’t designed for and report back unrepresentative results.
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Wednesday, September 15, 2021 12:13:20 PM
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They were/are being designed with intent to play with all V-set pieces.
I'm not sure I will go thru ALL the WOTC characters, but definitely up to Clone Wars. Then we'll see from there.
Cassus fett
Posted: Wednesday, September 15, 2021 1:07:54 PM
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imyurhukaberry wrote:
They were/are being designed with intent to play with all V-set pieces.
I'm not sure I will go thru ALL the WOTC characters, but definitely up to Clone Wars. Then we'll see from there.


BlooMilk
Cassus fett
Posted: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 2:54:24 PM
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I'm back and only a week late. Let's just say medical conditions suck.

Squads were 200 points and followed all restrictions.

Picking up where we last left off, the time travelling Sith lords, having bested the greatest guardians of the Republic, ran head first into the successor state. Naturally, Palpatine took advantage of the death of such excellent Jedi and declared the new order. However Palpatine, being Palpatine, wasn't going to share that power with his helpful predecessors, oh no (he didn't even say thanks) and moved to crush his perceived rivals.

V2 characters for Sith were TFU1 Darth Revan V2 and CotF11 Darth Malak V2 (Exact same team as last time).

V2 characters for Empire were RotS 59 Emperor Palpatine V2 and UH38 Grand Admiral Thrawn V2 and CS18 Arc Trooper (Yep, ARC Troopers. I wanted to see how they were with Thrawn's stat boosts.)

The Empire had Fordo (vset Command of the Galaxy) and Mas (natch).
Sith had Exar DFS (vset dotf), Gloom walker infiltrators and recruits, and ordnance specialists).

Highlights
- Palpatine is a monster. Once he got close he absolutely spanked Revan.
- Revan's Star Forge went off! Again! 15 for initiative brought a Krath War droid again. It uh, didn't do anything of value, again. It tried really hard, even landed a hit on Palpatine (who Lightsaber Defensed it). Palpatine demolished it the next round.
- Zipline for the ARC Troopers isn't as busted as I initially thought. Replaces Turn was definitely the right call for that.
- Thrawn is just as good as he always is, me being dumb forgot all about the swap, not that it really mattered, Palpatine handled business.

Takeaways
- I think Malak's CE change is good. It didn't really come into play this game but the within 6 change is good.
- Palpatine with 6 starting force and Renewal 1 is too much. I say keep the Renewal and drop starting to 3 or 4. He had 8 force points before any real combat began.
- Malak and Revan lose some punch when they can't guarantee their ambushes. This is a good thing.
- Cunning on Thrawn is nice. The "Followers get +3/+3" Definitely requires more testing. I like the idea of some Vader's getting those stat bumps.
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Thursday, September 23, 2021 6:21:22 AM
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Zip Line plus Thrawn...still leaves the swapped character open for one phase.

I will look at Palps...but I think for what he does, he should be pretty spot on. Given it's when he takes out 3 Jedi Masters in about 10 seconds...

As for Infinite Engine (Star Forge)...Revan giving the droids +4 Atk and being able to basically Intuition I thought was two good boosts to get them in the action faster, then boost them once they did. I'll take a look and see if any other characters make sense with him. Those two just stood out as they were droids and about the right point values with decent stats. (both had Double too...which goes well with Revan's movement portion of his CE)
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Friday, September 24, 2021 7:23:06 AM
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PS...did the addition of Jedi Hunter to allied Order 66 guys make a big difference? Was it too much?
Cassus fett
Posted: Friday, September 24, 2021 9:05:38 AM
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imyurhukaberry wrote:
PS...did the addition of Jedi Hunter to allied Order 66 guys make a big difference? Was it too much?


Blushing I completely missed it. If I had accounted for it, it would’ve made the Empire’s victory easier.
I’d petition to move giving Jedi Hunter to O66 characters onto one of the ROTS Vaders but that’s a personal preference. It would help with the “this Palpatine does everything.”

As for the droids from Star Forge I’m not really upset that the Krath Droids didn’t do anything, they’re terrible pieces so getting them for free is totally ok with me.
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Friday, September 24, 2021 10:20:55 AM
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Terrible you say???
The Krath Droid would be +15 Atk 18 Def doing 20 damage w/ Double...and have 40HP...that can move it's speed before activations (Revan's CE)...which could put it adjacent to take advantage of the Double. (of course, with Revan's CE covering allies, the Krath would probably be least to get it...but point is it could help)
The Assault Droid...well...it would be able to do something I hope. Wink
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Wednesday, October 6, 2021 10:34:26 AM
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Also...on the ARC Troopers...did you find only having 40 HP a problem?
And if so, would 50 HP be that one extra little thing to put them there?
Cassus fett
Posted: Wednesday, October 6, 2021 1:59:15 PM
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imyurhukaberry wrote:
Also...on the ARC Troopers...did you find only having 40 HP a problem?
And if so, would 50 HP be that one extra little thing to put them there?


With everything the V2 arc troopers can do, i'd leave it at 40 for just balance (I also thought they were fine with 40). Plus it simplifies tracking because you can just use the WOTC card with say a sticky note for their abilities. One less thing to track.
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