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Meta thoughts post GaW Options
swinefeld
Posted: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:39:18 PM
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Sithborg wrote:
If what I've seen is true, I am really excited about competitive play. A lot of small things will change for a fun enviroment.


I agree as well. The only thing that bugs me a little is the map situation. However, that is off-topic for this thread. All in all, the changes to the floor rules are going to shake things up a bit and should make for more interesting and fun games. ThumpUp
Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 2:14:16 PM
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Not too off topic. Maps do have a direct effect on the meta. I just hope a few of the maps stay.
swinefeld
Posted: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:37:11 AM
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Well, I know there are problems with Teth Monastery and Taris, for example. They can be easily abused by certain squad types. However, to a lesser extent that is true of many other legal maps as well.

My take is that for normal DCI play, the list should remain mostly as is, or even get expanded. IMO, Broken Christophsis, Rattatak Arena, and Crystal Caves are not THAT bad. Variety is good, even if there are a few problematic situations.

Now, if the meta for high-level competition (regionals, the major events) is narrowed too much by certain maps being legal, then a more restricted list could be used for those. I'm curious as to what analysis resulted in such a solution being deemed unworthy.

Are there that many DCI players out there that will seek to take advantage and abuse some of these maps with the same squads all year long just because it is "legal" to do so? If that is the case, then I think there is more of a problem with players than there is with maps.

I'm hopeful this can be addressed in a meaningful way in the future. I also realize all this stuff is a work in progress. My LGS only does DCI, and I just don't have the time to run casual games there on an ongoing basis. It sure would be nice if we could use more of the stuff we've shelled out good money for...

Sithborg
Posted: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:00:58 AM
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Fairly certain Ilum will be made legal. I like Rattatak, I hope it stays. And given how much people hate the Rebel snowspeeder squads, I don't see too much objection to Teth leaving. Not sure what else might leave. Given how well Mapmaker has taken advice on maps, we can hope more are commissioned.
swinefeld
Posted: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:55:27 AM
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Ha, I forgot Rattatak was legal. Holocron guide still has it listed as illegal. Yes, I hope it stays too.

I won't mind much if Teth goes either. It's an odd map, with those areas on one end that you can hide in, and of course the open gambit isn't fun.

Taris can be tough to play on, but I still like it.

Good to hear that Ilum might make the list.

I'm not holding my breath for WotC to commission more maps, but it would be nice to get another starter set or map pack(s) after Dark Times.
I really like Mapmaker's Courier Ship/Shipping Center maps.
NickName
Posted: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:56:41 AM
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swinefeld wrote:
Ha, I forgot Rattatak was legal. Holocron guide still has it listed as illegal.


Weird. Fixed!

PS. If you're interested in the DCI maps list, you might be interested in this discussion going on on the Wizards board:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/21840673/If_there_were_a_restricted_map_list_what_maps_would_you_include
mercenary_moose
Posted: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:01:14 PM
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NickName joined Bloo Milk?!
Sithborg
Posted: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:43:23 PM
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Yeah that is a good discussion. Sadly my phone doesn't handle wotc too well.
Like I originally said, things are going to very different come regionals.
swinefeld
Posted: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:56:39 PM
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NickName wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
Ha, I forgot Rattatak was legal. Holocron guide still has it listed as illegal.


Weird. Fixed!

PS. If you're interested in the DCI maps list, you might be interested in this discussion going on on the Wizards board:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/21840673/If_there_were_a_restricted_map_list_what_maps_would_you_include


Thank you for that. :)

And thank you again for the second part!

Wow, and I even went straight to the thread instead of an error message Woot

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OLDMANKENOBI
Posted: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 3:42:03 PM
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if we are going to change the maps mabee they could be made available to everyone, after it is decided what is legal.Im kinda new and have a hard time locating the older maps
Sithborg
Posted: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 3:59:45 PM
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That's sort of out of our control. All up to wizards if we get new or reprinted maps.
That said, map availability is a factor. I mentioned it in the super resricted list discussion.
OLDMANKENOBI
Posted: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:29:21 PM
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thank you much ,it can be discouraging entering a gun fight with an Ole' timer pocket knife !!
Mickey
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:50:50 AM
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I would be concerned about a restricted map list that new players would have a hard time obtaining a legal one. If we want this game to continue we need it to grow by getting new players to start up collecting. I'd love to see a starter set that actually had a starting 100 or 150 squad complete with legal map, die and LOS tool. Maybe one for each faction.

I know this has been talked about around the table and David and I talked about it, what are the chances of setting a map list for national level play such as regionals and GenCon and then a list for regular LGS play?
swinefeld
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:00:05 AM
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Mickey wrote:
I would be concerned about a restricted map list that new players would have a hard time obtaining a legal one. If we want this game to continue we need it to grow by getting new players to start up collecting. I'd love to see a starter set that actually had a starting 100 or 150 squad complete with legal map, die and LOS tool. Maybe one for each faction.

I know this has been talked about around the table and David and I talked about it, what are the chances of setting a map list for national level play such as regionals and GenCon and then a list for regular LGS play?


Mickey, if you haven't yet done so, read that WotC thread that Nickname linked to above. The fact that Nickname brought this up for discussion I view as quite promising. And the discussion really covers the issues nicely.

As to whether it will be adopted, and when....???
Mickey
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 10:17:15 AM
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I'm going to try if I can get some time from working here at my job LOL
swinefeld
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:37:38 PM
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OLDMANKENOBI wrote:
if we are going to change the maps mabee they could be made available to everyone, after it is decided what is legal.Im kinda new and have a hard time locating the older maps


So far, the "Championship" list being discussed includes 3 maps from Attack on Endor and the one from the 2007 Starter, all of which can still be easily obtained at this time.

If this comes to fruition, I think the "Casual" list (for typical LGS DCI matches) will be large and include many of the newest maps, though perhaps not all...

It's an interesting discussion. The map lists would be separated from the point totals, as follows:

100, 150, 200 points
Casual, Huge-Friendly, Championship

Tournament organizers could then match a point total with a map list as they wish.


It's a pretty good plan so far IMO.



NickName
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:38:23 PM
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mercenary_moose wrote:
NickName joined Bloo Milk?!


I've used the site for ages. I only post on the forum when there's something about HOLOCRON or somebody posts something just straight up incorrect about something I'm involved in (comments from designers, DCI floor rules, etc) which is pretty rare--thus the low post count.
Mickey
Posted: Friday, November 20, 2009 1:28:00 AM
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I really like where this topic is going. I was hoping for a consideration in rules defining between casual DCI and competitive. Hopefully more of the rules start to diverge beyond just maps as well. To me there are items of interest more in a highly competitive environment like regionals that don't necessarily have to be there for our normal LGS nights. Thanks Nickname for getting this thing rolling Woot
OLDMANKENOBI
Posted: Friday, November 20, 2009 3:17:34 PM
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what ever comes of it it is imperitive to game growth that all DCI maps that are legal at tournys be available to all players.At least if we have the funds for them.
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