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Wish i could have made the drive, but we had a sweet Dynamic Duo Tourny at my LGS. maybe ill try to make the next one.
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so you are saying that if luck gives you all 1's on your d20 [hypothetically] that it would not effect the outcome of the game?
my point has been proved now, thanks!
lmao
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dahatchetjeedi wrote:so you are saying that if luck gives you all 1's on your d20 [hypothetically] that it would not effect the outcome of the game?
my point has been proved now, thanks!
lmao is that really you counter argument?
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There is an element of luck, of course. However, the best players know how to build and play to minimize its impact.
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Sithborg wrote:There is an element of luck, of course. However, the best players know how to build and play to minimize its impact. lol it depends n tthe game...the die could give you CLUTCH rolls or then again give you all 1's...so in theory it doesnt matter HOW GOOD your squad is if the die doesnt like you if you dont treat it with respect lol (thats why i polish mine every week..JK JK :D ) 
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creme_brule wrote:Sithborg wrote:There is an element of luck, of course. However, the best players know how to build and play to minimize its impact. lol it depends n tthe game...the die could give you CLUTCH rolls or then again give you all 1's...so in theory it doesnt matter HOW GOOD your squad is if the die doesnt like you if you dont treat it with respect lol (thats why i polish mine every week..JK JK :D ) I once rolled 12 1s in a game, 7 of which were for init. I won handily. I don't particularly want to discuss the degree of luck vs skill in this thread, other than to say, most players attribute a great deal more to luck than is reality. (If you want to discuss the issue, we have plenty of times before, just do so in another thread).
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billiv15 wrote:creme_brule wrote:Sithborg wrote:There is an element of luck, of course. However, the best players know how to build and play to minimize its impact. lol it depends n tthe game...the die could give you CLUTCH rolls or then again give you all 1's...so in theory it doesnt matter HOW GOOD your squad is if the die doesnt like you if you dont treat it with respect lol (thats why i polish mine every week..JK JK :D ) I once rolled 12 1s in a game, 7 of which were for init. I won handily. I don't particularly want to discuss the degree of luck vs skill in this thread, other than to say, most players attribute a great deal more to luck than is reality. (If you want to discuss the issue, we have plenty of times before, just do so in another thread). i emant in THEORY, meaniing theoretically if you rolled ALL 1s and your oponents rolled ALL 20s youd obvioulsy lose...but obviusly that would never happen ...;)
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Geez...
Any players that attended the event have any more to add about their games?
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dahatchetjeedi wrote:
now nowhere did I say that speedy cannon should be illegal, but something NEEDS to be created [fig wise] to counter this army, otherwise it WILL be the death of SW minis as we know and love it
No problem. I've got plenty of squads that can do it at 200pts. Hop on Vassal sometime and I will gladly show you.
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So apparently as a result of this event I have become a Packer Fan. I mean naturally playing a "Cheese Squad" must make me a Cheese Head. For the record this is actually the first time I have played the Speeder at an event. I respect you dude, but I am a little offended that I drive 9hours each way to get there around a rockslide to be accused of running a "cheese squad." This kind of thing makes me seriously consider whether or not I would come out to Nashville for another event. Now don't get me wrong, I thouroughly enjoyed this event, well minus the bad dice in game 3 haha, but I am a little offended that my squad is referred to as cheese. I know the Snowspeeder is played a lot, but give people a break, some of us, both Gray and myself have never or rarely run the speeder at an event. If there is an issue with Cheese Squads, just post on the thread about minis that ruin the game. Go in and down the Speeder/Smuggler as much as you want, but not on a play report thread, please!
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billiv15 wrote:dahatchetjeedi wrote:
now nowhere did I say that speedy cannon should be illegal, but something NEEDS to be created [fig wise] to counter this army, otherwise it WILL be the death of SW minis as we know and love it
No problem. I've got plenty of squads that can do it at 200pts. Hop on Vassal sometime and I will gladly show you. I dont do vassal, sorry... and I know it can be beaten, but the problem there is that the squads that are truly proficient in destroying speedy cannon are very easy to beat with just about anything else! eh... either way, you all know what I mean. there is no need to argue about it. I mean heck, if everyone ran a speedy cannon army then tournaments would be so close every single time that it would be ridiculous. it would take FOREVER!!! in short Im not complaining, just stating that speedy cannon armies have done everything BUT bring balance to the force... not calling anyone cheap for using it either, its just that the rules make this army mildly cheesy... and I will fully agree that Boba BH is a mild cheddar... there are plenty of qualms that I have with certian figs and mechanics of the game... but that is neither here nor there.
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imyurhukaberry wrote:Easy guys. Dean was not trying to insult anyone. Please reread his post. He was making a comment on the apparent skill of a player based on what he chose to use in a DCI tournament. Nothing more. Please do not take it the wrong way. Even I, who has really limited DCI play, can see that there could be some improvements in some of the squads used. (well most actually...) There's no offense there, just making an observation. I learned a lot from players that have a lot more DCI experience than me. And I appreciate each one of them for it. I was going to edit Hatchet's post, but I think I will leave it up as an example of how NOT to tell someone that they felt insulted. Even that can be done in an official manner.  really??? dnemiller wrote:It was Nashville's first DCI tourney and judging by the Boba Machine gun squad that the poster ran it is clear that it was a newbie squad. this is an obvious attack on a player dean has had previous run ins with... how about the fact that he had NOTHING to do with this tourney, but only looked and said anything about it because he doesn't get along with certain people here locally that shall remain nameless? maybe everyone should look up the definition of "ignorant" it roughly means "to not know" so in my using this term is not baiting... HE WAS NOT THERE, THUS HE DOES NOT KNOW...
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I'll admit that when I sat down at the table across from the MTB/BFBH squad, he mentioned that his map was Teth. I asked if he was playing a Snowspeeder squad based on that, and he laughed and said something about how he would never play that because it's such a cheap squad. I held my tongue out of respect (a respect that he seems to lack), but come on. He was playing BFBH on TETH for crying out loud, and he's going to call someone out for playing a "cheap" squad? I strongly agree with the people who have said that no squad is "cheap" or "unfair" as long as it's legal, but if I didn't, I think that in 200 points BFBH on Teth would top that list. He had absolutely no room to criticize someone else's squad for being cheap, AT ALL. Not only did he play probably the cheesiest, most crutch piece in the game, he played on what is probably the cheesiest map to boot.
And to be honest, it seemed fairly obvious that the player used BFBH as a cheese piece, not as a finesse piece. The name "Finesse O' Fett" is misleading. Not only was it far from an optimal squad, he didn't even play what he had very well. In the middle of round 2 Han STA got easily brought to 20 HP (would have been dead had Mara Jade hit with both of her Twin Attacks instead of 1), and he left Boba Fett 1 space away from MJJ. He won init at the start of Round 3, went first, and had Han shoot some stuff before he died (leaving BFBH un-activated). I activated 2, had Kyle (or Kol, I don't remember) finish off Han and Mara Jade used a Cunning Lightsaber Assault to easily take out BFBH in a single phase.
Now I don't want to criticize him as a person (I'm fairly certain this was his first highly competitive DCI event, so it's to be expected (don't ask about some of my first attempts at "competitive" squads, lol)), but all of these things (cheesy squad build, cheesy map choice, and generally lack-luster play) lead me to believe that this player is not really in the place to comment much on the national meta, let alone criticize the choices of others. I'm not saying that it's some sort of club that you have to prove yourself to join, but there is a certain level of experience and knowledge that is necessary to really effectively judge other people's squads and play styles.
This is not meant to be a personal attack on anyone by any means, and should not be taken as such. This is meant to point out that 666 and dahatchetjeedi's comments calling SS squads "cheap" or "cheesy" are unnecessary and unfounded.
Back on topic (lol), I'll say that I did have a great time at the event. I always love road trippin' it for some SWM, and this didn't disappoint. Everyone was nice while we were there, and all of my games were enjoyable. I do hope that the Nashville guys continue to host tournaments and grow as a group, giving the south east another solid group. It's always cool to see new play groups pop up, and is especially exciting for us in Atlanta to have some fresh blood just a few hours north. Good show, gentlemen, keep up the good work.
Also a huge thanks to Jason for judging the event. I don't think there were a whole lot of tough rules questions as far as I can remember, but to drive down there and not even play when the need for a judge arose is awesome, and it was great to see him. Hopefully we'll be able to make a trip back up to Owensboro sooner rather than later.
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dahatchetjeedi wrote:imyurhukaberry wrote:Easy guys. Dean was not trying to insult anyone. Please reread his post. He was making a comment on the apparent skill of a player based on what he chose to use in a DCI tournament. Nothing more. Please do not take it the wrong way. Even I, who has really limited DCI play, can see that there could be some improvements in some of the squads used. (well most actually...) There's no offense there, just making an observation. I learned a lot from players that have a lot more DCI experience than me. And I appreciate each one of them for it. I was going to edit Hatchet's post, but I think I will leave it up as an example of how NOT to tell someone that they felt insulted. Even that can be done in an official manner. really??? dnemiller wrote:It was Nashville's first DCI tourney and judging by the Boba Machine gun squad that the poster ran it is clear that it was a newbie squad. this is an obvious attack on a player dean has had previous run ins with... how about the fact that he had NOTHING to do with this tourney, but only looked and said anything about it because he doesn't get along with certain people here locally that shall remain nameless? maybe everyone should look up the definition of "ignorant" it roughly means "to not know" so in my using this term is not baiting... HE WAS NOT THERE, THUS HE DOES NOT KNOW... But the fact remains that he was right. Dean's smart enough to see a squad build and a play report and make an educated opinion like he did. If it makes you feel better, copy/paste Dean's post here. I was there, and I agree with his assessment.
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As to the "Unbeatable Cheesy Speeder/Smuggler/Leia Team" arguement i have to say its one of my least fav squads in the game but i except it and counter it im a meta gamer i ran LV the perfect speeder counter and he did his job. If your worried about speeder play a team that can beat it. There is no need to call someone out about the speeder even more so when your running BFBH for pete's sake.
I was able to beat the speeder on teth with one melee piece as an attacker, that team is not unbeatable its just solid against a lot of things. Playing against good squads makes you a better player. Im glad ive gotten pulverized by Flobi/Ani teams and Speedy Cannon teams and playing against good players they helped me form differant ways to combat my opponents strategies.
I ended up driving 12 hours to make it to your event. Your event would be minus 6 people if the atlanta guys/charlotte guys dont come and minus a great judge in Jason and the winner of the event if the owenboro guys didnt come. If you want to help your local scene grow stop calling out people that run certain team and learn how to counter them.
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once again no player was attacked...
nor were they aimed at for their squad choice!
all that was said is that the generic form of speedy cannon is a lil cheesy.
and I did admit that Boba BH is also cheesy.
the point is that where there are ways to defeat the speedy cannon, those squads lack what it takes to compete with other squads. this is all...
I must say that it was a very enjoyable experience in all...
and I enjoyed playing with new people...
I respect all who came to play.
also I must concur with mad fat props to Jason for judging when Im sure we will all agree that he would prob rather have played...
for you sir, I have much respect!
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dahatchetjeedi wrote:I dont do vassal, sorry...
and I know it can be beaten, but the problem there is that the squads that are truly proficient in destroying speedy cannon are very easy to beat with just about anything else! You don't play Vassal (weak) so we will just not really understand how good of a player you are and all the "new" squad types you have developed that would change the meta game. I'm guessing that you also don't attend Gencon?
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dahatchetjeedi wrote:
the point is that where there are ways to defeat the speedy cannon, those squads lack what it takes to compete with other squads. this is all...
Yes and at 200pts, I firmly disagree with this statement, even under the current rules which allow Teth.
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do you nerfs realize you debating cheese
your squad is cheese!
no sir! your squad is
no way!
yes way
cheese head
cheese dip
this goes on until mom gives you a time out
squads choices are a matter of opinion, and as such, they cannot be wrong
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It's always funny how these things change. When I won with Speedy Cannon, people were oh so happy to see a huge mini competing. It was considered "original," "creative," "theme," and other such monikers. But a year and a half later, and it's all, "cheap," "cheese," and "broken". The same tends to be true of any new great squad idea. At first people love it, and then those who come along later, hate it, usually because they don't know the history well, if at all.
In 2008, very few people believed a huge mini, even Luke's SS could compete. 150 it was considered a non-factor at all because of maps. In 2009, in Gencon prep, we all knew the SS would be heavily played, because of several factors. 1 - map list, 2 - Reeikan, 3 - cheap Rebel tech and support. Most of us knew it would be a dominant squad and planned accordingly.
But one of the keys to understanding this, is that the above, only applies to 150pts. At 200, the SS squads are much less dangerous for a number of reasons. Mainly, because they don't get significantly better at 200 where they lose their advantage of cheap tech. But also because the other factions can catch up in terms of support, damage output and mobility. There are plenty of builds that can handle the SS at 200, and they aren't "unable to compete with other squads". Heck, I can make at least one in every faction that can do it decently enough, and several factions, have multiple options.
But competitive play tends to push people to what they know (or think) is the best. They are less willing to take risks in most cases with "unproven" builds. So the local scene suffers to a degree in terms of variety for a time. That's normal for any game. Don't worry though, with another regional season and Gencon to come in 2010, there will likely be another build altogether to complain about come this time next year. The best players are already figuring all of that out. You too can do it Hatchet, just don't get locked into a mindset that its unbeatable.
From what I see of the squads in this tournament, there is plenty of room for improvement and creativity. You guys are new, enjoy that you had a good event, and a good turnout. Just leave the "cheap" or "cheese" talk out of it, or you are likely to have a bunch of people not bother to come next time. Calling someone's squad anything like that, regardless of intention, insults the player, and they are less likely to come to your place again.
One more point to make about this statement, "squads choices are a matter of opinion, and as such, they cannot be wrong." Opinions are wrong all the time. It may be more true to say there is no such thing as a "fact" than to make statements like this. All "facts" are simply widely accepted opinions usually based on evidence, although not always. And many times, they are quite wrong. What you mean to say is that people have a right to have whatever opinion they want, and to a degree that's true. That is not the same as saying all opinions are equal, or that all opinions are right (or not wrong). :)
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