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Seriously? That's what you're playing? Seriously? Options
Boris
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 2:07:18 AM
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So the last few times i have hopped on for a standard skirmish game on Vassal, every opponent I have faced on the fly - every single one - has brought Dodonna.

It's been a long time since I have played on Vassal, and I think most people know I have issues with the program's dice roller, but has the "fun" concept of Vassal really drifted so far that every squad is now built with the DCI frame of mind in check?

Vassal games take long enough without something like Dodonna or Ozzel running rampant, but that is beside the point.

What happened to the fun? I think if you want to practice for an upcoming tournament you should have the respect to alert your opponent before hand. And if you're just bringing a power-squad to the digital table because it makes you feel good, well then you have a different set of internal problems that you need to deal with, IMO.

If you can't handle the idea that you might lose in a Vassal game (NOT a Regional, NOT the Jedi Master Challenge, NOT the Championship or EVEN the weekly tournament at your LGS), then you're idea of having "fun" with this game is not really to have "fun" but just to "win."

Let the consternation begin, as my friend Moses would say.
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 3:00:51 AM
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When we play locally, we always decide before the game if we are playing competitively or for fun. It just helps to even out the squads.
Roque Saber
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 3:16:26 AM
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I know, at least for me, I've been expecting tourney level squads from anyone I play because of Regionals. I just assumed people would be practicing with tough squads and let it be. And is Dodonna a purely "competitive only" piece? Even in fun games I would use him if I had some extra points. It's like Doombot. No you don't have to run him, he's just a very solid option.
Boris
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 3:26:07 AM
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Roque Saber wrote:
I know, at least for me, I've been expecting tourney level squads from anyone I play because of Regionals. I just assumed people would be practicing with tough squads and let it be. And is Dodonna a purely "competitive only" piece? Even in fun games I would use him if I had some extra points. It's like Doombot. No you don't have to run him, he's just a very solid option.


Sounds logical, until you know that my vassal games have been 100 or 150 of late.
EmporerDragon
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 4:23:24 AM
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Perhaps you've just been unlucky enough to keep encountering players whose definitions of "Fun" and "High-level competitive" are the same.

It might help to include "(Looking for casual/fun games)" in your name when looking for a random match.
wannabe mexican
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 4:44:05 AM
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I don't mind Dodonna. It is when I see Dodonna and Reeikan together that my soul dies a little inside.
Uggie Demo
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 4:45:32 AM
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Well right now everyone who is going to regionals/Gencon will be playing competitivly, it will probably go down after Gencon.
Weeks
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 6:22:46 AM
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I agree with Boris on this. I think its funnier when i player copies a squad someone else has made to the T and tries to play it, it normally doesnt turn out well. What people fail to realize is you will do much better in tourneys/regionals/gencon if you run something that YOU like not something that someone else likes.

I fell into "Dodonna Mode" last year around this time when really i liked running Assajj Assassin at the time. So instead of playing a squad i really liked and was unique i ran a rieekan dodonna team at DragonCon and did very poorly. I say all that just to point out that espeicially at 200 points litterally any faction can win a regional. Will me saying that stop everyone from running NR/Rebels (dodonna)? no. It does need to be said.

It takes a pretty good player to try and pull out a big win with one of the smaller factions. Id personally love to see it happen.
NickName
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 7:20:44 AM
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Without disparaging anyone's particular tastes for what's fun, what my opponent plays never really bugged me much, and I don't agree with the basic premise that activation control slows the game any in and of itself (it's more fear of making a bad move coupled with huge damage potential) but on VASSAL I did get in the habit of asking players if they wanted to use fun squads or competetive squads before throwing anything on the table.

It's better to be in the same mindset going in even if it doesn't always turn out that what your opponent puts on on the table matched your definion of a "fun" or "competetive" squad. In many cases this simple question stopped me from putting something too mean, or too silly, on the table.
PhageLab
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 7:33:44 AM
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It's always a good idea to run silly, they never expect a Geonosian Drone/Picador swarm!
Bobafatt
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 7:56:40 AM
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Boris, me and you need to play. I am as far from competitive as it can get lol. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I just play because I love SW. Only problem is I can't get Vassal to work, I downloaded it and if I play offline everything works well but when I am online if I want to watch someone play the map will not show up, its just white and you can see a few minis.

And I tried to play last night and we set everything up but I could not drag my pieces onto the field, the person I was playing with did it for me but then I could not move them on the field. Anyone ever had these issues and what can I do?
The Celestial Warrior
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 8:01:04 AM
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Bobafatt wrote:
Boris, me and you need to play. I am as far from competitive as it can get lol. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I just play because I love SW. Only problem is I can't get Vassal to work, I downloaded it and if I play offline everything works well but when I am online if I want to watch someone play the map will not show up, its just white and you can see a few minis.

And I tried to play last night and we set everything up but I could not drag my pieces onto the field, the person I was playing with did it for me but then I could not move them on the field. Anyone ever had these issues and what can I do?


When you sync, two gray boxes pop up with "Ok" and "Cancel" or something to that effect. The first one is player. Sometimes you need to pull the window open more to see it, otherwise the default is observer, which lets you do nothing.
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 8:16:22 AM
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Might need to download the latest module...
I logged in the other day with 9.0 and the maps were not loading. Had to download the 10.0 from Holocron. (it's 64mb...so it takes a bit)
Bobafatt
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 9:43:31 AM
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imyurhukaberry wrote:
Might need to download the latest module...
I logged in the other day with 9.0 and the maps were not loading. Had to download the 10.0 from Holocron. (it's 64mb...so it takes a bit)



I did download the 10.0 a few hours ago but I do not know what do do with it once I do, the file is in my Vassel folder and the holocron memo said to replace the old SWMinis.mod but I can't find any old SWMinis.mod file to replace it. I am going to get my eldest son to check it out in a bit, maybe he can figue it out.
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 9:54:58 AM
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The .mod file should be in the subfolder labeled "modules" inside the Vassal folder.
And the memo was correct, you should delete the old one and place the new one there.

(worst case if you can't find the .mod file, do a search in Windows for that file name. Should come up...)
Bobafatt
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 10:06:38 AM
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My son got it to work, now when I open Vassal 10.0 it works perfectly so far. Now all I need is someone with patience to teach me how to play. See you guys on there ThumbsUp
LeftiesWillRule
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 11:32:26 PM
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Look, I always play competetively on Vassal, and its not because I'm afraid to lose. I don't care if I lose; its just a vassal game.

Do you know why I play competetively on Vassal? Its because that is virtually the only time I get to play competetively. All the players in my town are people that I've recruited in the past year, and none of them can match me in a competetive game. Friendly games abound, and its loads of fun. But when I want to practice my hardball and play a serious game that twists my mind more than a rubiks cube, I have two choices: play myself, or play on Vassal. I use Vassal to test myself against great players like Dnemiller so that when things like Regionals do come around, I have enough faith in my abilities to drive 3 hours each way out of state instead of just having a weekend get-together with my SWM friends.

I'm sure there are a number of people who always play hard because they can't stand losing, but don't assume that everyone is like that.
Bobafatt
Posted: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 3:42:55 AM
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Well like I said there is nothing wrong with be competitive, sometimes I wish I were more competitve myself but I am stuck this laid back demeanor. I have the otter personality, if its not fun I won't do it lol.

I think the issue with me is not the competitive nature but the fact that to be competitive means the same minis have to be used over and over. It kind of takes the fun out of a match when playing or playing against the same team all the time. There are 950 minis and you only see a handfull of them being used. Its kind of like the island of misfit toys for the other 900.

One of the things I like about my group is you never see the same team twice, you never know what to expect and that makes it always exciting. Now none of us will probably ever win a reginal but unless they give out a 2010 Mustang for first place I would not really care. ( disclaimer: if a 2010 Mustang is first place price for reginals plz disregard all of the above statements ; )

After reginals for the next 6 monthes make a vow not to use any mini more than once with the exception of the 3 point pieces. A fun suggestion and I think everyone would have fun with it. Either way I will enjoy playing you guys. I just love SW and feel privileged to be able to play this wonderful game.
TheStarkiller
Posted: Thursday, May 6, 2010 2:30:17 PM
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I would expect for most of the players on Vassal, The Sinister Dictatorship (Lefties will rule) is very similar to their mindsets. They can play pick up games with other people once or twice a week, but to get all of the regional and gen con prep, they head to vassal. I used to go to my LGS with some other guys (and 1 girl), and sit down, roll 2d6, multiply by 25, and make up teams right there on the spot. These games were all about the fun. I loved it. There is no longer a group at my LGS, and some of my friends have even sold their entire collection. I go to Vassal for fun games, and I haven't played anything but 200 pt squads in I don't even know how long (barring a couple of DD's and Booster League and Tile wars)! I do it because that is what other people want out of the game, and I want them to have fun too. I hear ya, though. I would totally pass up those "Tier 1" games if I could.
Ukezwoll
Posted: Thursday, May 6, 2010 4:37:48 PM
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Boris wrote:

What happened to the fun? I think if you want to practice for an upcoming tournament you should have the respect to alert your opponent before hand. And if you're just bringing a power-squad to the digital table because it makes you feel good, well then you have a different set of internal problems that you need to deal with, IMO.


I believe you have identified the core issue, that different players may have different ideas about what kind of games they want to play. However, then you apparently conclude that there is only one person responsible for this issue. And conveniently enough I suppose, that person just happens to be the other guy, who is looking for a different kind of game than you do. Your idea about what kind of games should be played on Vassal, for fun games with less competitive squads is the "right" idea. Which obviously means that someone looking for a competitive game has the "wrong" idea. Furthermore, this person should also realize that he or she in fact has the wrong idea about this game and should therefore feel compelled to alert you before ruining your fun with their clearly deviant.. ehh... "alternative" game style.

I disagree. I see no reason whatsoever that "for fun" nor "competitive" should be some kind of default for Vassal games. To make sure that the game will be as entertaining as possible, it's up to both players, to before the game ensure there is a common understanding about how the game should be played.

In my mind however the greater responsibility is on the player to whom certain kinds of squads, within the limits set by the rules of the game, is not ok. I'd expect a player on Vassal to abide by the rules of the game, no more, no less. And if a player would want additional restrictions, outside the rules, for how a game should be played, it would seem helpful if such a player spoke up.
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