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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/28/2008 Posts: 355 Location: Newark, OH, USA
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I could live with the multiple versions of the Uniques as it could provide for more variety in games actually. You have to choose which one you want to use in a squad. If the same abilities were on two differently named pieces, you would find combos that are always used and things get really stale. Although pulling two Lukes from a TFU booster last night was a bit much on the repeat scale (Hoth Pilot and Snowspeeder - both solid pieces, but not as much fun in one booster).
What always bothered me the most about repeats was the Rodians (9 generic ones + Greedo overall). More than one in DT even. So many other generic races that could have been done instead - even ones that had a Unique already (like Cerean).
Overall, quite a few things did get made that I never believed would when the game began. Much greater variety than the action figures line has ever reached in many more years.
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Rank: AT-ST Groups: Member
Joined: 5/21/2010 Posts: 56
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I noticed the propensity for Rodians as well, which was both amusing (Someone on the team must have a serious crush on Greedo!) and a waste (even if I love the Hunt Master and Vigo figs).
If anybody does something similar like this, I think a nice alternative to creating so many similar figures would be to either 1) create blocks of free and official stats (not to eliminate similar figs altogether, I like different poses, just don't make so many), 2) create a pack of stat cards (randomized or fixed) to update favorite/broken/weak characters.
The later would make a fair amount I think, if it boils down to marketing. I would have bought them if they were fixed. I realize how much more money a company will make with randomized things. How many of us buy cases of figs in order to get as many V/R as we can get our grubby little hands on? It's a great marketing tool. You didn't get what you want? Try the gamble again, maybe you'll get lucky. Or give up and buy the single like I do.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 2/27/2009 Posts: 205 Location: Southern Illinois
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I agree with the idea that since they were appealing to not just players of the game, but other crowds as well, that they should have at least done a male and female version of the races in the core rulebook. Some though, probably didnt need to have been bothered. Could you tell the difference, at that scale, between a male and female wookiee? Gamorrean?
As far the disapointment for MotF, i too found it a little underwhelming, and it feels like there are more than a handful of pieces from the set that you will see in competitive play, and thats a shame. Regarding your wish for more of a 'last huzzah', be glad you didnt get it.
Decipher, I feel, did this with the last set of the CCG, and the main pieces from the set were pretty ridiculous. Boba, Vader, AT-AT, Lando all significantly more powerful versions than had been released in any other set to date. I didnt frequent boards for that game, but in this game, if that had happened, youd have people screaming POWERCREEP all day long.
Be glad for being let down like that :P
Edit: Soemtimes I hate this site. Triple posted my post.
Edit also: Forgot to mention, in the first post when you listed chars with too many repeats....there are two starkillers...one light, one dark....that doesnt count as too many...
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Rank: AT-ST Groups: Member
Joined: 5/21/2010 Posts: 56
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In the first post, I was also directly referencing homebrew stats, which I've since tried to steer the conversation away from. I get people wanting to stat up favorite characters. I personally don't, generally, as it's been done to death, but I get it. Not everyone can be as enamored with Cantina Goer A as I am  I'm also looking at it more as a utilitarian supplement for the RPG, rather than a purely separate skirmish game. As far as skirmishes go, I think they did an excellent job; but it's a limited RPG resource. That's probably where the majority of my disappointment lies.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 2/27/2009 Posts: 205 Location: Southern Illinois
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Ah, my bad. Then yea, that gets old fast. People doing so many homebrew stats was the reason I really did not want to see a Revan piece made ever. No one was gonna be happy with him, and theyd complain. Guess what happened :P
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/10/2010 Posts: 1,153
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I also triple posted my first post!
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/4/2008 Posts: 1,441
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I've always understood this complaint, but I also understand the logical reasons WotC wouldn't do it. It comes down to one basic thing - sales. They believed (rightly or wrongly - I think rightly, but I really don't think there is much point in debating at this time) that they sold more minis with the distribution as is. The Saga RPG was never a major player in terms of purchases, and neither were the EU. These were always minor. Heck, competitive players (which also include the other types as well as most of us are SWs nuts anyways) were only slightly more. WotC always said they wanted to sell to "collectors" and acted as if this was their largest market share - and those people apparently wanted a mix of things - including each main in their various outfits.
Now, another issue, was the idea of attracting new players. Most people look at the game as a whole and see too many of X. But you aren't realizing that WotC was rarely concerned with marketing to you, who already had it all - you were probably going to buy anyway as they already hooked you - and while you might complain, the purchases were made. But imagine being a new player (or one getting interested) and you bought a few boosters of the newest set - and it contained all EU characters you've never heard of. You quit buying right then and there. And worse, let's say there were only 3 Vaders. The price on the secondary market would have skyrocketed, and you as a newbie would be looking at shelling out $80-120 for one mini just to have a Vader - which even worse, you'd probably need to play in a tournament if Imps were your favorite faction.
WotC had to avoid those issues to keep selling minis, and that's what they did. Look at the prices of the Vaders. Even the rares always sold well on the secondary market, regardless of how many they actually made. Demand is what drove the choices generally, not LFL.
As to the Rodian issue, well who knows. We could surmise that it was cheaper to use existing design instead of making a new race and just do a simple repose, but honestly, who cares. We never got close to having all the things every RPG GM would want, so to me, this seems like a very minor issue. I play the RPG, and will be GMing a Lvl 20 event at Gencon with Matt. (BTW sign up is available at swmgamers.com if you want to play). I've got more than enough minis between myself, and my friends to recreate what I want from an RPG - and in terms of needing a female whatever - well, I talk to real females so I find little need to play one in an RPG :) J/k. WotC did a lot better with this as time went on, as the "DEMAND" went up for RPG stuff. We probably would have gotten a lot more good stuff over the next few years, but WotC quit on us in order to shore up Magic the Gathering - so what can you do.
As for V-sets (I know this wasn't a major issue here - just wanted to add the advertisement) - while we aren't going to be able to add new figures, we are going to focus on the minor factions and uncreated uniques. We will still do remakes of iconic figures from time to time, but since we don't have to sell anything, we aren't going to do nearly as many WotC did. I think you will see a nice mix actually, which is probably more in line with what game players would have wanted all along.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 2/27/2009 Posts: 205 Location: Southern Illinois
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billiv15 wrote: I've got more than enough minis between myself, and my friends to recreate what I want from an RPG - and in terms of needing a female whatever - well, I talk to real females so I find little need to play one in an RPG :) J/k. I dont know about your gaming group, but in mine there are at least two female who play in most every game (DnD, SW, or D20 Modern) and both wish there were more female pieces to choose from, lol.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 1,686 Location: New York, Albany Just south of Darth Maul's House
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Skinnerman02 wrote: Not everyone can be as enamored with Cantina Goer A as I am  I'm also looking at it more as a utilitarian supplement for the RPG, rather than a purely separate skirmish game. As far as skirmishes go, I think they did an excellent job; but it's a limited RPG resource. That's probably where the majority of my disappointment lies. Once again, well said Skinnerman02.  I am in complete agreement with you. Disturbed1 wrote: Edit also: Forgot to mention, in the first post when you listed chars with too many repeats....there are two starkillers...one light, one dark....that doesnt count as too many... Like I said before repeats are cool with me. As in 2 or 3, maybe even 4 tops. I can even on the rare occasion see the reason's for 5 different Han Solo's. I'm cool with 2 starkillers. I'm a big Bounty Hunter fan. So a couple of Dengar's, 4-Lom's, or Boba's........ etc, to choose from would be cool. As it would give you a better chance of at least getting one. I have 4 Boba's and was ecstatic with each one that came from a store bought booster.  But the seventh Vader or Luke made me wish I had gotten a different VR/R in which ever booster I last bought and opened. I've read all the SW novel's and there are many characters out there that weren't shown ANY love. Which is another reason why I like to check out people's custom stat's in our custom section here. When one of these character's is shown some love. I ask the person who wrote the custom's stat's if they wouldn't mind if I use them in a home game. Just ask imurhuckaberry, carnorjax1 or joelker41. I bug them all the time for the custom stat's they have created.  Now they post those stat's which is really cool of them to share with us. And I probably don't need permission to use said stat's, because they are posted on a public forum. However, I ask anyway just to let that person know I like their idea's. I always make sure to thank them as well just to show that I appreciate they're effort in making our game even better.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 1,686 Location: New York, Albany Just south of Darth Maul's House
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billiv15 wrote:The Saga RPG was never a major player in terms of purchases, and neither were the EU. These were always minor. WotC always said they wanted to sell to "collectors" and acted as if this was their largest market share - and those people apparently wanted a mix of things - including each main in their various outfits. Nah, I find that hard to believe. I think skirmish play and SWRPG see equal use. I'd think many of our gamers here use the fig's for skirmishes and for the RPG game. Isn't that printed on every rulebook? Can also be used for SWRPG gaming. Collecting for no other reason but to look at and show off to our SW geek friends, being the number one reason to purchase said mini's IMO. Various outfits is kind of a weak argument. Vader has two. Black suit and Jedi robes, nuff said. billiv15 wrote:Now, another issue, was the idea of attracting new players. Most people look at the game as a whole and see too many of X. But you aren't realizing that WotC was rarely concerned with marketing to you, who already had it all - you were probably going to buy anyway as they already hooked you - and while you might complain, the purchases were made. I've been a gamer, D&D, SW, and many other games for 30 years. Attracting new player's is our job. We have all brought in new player's over the years. I don't see Wotc advertising on TNT, TBS or ABC. Any gamer worth their salt commits untold amounts of money into any game they choose to play. And because they spend so much money Wotc doesn't need to spend hardly any money on advertising because we essentially do it for them. By word of mouth. I hooked my son and youngest brother plus at least a hundred other people over the years. Wotc can't take credit for that. billiv15 wrote:But imagine being a new player (or one getting interested) and you bought a few boosters of the newest set - and it contained all EU characters you've never heard of. You quit buying right then and there. Highly doubt that. Case in point my 13 year old son yawning when I show him the latest re-make of Luke. Or my 16 year old brother asking me why there is only one version of Cad Bane. billiv15 wrote:And worse, let's say there were only 3 Vaders. The price on the secondary market would have skyrocketed, and you as a newbie would be looking at shelling out $80-120 for one mini just to have a Vader - which even worse, you'd probably need to play in a tournament if Imps were your favorite faction. Now this one I agree with. However, 5 or 6 Vader's still would have done the trick, Not 10. billiv15 wrote:As to the Rodian issue, well who knows. We could surmise that it was cheaper to use existing design instead of making a new race and just do a simple repose, but honestly, who cares. I do, and from the look's of it so do other people. This topic would never have been an issue at all over the year's this game has been in production. billiv15 wrote:We never got close to having all the things every RPG GM would want, so to me, this seems like a very minor issue. Most people I know on here wouldn't agree with this one either. I think it's much more than a minor issue. Again this wouldn't be a topic of discussion like it has been in way too many threads over the years. We never would have gotten close to all the thing's a GM would want. Even if Wotc made this game for another 15 to 20 years. SW is to vast of an Empire for that. billiv15 wrote:I've got more than enough minis between myself, and my friends to recreate what I want from an RPG - and in terms of needing a female whatever - well, I talk to real females so I find little need to play one in an RPG :) J/k. Most of us do have enough mini's, even without completing whole set's. However most of my friends chief complaint's stem from VR/R races and very few common ones. I'm not gonna touch the female comment. lol That would be to easy.  Darth Zannah mini in a skimpy bikini outfit would have been cool to see.  Could have done some role play with my beautiful wife as a Dark Lord of the Sith! Guess that idea will have to stay in my head. lol billiv15 wrote:WotC did a lot better with this as time went on, as the "DEMAND" went up for RPG stuff. We probably would have gotten a lot more good stuff over the next few years, but WotC quit on us in order to shore up Magic the Gathering - so what can you do. Ya they did eventually, but then they left us hanging for some lame card game. *cough* not worth the card board they are printed on. *cough* billiv15 wrote:As for V-sets (I know this wasn't a major issue here - just wanted to add the advertisement) - while we aren't going to be able to add new figures, we are going to focus on the minor factions and uncreated uniques. We will still do remakes of iconic figures from time to time, but since we don't have to sell anything, we aren't going to do nearly as many WotC did. I think you will see a nice mix actually, which is probably more in line with what game players would have wanted all along. That would be nice to see.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/29/2009 Posts: 500 Location: Nebraska
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Sithborg wrote:To be fair to Wizards, they did improve a LOT after TFU. Only 2 sets had 2 of the same character in the same set. You have to appeal to a broad market, and sadly, the EU stuff isn't as well known.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/28/2008 Posts: 355 Location: Newark, OH, USA
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billiv15 wrote:... WotC always said they wanted to sell to "collectors" and acted as if this was their largest market share - and those people apparently wanted a mix of things - including each main in their various outfits.
... But imagine being a new player (or one getting interested) and you bought a few boosters of the newest set - and it contained all EU characters you've never heard of. You quit buying right then and there. And worse, let's say there were only 3 Vaders. ...
As to the Rodian issue, well who knows. We could surmise that it was cheaper to use existing design instead of making a new race and just do a simple repose, but honestly, who cares. ... Just to add to these ideas. The way I see the various audiences, RPGers need a handful of pieces (not 900) to run the various scenarios. Skirmish gamers need, at a minimum, 30-40% of the pieces ever made to play in tourneys locally. Number is probably higher as some pieces that were once competitive are not any longer. We collectors have a disease and think we 'need' all 900 plus more. LOL Having the various outfits is appealing and they hit the collector target audience on that one. Hindsight is 20/20, but they may not have had the perfect balance for the three main groups of buyers. I agree the iconic characters need to be in most of the sets to draw new blood. My only complaint now, and at the time, is three versions of the same character in the same set. (Luke in TFU and A&E, Grievous in ROTS, Han in A&E, etc.) But, it is what it is (or was). It would have been nicer to have some other head swapped alien race than another Rodian head on various pieces though. Wookiees ended up in different factions so they didn't seem so bad, but the Fringe pieces where race really didn't matter seemed to always be Rodian, Twilek, Human, or Trandoshan. Races to depict some of the Unique characters not made (or even to go along with ones they did) would have been nice for collectors especially. But again, it is what it is. If we didn't complain about something, we would not be proper SW fans.
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