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Bob Chizo wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:Versatility:
If Han or Leia use the Versatility special ability to choose a new version and they are then defeated, which version can no longer be used? The version with Versatility (which was originally in the squad) or the version that was on the board when they were defeated? I'm inclined to say the Versatility version would be defeated, but I could see the argument for either side. What do you think?
(Look for other questions like this - edge cases we may have not thought about yet. The more of these that answered now, the better. It would be harder to answer these questions during the campaign.)
Yep, go with the version that was defeated, not the version that started. Along the same lines: If Han in Carbonite is used, and then dethawed in a match, can Han in Carbonite be used again if they win? If they lose? What if the Rebels lose before Han is dethawed, does the version that he was representing get considered defeated? On Versatility, I had said that the version that started should be the one that couldn't be re-used. The defeated version could be re-used. But I could go either way on that decision. Anyone else want to chime in? I've never seen anyone use Han in Carbonite in a real match, so I hadn't thought of it. For thematic reasons, I'd say that Han in Carbonite could be used exactly one time, no more than that - on the assumption that he woudn't be frozen and re-thawed repeatedly. If the thawed character were then defeated - gah! I don't know what I'd say in that case. We could just say the version on the battlegrid when it's defeated is the one that can't be re-used. That would answer the question for Versatility and Han in Carbonite at the same time. Not sure the best answer here, but I do think it's important to write it down now instead of deciding during the campaign.
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FlyingArrow wrote:Bob Chizo wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:Versatility:
If Han or Leia use the Versatility special ability to choose a new version and they are then defeated, which version can no longer be used? The version with Versatility (which was originally in the squad) or the version that was on the board when they were defeated? I'm inclined to say the Versatility version would be defeated, but I could see the argument for either side. What do you think?
(Look for other questions like this - edge cases we may have not thought about yet. The more of these that answered now, the better. It would be harder to answer these questions during the campaign.)
Yep, go with the version that was defeated, not the version that started. Along the same lines: If Han in Carbonite is used, and then dethawed in a match, can Han in Carbonite be used again if they win? If they lose? What if the Rebels lose before Han is dethawed, does the version that he was representing get considered defeated? On Versatility, I had said that the version that started should be the one that couldn't be re-used. The defeated version could be re-used. But I could go either way on that decision. Anyone else want to chime in? I've never seen anyone use Han in Carbonite in a real match, so I hadn't thought of it. For thematic reasons, I'd say that Han in Carbonite could be used exactly one time, no more than that - on the assumption that he woudn't be frozen and re-thawed repeatedly. If the thawed character were then defeated - gah! I don't know what I'd say in that case. We could just say the version on the battlegrid when it's defeated is the one that can't be re-used. That would answer the question for Versatility and Han in Carbonite at the same time. Not sure the best answer here, but I do think it's important to write it down now instead of deciding during the campaign. Why are u interested on using Popsicle Han
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knappskirata wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:Bob Chizo wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:Versatility:
If Han or Leia use the Versatility special ability to choose a new version and they are then defeated, which version can no longer be used? The version with Versatility (which was originally in the squad) or the version that was on the board when they were defeated? I'm inclined to say the Versatility version would be defeated, but I could see the argument for either side. What do you think?
(Look for other questions like this - edge cases we may have not thought about yet. The more of these that answered now, the better. It would be harder to answer these questions during the campaign.)
Yep, go with the version that was defeated, not the version that started. Along the same lines: If Han in Carbonite is used, and then dethawed in a match, can Han in Carbonite be used again if they win? If they lose? What if the Rebels lose before Han is dethawed, does the version that he was representing get considered defeated? On Versatility, I had said that the version that started should be the one that couldn't be re-used. The defeated version could be re-used. But I could go either way on that decision. Anyone else want to chime in? I've never seen anyone use Han in Carbonite in a real match, so I hadn't thought of it. For thematic reasons, I'd say that Han in Carbonite could be used exactly one time, no more than that - on the assumption that he woudn't be frozen and re-thawed repeatedly. If the thawed character were then defeated - gah! I don't know what I'd say in that case. We could just say the version on the battlegrid when it's defeated is the one that can't be re-used. That would answer the question for Versatility and Han in Carbonite at the same time. Not sure the best answer here, but I do think it's important to write it down now instead of deciding during the campaign. Why are u interested on using Popsicle Han It's a cheap way to get a version of Han Solo, and the only way to get Han Solo, Galactic Hero in a Rebel squad.
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Bob Chizo wrote:knappskirata wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:Bob Chizo wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:Versatility:
If Han or Leia use the Versatility special ability to choose a new version and they are then defeated, which version can no longer be used? The version with Versatility (which was originally in the squad) or the version that was on the board when they were defeated? I'm inclined to say the Versatility version would be defeated, but I could see the argument for either side. What do you think?
(Look for other questions like this - edge cases we may have not thought about yet. The more of these that answered now, the better. It would be harder to answer these questions during the campaign.)
Yep, go with the version that was defeated, not the version that started. Along the same lines: If Han in Carbonite is used, and then dethawed in a match, can Han in Carbonite be used again if they win? If they lose? What if the Rebels lose before Han is dethawed, does the version that he was representing get considered defeated? On Versatility, I had said that the version that started should be the one that couldn't be re-used. The defeated version could be re-used. But I could go either way on that decision. Anyone else want to chime in? I've never seen anyone use Han in Carbonite in a real match, so I hadn't thought of it. For thematic reasons, I'd say that Han in Carbonite could be used exactly one time, no more than that - on the assumption that he woudn't be frozen and re-thawed repeatedly. If the thawed character were then defeated - gah! I don't know what I'd say in that case. We could just say the version on the battlegrid when it's defeated is the one that can't be re-used. That would answer the question for Versatility and Han in Carbonite at the same time. Not sure the best answer here, but I do think it's important to write it down now instead of deciding during the campaign. Why are u interested on using Popsicle Han It's a cheap way to get a version of Han Solo, and the only way to get Han Solo, Galactic Hero in a Rebel squad. I'm fairly certain Han in Carbonite can't be used to bring Han, GH Into a Rebel squad.
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AndyHatton wrote:Bob Chizo wrote:knappskirata wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:Bob Chizo wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:Versatility:
If Han or Leia use the Versatility special ability to choose a new version and they are then defeated, which version can no longer be used? The version with Versatility (which was originally in the squad) or the version that was on the board when they were defeated? I'm inclined to say the Versatility version would be defeated, but I could see the argument for either side. What do you think?
(Look for other questions like this - edge cases we may have not thought about yet. The more of these that answered now, the better. It would be harder to answer these questions during the campaign.)
Yep, go with the version that was defeated, not the version that started. Along the same lines: If Han in Carbonite is used, and then dethawed in a match, can Han in Carbonite be used again if they win? If they lose? What if the Rebels lose before Han is dethawed, does the version that he was representing get considered defeated? On Versatility, I had said that the version that started should be the one that couldn't be re-used. The defeated version could be re-used. But I could go either way on that decision. Anyone else want to chime in? I've never seen anyone use Han in Carbonite in a real match, so I hadn't thought of it. For thematic reasons, I'd say that Han in Carbonite could be used exactly one time, no more than that - on the assumption that he woudn't be frozen and re-thawed repeatedly. If the thawed character were then defeated - gah! I don't know what I'd say in that case. We could just say the version on the battlegrid when it's defeated is the one that can't be re-used. That would answer the question for Versatility and Han in Carbonite at the same time. Not sure the best answer here, but I do think it's important to write it down now instead of deciding during the campaign. Why are u interested on using Popsicle Han It's a cheap way to get a version of Han Solo, and the only way to get Han Solo, Galactic Hero in a Rebel squad. I'm fairly certain Han in Carbonite can't be used to bring Han, GH Into a Rebel squad. Glossary Text: This character has a variable point cost (X). During squad construction, choose any other version of Han Solo. This character's cost is one-half the printed cost of the chosen character. An opponent sets up this character along with his or her squad. This character cannot be activated, cannot move, and is not a legal target. It counts as an object rather than a character; its space cannot be entered, but it provides cover. It does not count for scoring or accomplishing objectives. If all characters in your squad without Frozen in Carbonite are defeated, this character is also defeated. If an ally ends its turn adjacent to it, you may immediately remove this character from play and place the chosen Han Solo character in its space. The newly placed character is treated as having been activated this round. The newly placed character is worth half its printed cost in victory points if defeated.
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Bob Chizo wrote:AndyHatton wrote:Bob Chizo wrote:knappskirata wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:Bob Chizo wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:Versatility:
If Han or Leia use the Versatility special ability to choose a new version and they are then defeated, which version can no longer be used? The version with Versatility (which was originally in the squad) or the version that was on the board when they were defeated? I'm inclined to say the Versatility version would be defeated, but I could see the argument for either side. What do you think?
(Look for other questions like this - edge cases we may have not thought about yet. The more of these that answered now, the better. It would be harder to answer these questions during the campaign.)
Yep, go with the version that was defeated, not the version that started. Along the same lines: If Han in Carbonite is used, and then dethawed in a match, can Han in Carbonite be used again if they win? If they lose? What if the Rebels lose before Han is dethawed, does the version that he was representing get considered defeated? On Versatility, I had said that the version that started should be the one that couldn't be re-used. The defeated version could be re-used. But I could go either way on that decision. Anyone else want to chime in? I've never seen anyone use Han in Carbonite in a real match, so I hadn't thought of it. For thematic reasons, I'd say that Han in Carbonite could be used exactly one time, no more than that - on the assumption that he woudn't be frozen and re-thawed repeatedly. If the thawed character were then defeated - gah! I don't know what I'd say in that case. We could just say the version on the battlegrid when it's defeated is the one that can't be re-used. That would answer the question for Versatility and Han in Carbonite at the same time. Not sure the best answer here, but I do think it's important to write it down now instead of deciding during the campaign. Why are u interested on using Popsicle Han It's a cheap way to get a version of Han Solo, and the only way to get Han Solo, Galactic Hero in a Rebel squad. I'm fairly certain Han in Carbonite can't be used to bring Han, GH Into a Rebel squad. Glossary Text: This character has a variable point cost (X). During squad construction, choose any other version of Han Solo. This character's cost is one-half the printed cost of the chosen character. An opponent sets up this character along with his or her squad. This character cannot be activated, cannot move, and is not a legal target. It counts as an object rather than a character; its space cannot be entered, but it provides cover. It does not count for scoring or accomplishing objectives. If all characters in your squad without Frozen in Carbonite are defeated, this character is also defeated. If an ally ends its turn adjacent to it, you may immediately remove this character from play and place the chosen Han Solo character in its space. The newly placed character is treated as having been activated this round. The newly placed character is worth half its printed cost in victory points if defeated. From the FAQQ: Can the Han that is not on the board be a Han Solo of any faction? A: No. You follow the normal faction rules for both Han Solo characters. Abilities that break the faction rules will explicitly say "of any faction" or similar.
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Re: Han in Carbonite
AndyHatton's right about the FAQ. Regardless, for this campaign, you can't bring in out-of-faction characters anyway. This is from the rules on the first page, but it was a late addition so I wanted to emphasize it:
Reinforcements, Reserves, Affinity, etc.
There are a number of ways to bend squad-building rules: Reinforcements, Reserves, Affinity, and commander effects that allow characters from other factions to be part of the squad. For all of these abilities, you may assume that a Rebel character can bring in any Rebel character, and an Imperial character can bring in any Imperial character. However, for other factions or Fringe characters, you are limited to the pieces that are allocated to you.
Examples: Characters with Order 66 cannot be brought into Imperial squads. Lobot's Reinforcements and Reserves are severely limited (only the characters that have been allocated to the player). Garm Bel Iblis Reinforcements can bring in any Rebels - not just those allocated to the player - but cannot bring in any New Republic pieces. Admiral Ozzel can bring in any Imperial pieces with Reserves, even those not allocated to the player. Grand Admiral Rulf Yage can include any non-unique Imperial troopers and pilots, even those not allocated to the player, but may not include any Sith pieces.
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AndyHatton wrote:Bob Chizo wrote:AndyHatton wrote:Bob Chizo wrote:knappskirata wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:Bob Chizo wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:Versatility:
If Han or Leia use the Versatility special ability to choose a new version and they are then defeated, which version can no longer be used? The version with Versatility (which was originally in the squad) or the version that was on the board when they were defeated? I'm inclined to say the Versatility version would be defeated, but I could see the argument for either side. What do you think?
(Look for other questions like this - edge cases we may have not thought about yet. The more of these that answered now, the better. It would be harder to answer these questions during the campaign.)
Yep, go with the version that was defeated, not the version that started. Along the same lines: If Han in Carbonite is used, and then dethawed in a match, can Han in Carbonite be used again if they win? If they lose? What if the Rebels lose before Han is dethawed, does the version that he was representing get considered defeated? On Versatility, I had said that the version that started should be the one that couldn't be re-used. The defeated version could be re-used. But I could go either way on that decision. Anyone else want to chime in? I've never seen anyone use Han in Carbonite in a real match, so I hadn't thought of it. For thematic reasons, I'd say that Han in Carbonite could be used exactly one time, no more than that - on the assumption that he woudn't be frozen and re-thawed repeatedly. If the thawed character were then defeated - gah! I don't know what I'd say in that case. We could just say the version on the battlegrid when it's defeated is the one that can't be re-used. That would answer the question for Versatility and Han in Carbonite at the same time. Not sure the best answer here, but I do think it's important to write it down now instead of deciding during the campaign. Why are u interested on using Popsicle Han It's a cheap way to get a version of Han Solo, and the only way to get Han Solo, Galactic Hero in a Rebel squad. I'm fairly certain Han in Carbonite can't be used to bring Han, GH Into a Rebel squad. Glossary Text: This character has a variable point cost (X). During squad construction, choose any other version of Han Solo. This character's cost is one-half the printed cost of the chosen character. An opponent sets up this character along with his or her squad. This character cannot be activated, cannot move, and is not a legal target. It counts as an object rather than a character; its space cannot be entered, but it provides cover. It does not count for scoring or accomplishing objectives. If all characters in your squad without Frozen in Carbonite are defeated, this character is also defeated. If an ally ends its turn adjacent to it, you may immediately remove this character from play and place the chosen Han Solo character in its space. The newly placed character is treated as having been activated this round. The newly placed character is worth half its printed cost in victory points if defeated. From the FAQQ: Can the Han that is not on the board be a Han Solo of any faction? A: No. You follow the normal faction rules for both Han Solo characters. Abilities that break the faction rules will explicitly say "of any faction" or similar. Dang it, my favorite loophole has just been knotted up. 
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FlyingArrow wrote:Re: Han in Carbonite
AndyHatton's right about the FAQ. Regardless, for this campaign, you can't bring in out-of-faction characters anyway. This is from the rules on the first page, but it was a late addition so I wanted to emphasize it:
Reinforcements, Reserves, Affinity, etc.
There are a number of ways to bend squad-building rules: Reinforcements, Reserves, Affinity, and commander effects that allow characters from other factions to be part of the squad. For all of these abilities, you may assume that a Rebel character can bring in any Rebel character, and an Imperial character can bring in any Imperial character. However, for other factions or Fringe characters, you are limited to the pieces that are allocated to you.
Examples: Characters with Order 66 cannot be brought into Imperial squads. Lobot's Reinforcements and Reserves are severely limited (only the characters that have been allocated to the player). Garm Bel Iblis Reinforcements can bring in any Rebels - not just those allocated to the player - but cannot bring in any New Republic pieces. Admiral Ozzel can bring in any Imperial pieces with Reserves, even those not allocated to the player. Grand Admiral Rulf Yage can include any non-unique Imperial troopers and pilots, even those not allocated to the player, but may not include any Sith pieces. Thanks, this part on Reinforcements confused me.  But no longer. 
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Bah! I just realized I completely messed up Kazdan Paratus. The Reinforcements, Reserves, Affinity rule was put in place to make everything more thematic. It's Rebels vs Imperials and each side slowly earns loyalty of some Fringe characters/races. So for Fringe pieces you can only use what you've been allocated for Reserves, etc. After all, most Fringe has no loyalty to you. But you can use anything within your own faction when you have that ability - these are commanders with special connections (e.g. Ozzel and Garm).
Also, if Fringe Reinforcements let you bring in whatever you wanted, that would be way too powerful in this format. There are some powerful Fringe pieces that won't even be made available through Fringe Bonuses. If a side wins a Fringe Bonus piece that has Reserves/Reinforcements (Lobot and Jabba), they'll also get some other Fringe pieces with them (Bespin/Gamorreans/Weequay), so there will always be something that they can bring in, even if it's not good.
But Kazdan literally can't use anything for his Reserves based on that rule except a few non-combat droids - and then only if they aren't used in the main squad. We didn't even make any droids into Fringe Bonuses so that they might be used in later rounds. Sorry for missing this. What do you think we should do about this?
a. Nothing - Kazdan is totally nerfed, but just leave it.
b. Make Kazdan an exception - he can use anything.
c. Make up a standard set of reinforcements for Kazdan Paratus - he can only use that as his reinforcements. If so, what do you recommend?
My vote is (c). I'd say Junk Golem + 2 Battle Droids. Again, sorry for not catching all of the edge cases.
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FlyingArrow wrote:Bah! I just realized I completely messed up Kazdan Paratus. The Reinforcements, Reserves, Affinity rule was put in place to make everything more thematic. It's Rebels vs Imperials and each side slowly earns loyalty of some Fringe characters/races. So for Fringe pieces you can only use what you've been allocated for Reserves, etc. After all, most Fringe has no loyalty to you. But you can use anything within your own faction when you have that ability - these are commanders with special connections (e.g. Ozzel and Garm).
Also, if Fringe Reinforcements let you bring in whatever you wanted, that would be way too powerful in this format. There are some powerful Fringe pieces that won't even be made available through Fringe Bonuses. If a side wins a Fringe Bonus piece that has Reserves/Reinforcements (Lobot and Jabba), they'll also get some other Fringe pieces with them (Bespin/Gamorreans/Weequay), so there will always be something that they can bring in, even if it's not good.
But Kazdan literally can't use anything for his Reserves based on that rule except a few non-combat droids - and then only if they aren't used in the main squad. We didn't even make any droids into Fringe Bonuses so that they might be used in later rounds. Sorry for missing this. What do you think we should do about this?
a. Nothing - Kazdan is totally nerfed, but just leave it.
b. Make Kazdan an exception - he can use anything.
c. Make up a standard set of reinforcements for Kazdan Paratus - he can only use that as his reinforcements. If so, what do you recommend?
My vote is (c). I'd say Junk Golem + 2 Battle Droids. Again, sorry for not catching all of the edge cases. c. Your choice wouldn't work (Junk Golem is 23, and 2 Battle Droids is 8, so the total is 31).
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Bob Chizo wrote:c. Your choice wouldn't work (Junk Golem is 23, and 2 Battle Droids is 8, so the total is 31). Junk Golem has Rapport -1 with Kazdan. That was part of why I chose the Junk Golem - since he seems paired with Kazdan. I haven't played the game, but I guess that's one of the droids Kazdan 'animated'.
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FlyingArrow wrote:Bob Chizo wrote:c. Your choice wouldn't work (Junk Golem is 23, and 2 Battle Droids is 8, so the total is 31). Junk Golem has Rapport -1 with Kazdan. That was part of why I chose the Junk Golem - since he seems paired with Kazdan. I haven't played the game, but I guess that's one of the droids Kazdan 'animated'. Gah! I always miss Rapport...  Yes, in the game that is one of Kazdan's many droid guardians.
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FlyingArrow wrote:Bah! I just realized I completely messed up Kazdan Paratus. The Reinforcements, Reserves, Affinity rule was put in place to make everything more thematic. It's Rebels vs Imperials and each side slowly earns loyalty of some Fringe characters/races. So for Fringe pieces you can only use what you've been allocated for Reserves, etc. After all, most Fringe has no loyalty to you. But you can use anything within your own faction when you have that ability - these are commanders with special connections (e.g. Ozzel and Garm).
Also, if Fringe Reinforcements let you bring in whatever you wanted, that would be way too powerful in this format. There are some powerful Fringe pieces that won't even be made available through Fringe Bonuses. If a side wins a Fringe Bonus piece that has Reserves/Reinforcements (Lobot and Jabba), they'll also get some other Fringe pieces with them (Bespin/Gamorreans/Weequay), so there will always be something that they can bring in, even if it's not good.
But Kazdan literally can't use anything for his Reserves based on that rule except a few non-combat droids - and then only if they aren't used in the main squad. We didn't even make any droids into Fringe Bonuses so that they might be used in later rounds. Sorry for missing this. What do you think we should do about this?
a. Nothing - Kazdan is totally nerfed, but just leave it.
b. Make Kazdan an exception - he can use anything.
c. Make up a standard set of reinforcements for Kazdan Paratus - he can only use that as his reinforcements. If so, what do you recommend?
My vote is (c). I'd say Junk Golem + 2 Battle Droids. Again, sorry for not catching all of the edge cases. There's also (d), where Kazdan gains access to just a few pieces and can choose Reserves from that set, but isn't restricted to only that set. I'd actually go with that. Not everyone will have a Junk Golem, so 7 Battle Droids would also be an option.
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Rule Change:
Penalty
If two players fail to play their skirmish by the deadline, neither player may receive any allocation for the next round.
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We originally had a penalty that said all Uniques are defeated when players don't get their games in. That penalty is removed. It was intended to get people to play their games, but it could lead to some bad incentives. For example, if you know your opponent has Rieekan, then you might try to avoid playing just so that Rieekan dies. The new penalty only affects the players - not the whole team. If you don't play your game for a round, you don't get any 'fun' pieces for the next round.
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I didn't see votes on these issues, so I'm going to go with what I think is the best option so that we have the rules in place before tomorrow's launch. No real surprises here - it's the same as was proposed above. I hope there are no objections.
* Kazdan Paratus comes with Junk Golem and Battle Droids as options he can bring in with his Reserves. That way it's not useless, but he also can't bring in the more powerful droids.
* If a character is replaced (Frozen in Carbonite, Versatility), and the new version is defeated, the defeated version is the one that may not be re-used. The original version may be re-used.
* For thematic reasons, Han in Carbonite may only be used once.
Hopefully there aren't any other weird cases that we've missed.
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On the Planet representation question. Does our SC give them out us or is it first come first served? If so and its on Vassal I want Khoonda (Dantooine) 
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If I were to be allocated Kazdan, I know I wouldn't want him to be nerfed. My vote if there is one, would be for option b.
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CerousMutor wrote:On the Planet representation question. Does our SC give them out us or is it first come first served? If so and its on Vassal I want Khoonda (Dantooine) If you are asking what map you play on each round, the SCs decide that (quoting the rules here): "Each round, the Supreme Commander assigns a set of characters to each player in their faction. Players make squads using only their assigned characters. (Players do not have to use all of the assigned characters – in many cases that would be impossible anyway.) The Supreme Commanders also determine which maps the players will play on as follows: Round 1: Imperial Supreme Commander selects maps and assigns one to each player in his faction. Round 2: Rebel Supreme Commander selects maps and assigns one to each player in his faction. Round 3: Imperial Supreme Commander selects maps and assigns one to each player in his faction. Round 4: Rebel Supreme Commander selects maps and assigns one to each player in his faction. Round 5: Imperial Supreme Commander selects maps and assigns one to each player in his faction. Round 6: Rebel Supreme Commander selects maps and assigns one to each player in his faction." You're a Rebel and the Imperial SC makes the map decisions this round, so whatever map shmi15 chose, that's what you'll play on. I had posted another question about planet representation... thematically this is a war with key battles taking place on planets all over the galaxy. If you have a favorite planet that you want represented in the war, just let me know and I'll edit the map list to indicate that some map represents the planet you suggest. This doesn't affect the game in any way. The maps and rules work exactly the same regardless of what planet we say each map represents - it's just for fun.
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FlyingArrow wrote:UNIQUES Major Maxmillian Veers Veers (3 versions) Why is Veers listed twice?
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