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atmsalad
Posted: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 6:57:16 PM
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Hello everybody!!

The Balance Team is in full swing and we are looking for serious talking points and we need your help. ThumbsUp What we need from you is your 3 best suggestions for possible changes. We are looking for things that seriously impact "Competitive SWM" in a negative way. These can be specific characters, floor rules and even game rules.

Please include a brief synopsis of your reasoning and what a positive change could bring. BigGrin Keep in mind that we all have a different definition of what is good or bad for the game. Regardless of the suggestion and our personal feelings we will do our utmost to look at your suggestions under an unbiased microscope. ThumbsUp

Thank you all in advance for helping us to Keep SWM great... again. ThumpUp Bomb Cursing
Caedus
Posted: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 7:15:16 PM
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3720-1 If any Unique Rebel character in your squad is missed by an attack, all Unique Rebel characters in your squad gain Cloaked for the rest of the round.

I have no problem with the ability OTHER than, IMO, it should read; If any Unique Rebel character in your squad is missed by a NON Adjacent attack, all Unique Rebel characters in your squad gain Cloaked for the rest of the round. Just my opinion. I like the ability, but it makes absolutely no sense that an adjacent enemy miss could trigger this. Not a huge change, but as practical one IMO.
TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 8:23:04 PM
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Caedus wrote:
3720-1 If any Unique Rebel character in your squad is missed by an attack, all Unique Rebel characters in your squad gain Cloaked for the rest of the round.

I have no problem with the ability OTHER than, IMO, it should read; If any Unique Rebel character in your squad is missed by a NON Adjacent attack, all Unique Rebel characters in your squad gain Cloaked for the rest of the round. Just my opinion. I like the ability, but it makes absolutely no sense that an adjacent enemy miss could trigger this. Not a huge change, but as practical one IMO.


As far as the ability - I agree, but I would add a range - Unique rebels within 6 of C-3PO.


BUT - to be honest - Threepio is ridiculously stacked. I think the simplest change would be to just drop the ability. He's easily worth 12 without it.

If we were to simply adjust the cost - I would put him at about 22-24
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2017 8:42:19 AM
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Just a general comment (and obviously just my opinion) - as much as possible, balance committee decisions should avoid changes that require changes to the cards. In order:

1. Where possible, leave things alone. Many apparent problems can and are addressed through future designs. Things that seem to have no counter get counters and things come into better balance.

2. Floor rules. A ban list or a slight change to how tournaments are run. Minimum 3 point cost via Rapport. 10 point gambit. Good calls, and they didn't require any errata cards.

3. Glossary change. If the rule change is minor enough that it can be addressed in the glossary of an ability and still fit with what's on the card - great. No card errata needed.

4. Cost change. If a change is made to a card, this is by far the one that causes the least confusion among players, and any piece can be given a cost such that it isn't broken.

5. Change a character or ability. If none of the above options can solve a problem, only then consider changing the text of a card.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2017 8:53:42 AM
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Not sure if it's part of the Balance Committee's charge, but I'd revisit 3-2-1 scoring. Either have record be the first criteria (and just use points scored as a tiebreaker), or change 3-2-1 scoring to 5-4-1 scoring - which would have just about the same effect. Currently, a player could go 3-1 (7 points) and lose out to someone that they beat and who is 2-2 (8 points). Just seems crazy to me.

Along those same lines, with the introduction of 10 point gambit, it is now possible for someone to play without stalling, be on track to eliminate the opponent's entire squad, have a huge advantage on the board, but still lose the game due to their opponent's score+gambit reaching 200 first. Gambit points should be awarded all at once at the conclusion of the game. Either after one player completely eliminates the other player, after one player concedes, or after time is up. This could lead to the winner having more points than the loser - for example, if the winner eliminates the other squad without gaining gambit but the loser has 5 gambit rounds. But that's fine. First winning criteria should be eliminating the other squad - if either side can do that in the time limit, let them. If neither can, use gambit to help determine the winner.

Not sure either of these fall under the purview of the balance committee, but I thought I'd mention them here.
atmsalad
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2017 9:12:15 AM
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Good suggestions everyone, keep them coming. Also, please try to limit your comments on others posts. If there is a topic you wish to discuss in detail please start a new thread :)

Just to add my opinion, although keeping design intent is valuable, if the decision comes down to keep designer intent or make a change for the good of the game, I will always choose the good of the game. Everytime...
jen'ari
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2017 9:41:55 AM
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Since blastbugs, activation control, and booming voice are all already being considered..

1. Lightsaber counts as melee.
It hurts STAPLE possibly competitive pieces such as Cin Drallig (and his followers), Jarael, Sidious, Luke, etc.
Also Lightsabers are the core foundation for Star Wars battles and should be accurately played and it will be easier for new players to learn the game.

2. Gambit points. I think you should only get Gambit points if you are in Gambit and your opponent is not.
This will limit the points a team can get and virtually stop the "I won because I got 200 pts first" because their gambit is not adding up. You can be in Gambit for 6 rounds and the opponent in Gambit for 4 rounds and only get 20 Gambit.
I won on 200 points first and it was a shallow win, we had plenty of time to finish.

3. 3720 to 1. I think it should read If any Unique Rebel character in your squad is missed by an attack, that character gains Cloaked for the rest of the round.

I think the area effect is too much. This also makes it so that adjacent attacks do not matter. If I run up and hack with twin and miss the first and you gain cloaked, who cares I am adjacent
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2017 9:44:36 AM
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Booming voice no longer needs to exist.

gambit should be the player with the higher costing piece in gambit gets the gambit.
jen'ari
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2017 9:46:56 AM
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
Booming voice no longer needs to exist.

gambit should be the player with the higher costing piece in gambit gets the gambit.


that is in awesome idea bro, highest piece in gambti gets the gambit. YES! so no more little pawsn in Gambit and that is all. Yes, that is Perfect. awards to melee mostly.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2017 10:16:10 AM
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3720 to 1: Leave unchanged or ban Threepio.

Blast Bugs: Did we already get a new card for the Subcommander after his cost increase? I forget. If so, leave unchanged or ban the Subcommander. If not, another cost increase won't really hurt anything. He could cost could go up another 10 and I wouldn't mind.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2017 10:19:54 AM
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jen'ari wrote:
Deaths_Baine wrote:
Booming voice no longer needs to exist.

gambit should be the player with the higher costing piece in gambit gets the gambit.


that is in awesome idea bro, highest piece in gambti gets the gambit. YES! so no more little pawsn in Gambit and that is all. Yes, that is Perfect. awards to melee mostly.



I only have good ideas.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2017 10:20:06 AM
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Quote:
Why Aren't You at Your Post? [When this character would be defeated by an enemy, replace this character with a character named Luke Skywalker in Stormtrooper Armor instead. The new character is considered activated and joins the opponent's squad until the end of the skirmish.]


This was never intended to permanently turn off squad-building bonuses like Talon Karrde's, but the rule is that Karrde's bonuses (and some others bonuses similar to his) wouldn't come back on after Luke's defeat. Easy fix is a glossary entry that says that taking Luke into your squad is optional. Most squads would take Luke (hey - free attacker and minor movement breaker), but Talon and others that rely on a squadbuilding bonus would decline.

Quote:
Glossary: When this character would be defeated by an enemy, replace this character with a character named Luke Skywalker in Stormtrooper Armor instead. The new character is considered activated and joins the opponent's squad until the end of the skirmish. The opponent may choose to decline the new character, in which case Luke Skywalker in Stormtrooper Armor is not placed on the board and neither player gains victory points for this character's defeat.
jak
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2017 12:04:28 PM
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hello
my name is Booming Voice, I was a race horse on Safrenta II back when the Sith rules the galaxy.
Since I've died, I have been beaten very loudly, and with little results.
I was whipped less when I was actively racing, and my jockey was a mean a$$ Dug.
please refrain from beating my poor horsey body.
I worked hard in life, and my corpse doesn't deserve this kind of abuse.

any more abuse will be reported to the GSPCDA*




Galactic Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Dead Animals




Deaths_Baine
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2017 12:26:31 PM
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jak wrote:
hello
my name is Booming Voice, I was a race horse on Safrenta II back when the Sith rules the galaxy.
Since I've died, I have been beaten very loudly, and with little results.
I was whipped less when I was actively racing, and my jockey was a mean a$$ Dug.
please refrain from beating my poor horsey body.
I worked hard in life, and my corpse doesn't deserve this kind of abuse.

any more abuse will be reported to the GSPCDA*




Galactic Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Dead Animals





Hmmm... I'm not sure how to take this post.... like are we supposed to give up? Are you saying it should have been changed so it has been beaten over and over? Are you saying booming voice should exist with no changes etc?
atmsalad
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2017 12:30:33 PM
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Please create a new thread to talk about booming voice
TimmerB123
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2017 2:35:12 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
3720 to 1: Leave unchanged or ban Threepio.


Well that's an easy choice. Most broken character since the original Daala. Ban him
TheHutts
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2017 2:36:32 PM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
3720 to 1: Leave unchanged or ban Threepio.


Well that's an easy choice. Most broken character since the original Daala. Ban him


Commando Droid Officer was worse, surely?
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2017 2:46:53 PM
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The klat ass was worse
TimmerB123
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2017 2:53:50 PM
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I stand by my statement. It badly hurts non-melee AND melee. Diplomat with distraction is just brutal to melee.

Regardless, even if it's on par with 2 of the figures that were broken and had to be changed - well that speaks for itself.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2017 2:59:34 PM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
I stand by my statement. It badly hurts non-melee AND melee. Diplomat with distraction is just brutal to melee.

Regardless, even if it's on par with 2 of the figures that were broken and had to be changed - well that speaks for itself.




You sir have persuaded me. Where do I sign the petition to get it changed
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