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Poll Question : What house rule should I use to "fix" GOWK?
Choice Votes Statistics
Get rid of Mettle 14 34.146341 %
Get rid of MotF 2 5 12.195121 %
SSM: +4 Def. and -10 dmg. from attacks 1 2.439024 %
SSM: No dmg. from nonadjacent attacks, save 6 2 4.878048 %
SSM: No dmg. nonadjacent save 6; adjacent save 16 1 2.439024 %
Other 18 43.902439 %

Help me pimp my GOWK Options
Rabid Wookiee
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:10:10 AM
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Joined: 8/26/2008
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Location: Houston, TX
I love the idea and flavor of GOWK quite a bit, but obviously he's just a bit too hard to kill. And while I don't play competitively, my play group has banned the mini. As such, I'd like to implement a house rule/errata, so that GOWK can be reinstated within my group. Given that context, which of the listed house rule fixes do you guys like best?

1. Get rid of Mettle

2. Get rid of MotF 2

3. Change Soresu Style Master to (+4 Defense and reduce damage from attacks by 10)

4. Change Soresu Style Master to (when hit by a nonadjacent attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 6)

5. Change Soresu Style Master to (when hit by a nonadjacent attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 6; when hit by an adjacent attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 16)

6. Other


IMO, the ideal errata should be simple to implement and understand (straight forward language and fixes to no more than 1 SA or FP), and it should maintain the original "feel" of GOWK. That means the mini should continue to have an ability called Soresu Style Mastery (that accurately reflects the given lightsaber style), and that ability should be better than the regular Soresu Style.

Finally, I must admit that I haven't kept track of all the different suggestions people have given for fixing GOWK. If you have one that completely blows away those I'm considering, please feel free to list it in the thread! Thx!
LandShark
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:16:38 AM
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My solution to fixing GOWK has always been to remove Mettle.
billiv15
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:59:32 AM
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Joined: 4/4/2008
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LandShark wrote:
My solution to fixing GOWK has always been to remove Mettle.


Which does almost nothing. Clearly you have not playtested this, or even done the most basic of math on it.

I suggest, to start with, drop MotF2.

But that isn't quite enough in reality either. Dean suggests then make SSM work on the first 20pts of damage only as well.

GOWK needs a significant reduction in power to be a good mini. There are no simple errata's that both maintain flavor completely, and reduce his power to an acceptable level. It pretty much has to be something drastic like I posted.
defender390
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:04:52 AM
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Other. Let power creep take care of him.
bkchi
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:09:04 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 11/8/2008
Posts: 179
Location: Chicago
defender390 wrote:
Other. Let power creep take care of him.


Agreed. He's not invincible. He starts with 2 Force Points and has FR1. After his Force Points are exhausted he's vulnerable, not to mention Makashi, flame, lightning, other sorts of non-attack offensive abilities.
Mandalore Da Beast
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:19:10 AM
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i say lose mettle.
Mickey
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:19:30 AM
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Joined: 2/9/2009
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I suggested changing the success rate of the Sorensu to 16. It's still a great skill and at that rate of success should chew down force very fast on him.
Rabid Wookiee
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:21:08 AM
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Location: Houston, TX
billiv15 wrote:
LandShark wrote:
My solution to fixing GOWK has always been to remove Mettle.


Which does almost nothing. Clearly you have not playtested this, or even done the most basic of math on it.

I suggest, to start with, drop MotF2.

But that isn't quite enough in reality either. Dean suggests then make SSM work on the first 20pts of damage only as well.

GOWK needs a significant reduction in power to be a good mini. There are no simple errata's that both maintain flavor completely, and reduce his power to an acceptable level. It pretty much has to be something drastic like I posted.


Billiv,

Thanks for the comments! The suggestion about dropping MotF2 and having SSM only effect the first 20pts. of damage is interesting. And while I'm sure it's functional, I was hoping to find a solution that's a bit more "elegant," and requires that only one ability be changed. Perhaps, as you stated, that may not be practical.

BTW: What are your thoughts on option #3? I was hoping that by changing SSM to an ability that's not linked to saves, it might go a long way to fixing the problem. Thx!
EmporerDragon
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:24:39 AM
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My preference would be having the attacker make the SSM save instead which keeps the flavor of the ability, but prevents Kenobi from abusing the MotF/Mettle combo and becoming a tank.
Rabid Wookiee
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:25:41 AM
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Joined: 8/26/2008
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Location: Houston, TX
Mickey wrote:
I suggested changing the success rate of the Sorensu to 16. It's still a great skill and at that rate of success should chew down force very fast on him.


Given that regular soresu style has a save of 11 versus nonadjacent attacks, it seemed strange to make a master ability that wasn't as effective versus those same attacks. However, one option I thought of that I forgot to add to the list was to have SSM save 11 for nonadjacent (like soresu) plus save 16 for adjacent. Thoughts?
defender390
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:30:09 AM
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Joined: 12/7/2008
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bkchi wrote:
defender390 wrote:
Other. Let power creep take care of him.


Agreed. He's not invincible. He starts with 2 Force Points and has FR1. After his Force Points are exhausted he's vulnerable, not to mention Makashi, flame, lightning, other sorts of non-attack offensive abilities.


I bet we will see a lot more pieces with direct damage that will take care of the problem altogether without any errata necessary. He needs to be banned until then, though.
Rabid Wookiee
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:36:50 AM
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Location: Houston, TX
EmporerDragon wrote:
My preference would be having the attacker make the SSM save instead which keeps the flavor of the ability, but prevents Kenobi from abusing the MotF/Mettle combo and becoming a tank.


When creating my list of poll answers, I discounted this idea initially, because I didn't like the idea of the enemy having so much control over SSM (especially with NR Leia out there). But now that you bring it up, I'm kinda liking the idea more. It seems reasonable that jedi (with reroll abilities) should be at an advantage to defeating SSM. It also seems reasonable that NR should be the best at countering the ability--given the faction's multiple characters with counter abilities. I may have to put this suggestion at the top of my list.
bkchi
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:51:32 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 11/8/2008
Posts: 179
Location: Chicago
defender390 wrote:
bkchi wrote:
defender390 wrote:
Other. Let power creep take care of him.


Agreed. He's not invincible. He starts with 2 Force Points and has FR1. After his Force Points are exhausted he's vulnerable, not to mention Makashi, flame, lightning, other sorts of non-attack offensive abilities.


I bet we will see a lot more pieces with direct damage that will take care of the problem altogether without any errata necessary. He needs to be banned until then, though.


Agreed. I would MUCH rather he be banned until the community is ready for him to return in full rather than try to redesign the figure after the fact.
Rabid Wookiee
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:09:30 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 8/26/2008
Posts: 129
Location: Houston, TX
bkchi wrote:
defender390 wrote:
bkchi wrote:
defender390 wrote:
Other. Let power creep take care of him.


Agreed. He's not invincible. He starts with 2 Force Points and has FR1. After his Force Points are exhausted he's vulnerable, not to mention Makashi, flame, lightning, other sorts of non-attack offensive abilities.


I bet we will see a lot more pieces with direct damage that will take care of the problem altogether without any errata necessary. He needs to be banned until then, though.


Agreed. I would MUCH rather he be banned until the community is ready for him to return in full rather than try to redesign the figure after the fact.


LOL Let me steer this discussion back on topic. My newbie SWM playing friends and I own GOWK and would like to use him right now in noncompetitive play amongst ourselves. We'd like a quick and easy fix. This topic was not meant to rehash what's good for the community or how a year from now the GOWK issue will be moot. I don't even suggest that anyone else adopt any of these suggestions. I'd just like a few opinions, so that maybe I can adopt a stopgap within my rather miniscule and sheltered play environment. Flapper Thx!
Mandalore Da Beast
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:12:17 AM
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Makashi is the only answer for him. unfortunately, Dooku has it in not so powerful seperatist faction.
the Jedi Academy set should have had atleast an Imperial answer to Soresu, instead of the NR GMLS. but Mickey is on to something with saving on a melee attack 11, and then saving 16 on a ranged, or vice versa.
Mandalore Da Beast
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:13:37 AM
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Makashi is the only answer for him. unfortunately, Dooku has it in a not so powerful seperatist faction.
the Jedi Academy set should have had atleast an Imperial answer to Soresu, instead of the NR GMLS. but Mickey is on to something with saving on a melee attack 11, and then saving 16 on a ranged, or vice versa.
defender390
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:50:46 AM
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Joined: 12/7/2008
Posts: 396
Rabid Wookiee wrote:
LOLLet me steer this discussion back on topic. My newbie SWM playing friends and I own GOWK and would like to use him right now in noncompetitive play amongst ourselves. We'd like a quick and easy fix. This topic was not meant to rehash what's good for the community or how a year from now the GOWK issue will be moot. I don't even suggest that anyone else adopt any of these suggestions. I'd just like a few opinions, so that maybe I can adopt a stopgap within my rather miniscule and sheltered play environment. Flapper Thx!


Oh, sorry. I missed that the first time. In that case, I would suggest letting the enemy make the saves.
Mandalore Da Beast
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:55:48 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 7/6/2009
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Location: Desintegrating some Djem So Sucka!
never fails....
whenever GOWK is brought up, theres always a debate.
LMAOLOL
i use GOWK on a once every week basis with my buddies Wookie, and they too are NooBs. its fun. just play with him normally, but be fair. NO DESINTERGRATIONS (Meaning no Boba BH), totally not fair.....at all. There is a reason why Obi is banned, and Fetts got alot to do with it.
Robin
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:33:55 PM
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Joined: 10/3/2008
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Location: Gotham City, Wayne Manor
I say just kept him banned. If people like him so much, i think they should make a new obi thats fair.
Opan Windu
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 1:09:42 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 7/16/2008
Posts: 64
Location: Tennessee
My house rules for GOWK are to drop both mettle and MOTF2 then change his cost to an even 50. I know its a big change but it works out all right.
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