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how would everyone feel if you know your friend was "stealing" minis ?! Options
billiv15
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:15:41 PM
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saeseetiin wrote:

Wouldn't that give him up saying all of that I think if he likes the store owner as a freind then tell him something but not that you guys are crazy.


Doing the right thing often is "crazy" :)
Darth O
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:18:23 PM
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billiv15 wrote:
saeseetiin wrote:

Wouldn't that give him up saying all of that I think if he likes the store owner as a freind then tell him something but not that you guys are crazy.


Doing the right thing often is "crazy" :)


That's real touching manBlooMilk
headache62
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:18:28 PM
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billiv15 wrote:

Doing the right thing often is "crazy" :)


And difficult, sometimes the most difficult thing to do - but it is still the right thing to do.
Darth O
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:20:28 PM
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headache62 wrote:
billiv15 wrote:

Doing the right thing often is "crazy" :)


And difficult, sometimes the most difficult thing to do - but it is still the right thing to do.


And remember everyone, always ask, What Would Jesus Do?BlooMilk
saeseetiin
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:24:25 PM
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headache62 wrote:
[quote=billiv15]
Doing the right thing often is "crazy" :)


And difficult, sometimes the most difficult thing to do - but it is still the right thing to do. [/qu

I think your idea of the right thing may very well be the wrong thing to do here. I think the best thing to do is not get involved.
Robin
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:26:19 PM
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Location: Gotham City, Wayne Manor
Darth O wrote:
headache62 wrote:
billiv15 wrote:

Doing the right thing often is "crazy" :)


And difficult, sometimes the most difficult thing to do - but it is still the right thing to do.


And remember everyone, always ask, What Would Jesus Do?BlooMilk


Crying thats touching guys.

What would Jesus do? What the heck, why would you bring a religious point of view into this? You guys might not agree with me maybe some will, but anyways why would you bring a religious point of view in here
Darth O
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:27:40 PM
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saeseetiin wrote:
headache62 wrote:
[quote=billiv15]
Doing the right thing often is "crazy" :)


And difficult, sometimes the most difficult thing to do - but it is still the right thing to do. [/qu

I think your idea of the right thing may very well be the wrong thing to do here. I think the best thing to do is not get involved.


Ok you said that just to be controversial, didn't you?

DIDN'T YOU???
headache62
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:29:28 PM
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saeseetiin wrote:

I think your idea of the right thing may very well be the wrong thing to do here. I think the best thing to do is not get involved.


Well, let's consider this carefully:

Break the Law with regards to theft. (accessory after the fact, as dnemiller points out)

Obey the Law with regards to theft.

Now, which one is right?

And I personally would be hard pressed to call anyone that I knew that brakes the law my friend, but maybe that is just me.
saeseetiin
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:30:27 PM
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Darth O wrote:
saeseetiin wrote:
headache62 wrote:
[quote=billiv15]
Doing the right thing often is "crazy" :)


And difficult, sometimes the most difficult thing to do - but it is still the right thing to do. [/qu

I think your idea of the right thing may very well be the wrong thing to do here. I think the best thing to do is not get involved.


Ok you said that just to be controversial, didn't you?

DIDN'T YOU???


No I said it because one persons idea of the right can be anothers idea of the wrong or do you think every one is programed like you.
Darth O
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:30:57 PM
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Robin wrote:
Darth O wrote:
headache62 wrote:
billiv15 wrote:

Doing the right thing often is "crazy" :)


And difficult, sometimes the most difficult thing to do - but it is still the right thing to do.


And remember everyone, always ask, What Would Jesus Do?BlooMilk


Crying thats touching guys.

What would Jesus do? What the heck, why would you bring a religious point of view into this? You guys might not agree with me maybe some will, but anyways why would you bring a religious point of view in here choir boy.


You love creating a stir, don't you?

And I thought we were talking about not handling jokes a little while ago!!!LOL
headache62
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:38:28 PM
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Robin wrote:

What would Jesus do? What the ****, why would you bring a religious point of view into this? You guys might not agree with me maybe some will, but anyways why would you bring a religious point of view in here choir boy.


He probably said to try and be funny. Try.

"Religion," as you seem to call it, is vitally important - it provides this thing that is commonly referred to as "morality," otherwise known as the ability to tell right from wrong. Regardless of your religious preference, the two are inextricably linked.

George Washington knew this, and even brought it up in his final Presidential address:

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, Religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labour to subvert these great Pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and citizens. "

You say, It's only $18. I say, this young man could choose to run for office some day (even dog catcher), and I for one don't want someone who is willing to trade his honor and respectability for $18 in office (even if it is just as dog catcher).

And why are you so opposed to religion? You seem to have quite a reaction to it - if you don't want to bring it up in public, please feel free to PM me - I'd really like to get your input on this.
Sithborg
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:48:10 PM
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Joined: 8/24/2008
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You know, I wish I could be surprised by some of these opinions. This thread has been very revealing about some posters, and not in a very good way. Maybe it is the Napster effect, where stealing is viewed more and more as a victomless crime. "Don't be a rat" is the biggest pile of crap I have ever heard. Where does it end? What crime is bad enough that you should be a "rat". Friendship is good and all, but I honestly regret not ratting out a friend on his pot habit. He may actually be around to enjoy this game, which as my main Star Wars buddy, he would've loved. There is no reason this theft is in anyway justifiable, and if you like the LGS, it should be reported.

saeseetiin wrote:
I think your idea of the right thing may very well be the wrong thing to do here. I think the best thing to do is not get involved.


I feel sorry for all those who share this point of view. Doing nothing is the cowards way out. Having some moral courage. Sure, in the long term, a pack of minis is not worth considering. Stealing is still stealing, and dishonesty is still dishonesty, and should not be tolerated. Forcing a friend to see the true consequences will only help him.
Darth O
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:52:18 PM
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Better to have a good name than a rare that you've already got in the end, anywayFlapper
Eroschilles
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:21:27 PM
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Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 812
Location: Parkville, MD
Darth_Jim wrote:
I think Bill's solution is appropriate. I think Eroschilles solution is totally stand up. By doing that, actually paying for the booster and telling the owner what happened and then telling the 'friend', you've basically told the owner you respect him and what he's trying to provide, and you've shown up the 'friend' for the lowly thief that he is. I would go a bit further...tell the owner who did it, and tell the whole game group how you resolved it. By not expecting the money back, your actions speak volumes. I would expect the 'friend' will never do that again, if he even has the guts to show up there anymore.

I know Eroschilles and others at his venue have this kind of respect for their LGS owner. I've seen it.


Thanks for the support Darth Jim. It feels good to know that you think well of us down here even though we don't see you frequently. Smile

But yeah, I think stealing is morally wrong, especially when you are stealing materialistic objects like SWM. Like billiv said earlier, if we were talking about food or another neccessity for survival then we might have a discussion, but SWM is far from that.

If the guy was actually a close friend of the OP, then I could understand hesitation on "ratting" the guy out, but he seemed to be just an associate of his rather than one of his inner circle of friends. Either way, I believe providing an opportunity for the individual to redeem himself is the most appropriate before telling the store owner. But making sure the owner knows he has a problem is very important. Not just because the LGS provides you with the environment where you can enjoy youself, or provides you benefit in long run, or because you are afraid of legal reprecussions if you don't. But because it's just the right thing to do.
saeseetiin
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:03:43 PM
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Location: New York City
Sithborg wrote:
You know, I wish I could be surprised by some of these opinions. This thread has been very revealing about some posters, and not in a very good way. Maybe it is the Napster effect, where stealing is viewed more and more as a victomless crime. "Don't be a rat" is the biggest pile of crap I have ever heard. Where does it end? What crime is bad enough that you should be a "rat". Friendship is good and all, but I honestly regret not ratting out a friend on his pot habit. He may actually be around to enjoy this game, which as my main Star Wars buddy, he would've loved. There is no reason this theft is in anyway justifiable, and if you like the LGS, it should be reported.

saeseetiin wrote:
I think your idea of the right thing may very well be the wrong thing to do here. I think the best thing to do is not get involved.


I feel sorry for all those who share this point of view. Doing nothing is the cowards way out. Having some moral courage. Sure, in the long term, a pack of minis is not worth considering. Stealing is still stealing, and dishonesty is still dishonesty, and should not be tolerated. Forcing a friend to see the true consequences will only help him.

I never said stealing is right but its not like he took all the money from the register what kind of freind gets his friend in trouble to teach him a lesson its was 1 booster get over it and I said if he is freindly with the owner he should tell him to keep an eye out or something not go and tell him who and what happened
Xeonaught
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:23:37 PM
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Guilt trip your friend into either fronting up or returing what was stolen. get him to take 18 dollars down to the LGS and talk to the manager and pay for the booster. I think the manager will be understanding and wonrt see a need to get the law involved howerver your friend will probly be banned from the store
Zalkrie
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:07:22 PM
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This thread really shows how far our society has fallen. People that think stealing of any kind isn't that big a deal is unbelievable. Especially from the LGS. This isn't a chain store here. The LGS owner has to account for every penny, just to stay in business, much less worrying about keeping his family afloat. It's just one $18 dollar pack........what if he stole that pack from you. Would you still feel the same way? Somehow, I think you would want it back. As Bill said, it is not how much he stole, He commited a crime. Stealing is stealing......and if he doesn't feel guilty about stealing a pack of Star wars minis, eventually he won't feel bad about moving on to stealing bigger things.
dnemiller
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:41:18 PM
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Robin wrote:


Just so you know big guy im plenty responsible im going to collage and have my own job so i can go to collage. So i whould know someone before i start to call people irrespossible. So your telling me that 18 dollars is a stores biggest problem? i would check that again copper, because if there worring about losing 18 dollars they have bigger problem, like i don't know how about not having any bussiness. The person that pays for theft is the retailer not the person unless they get cought? I would of gessed a cop would know this, oh well.


Well little guy then obviously you know nothing about business. The retailer and the manufacturer never... ever... ever pay for theft. We do. I think after retiring as a Chief of Police I am little closer to the necessary knowledge than you are. Do you even know what it costs wizards of the coast to produce a booster of minis???? $3.00 and that is rounded up for this conversation. It is actually under 3. Every company that produces anything for sale on this planet covers losses from theft. How do they do it??? Their price. It is built into the price. When I gave my seminars to retailers what they did not know is the actual costs of theft. I arrested a man back in 1993. He was part of a group of 4 people. Do you know how much those 4 people had ripped off in 1 year from retailers???? 16 millions dollars in merchandise using credit cards. Do you have any clue how many thieves there are out there????
Retail theft is in the hundreds of millions every year. If these company's claimed the loss on insurance it would force them out of business. They could not afford the premiums. If they just took the loss they would have to shut their doors. They are there to make a profit. So what do they do. They pass that cost on to us the consumers as a cost of doing business.

I am reitred from law enforcment now. Do you know what I do now??? I coordinate the Loss Prevention for Missouri's Largest Tractor dealer. Why do I have this job??? Because they need me to make sure their tractors are getting paid for when they leave the lot. I am cheaper than paying high insurance premiums and my yearly salary is about half the cost of their tractors.

Do you think a little game store owner dependent on people who apparently think theft is ok needs $18 bucks????? I would think so if you are endorsing being so freakin cheap that you cannot pay for a booster. Your stance makes you look like a moron. I amazed that young people today have so little morals.... but then again I saw it for the last twenty years.....

I promise you if the guy has stolen from this store and told you about it... well it wasnt his first time. Most people start by stealing from their friends before moving on to retailers that are guaranteed to prosecute. So for all those giving advice to watch your minis when he is around... my guess he has already gotten something from the original poster. It might have not been minis but I promise you he got something.
klecser
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:52:03 PM
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I had this feeling when I read the first thread that people would be conflicted about this. And part of that confliction is that some posters here seem to "know" (debatable) that this is wrong, yet don't see it as that big of a deal. He asked for advice. He got the (good) advice that some of you didn't want to hear. And now you're arguing with the people that gave him the advice.

You should have known that this is the advice that he was going to get. You should have known that we weren't all going to say "oh, this isn't a big deal".

The bottom line is that if he doesn't say anything, he's no better than the guy who steals. "What kind of friend gets a friend in trouble to teach him a lesson?" A friend with integrity, who understands that having integrity is more important than keeping a friend who has none.

Whats more tragic here is that certain posters in this thread have resorted to personal attacks. "You don't have any friends, thats why you are saying these things." What a load of immature drivel. News flash: Adults keep the friends that matter. The one's who have integrity. I also find it ironic that the posters who claim they "know something" about this issue and are in "collage" can't spell worth a lick. What is it like spending your life in a piece of art that is pieced together from scraps of other art? You're in a collage? Really? Now, some might call that last paragraph an ad hominem attack, but I'm prepared to argue that the experience of the poster, while not required, is suspect in this case.
dnemiller
Posted: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:18:02 AM
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klecser wrote:
I had this feeling when I read the first thread that people would be conflicted about this. And part of that confliction is that some posters here seem to "know" (debatable) that this is wrong, yet don't see it as that big of a deal. He asked for advice. He got the (good) advice that some of you didn't want to hear. And now you're arguing with the people that gave him the advice.

You should have known that this is the advice that he was going to get. You should have known that we weren't all going to say "oh, this isn't a big deal".

The bottom line is that if he doesn't say anything, he's no better than the guy who steals. "What kind of friend gets a friend in trouble to teach him a lesson?" A friend with integrity, who understands that having integrity is more important than keeping a friend who has none.

Whats more tragic here is that certain posters in this thread have resorted to personal attacks. "You don't have any friends, thats why you are saying these things." What a load of immature drivel. News flash: Adults keep the friends that matter. The one's who have integrity. I also find it ironic that the posters who claim they "know something" about this issue and are in "collage" can't spell worth a lick. What is it like spending your life in a piece of art that is pieced together from scraps of other art? You're in a collage? Really? Now, some might call that last paragraph an ad hominem attack, but I'm prepared to argue that the experience of the poster, while not required, is suspect in this case.


Yeah the whole collage thing kind of blew me away. Chase is a junior at Oklahoma State college of Engineering and he cant spell worth a lick.... but college that is an easy one.

You know the real shame here is I have always bragged on the Star Wars community. I always tell people you dont have to worry at Gencon about theft in the Star Wars area.

But after reading this thread and the other thread about the dad who took his son's minis. That was just as sad. There were some of the posters there endorsing violence against the dad.

It is a real shame to see that some the posters think that stealing is ok and violence against their parents. Wow!! Just sad.
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