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Balance Committee Announcement 8/6/2021 Options
DarkDracul
Posted: Friday, August 6, 2021 7:39:19 PM
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Location: Kokomo
The Balance Committee remains in discussion on several topics. We still intend to make a full announcement including all decisions in early February 2022. However, due to the number of topics being covered and increased fall games, we will announce some decisions as we go. These will be official rulings for all SWMGamers sanctioned 2022 regional & championship events. Please confirm with your tournament organizer if they will be implementing any of these rulings in any events prior to the 2022 competitive season.

Balance Committee Announcement 8/6/2021

Errata: Rigged Detonators

Old Card Text:
Rigged Detonators [Characters in or adjacent to a square with low objects automatically fail saves against this character's attacks and abilities]

Old Glossary Text: Characters, enemies and allies alike, who occupy a square in or adjacent to low objects automatically fail saves against this character’s attacks or abilities.


New Card Text:
Rigged Detonators [Characters in or adjacent to a square with low objects automatically fail saves against this character's Grenades, Mines, and Missiles special abilities]

New Glossary Text:
Characters, enemies and allies alike, who occupy a square in or adjacent to low objects automatically fail saves against this character’s Grenades, Mines, and Missiles special abilities.


SWM ERRATA CARDS <<< Click On this Link for Printable PDF of Errata Cards.



Udorian84
Posted: Friday, August 6, 2021 8:00:06 PM
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Well that stinks since Zam is my favorite piece in the game.
gandalfthegreatestwizard
Posted: Friday, August 6, 2021 8:07:07 PM
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I hadn't noticed before that Wesell is spelled incorrectly on Zam's card.
gandalfthegreatestwizard
Posted: Friday, August 6, 2021 8:10:59 PM
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Joined: 4/30/2017
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Location: Lower Hutt, New Zealand
But yeah I'm with Udorian, Zam didn't need the nerf so this change should have been targeted at Mira, like the Suppressive Fire change should have been targeted at Morrigan. A hit and a miss.
DarkDracul
Posted: Friday, August 6, 2021 8:37:39 PM
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I just suggested the BC consider lowering her cost and correct the spelling of her name. I could probably do the name fix without their permission. Funny, that it's never come up before considering her bloomilk entry is correctly spelled.
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, August 6, 2021 9:06:15 PM
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Joined: 5/3/2014
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I am always one for making things "flavorful". But there are hundreds of things that don't make any sense. Again. Balance committee is for creating balance. This did very very little to nerf Mira. People were complaining about not being able to use maps.... Shooting a high defense piece in cover (say a 24) means she needs a 6 to hit. Is it worth shooting? when you could possibly do 0, 30, or 60 damage when you can auto drop 40?
it is not going to affect her very much and it is still going to be just as dangerous being in a green square. This game is a game of cost. Cost is everything. Mira is still the perennial power at the 28 cost. Who can argue that? She is by far the best in that range.

All this did was make a change that no one really cared about (If people are going to claim it is because it does not make sense I will crap a brick. I have been fighting for years for things that make NO SENSE at all and no one cares. It would be total nonsense if anyone claimed accuracy as a reason for a BALANCE committee change).

This did nothing to fix balance in any way. Total fail. All it did was hurt Zam, who is a near perfect piece and very fun to play.
jen'ari
Posted: Friday, August 6, 2021 9:07:54 PM
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DarkDracul wrote:
I just suggested the BC consider lowering her cost and correct the spelling of her name. I could probably do the name fix without their permission. Funny, that it's never come up before considering her bloomilk entry is correctly spelled.


YAY! lets fix the problems we created by a knee jerk reaction to a piece that didn't even win!
Some one calls you "lethargic" and we get a ruling a week later. c'mon that is silly.

Someone please explain to me what was balanced.
TimmerB123
Posted: Friday, August 6, 2021 10:33:47 PM
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Out of all the things that actually need changed, one that really didn't need to happen gets the focus.

Words escape me.
Caedus
Posted: Friday, August 6, 2021 11:04:45 PM
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Mmmmm, I love the smell of petulance and toxicity. Very pungent.
DarkDracul
Posted: Saturday, August 7, 2021 1:50:35 AM
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This change means Saves when hit by Attacks from characters with Rigged Detonators are no longer auto-fails. Mira and Zam both benefit from several Attack and Damage boosts. Mira can be in the ballpark of +18~22atk for 60~80dam and Zam around +19~25atk for 30~80 damage. Zam’s Final Shot is often +21~+25atk for 60 damage on characters with 50hp. Now those enemies get to make Evade or Lightsaber D. Saves against those attacks.

This change also means that after auto-failing the Grenades or Missiles Save characters now get to make Saves with abilities like Beskar'gam or Force Attuned Armor to reduce the damage. Mira does 40 auto damage and Zam 30~60 auto damage potentially to multiple characters on the board. Now those characters who have invested their cost into survivability might stand a better chance.

This decision was not based upon the theme. However, suddenly losing your armor or forgetting how to deflect a blaster bolt because you’re standing near a shrub is odd. Mira and Zam were doing an insurmountable amount of unpreventable damage for most characters. Even on our best maps, especially around the map center, it is also nearly impossible to avoid low cover.

Rigged Detonators was the least contentious issue and the quickest for the committee to agree on a solution. This was only the first decision with more likely to come. Other topics will require more time and discussion for there to be a resolution.

For many years the Balance Committee has only had to deal with a few topics and this year we are dealing with a dozen. We felt the community would appreciate us revealing more of our decision-making process instead of holding off until next year. As stated earlier these announcements are not 100% official until our final announcement in 2022.

Thank you for your patience and understanding. ThumpUp

DD
jen'ari
Posted: Saturday, August 7, 2021 4:30:47 AM
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Joined: 5/3/2014
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DarkDracul wrote:
This change means Saves when hit by Attacks from characters with Rigged Detonators are no longer auto-fails. Mira and Zam both benefit from several Attack and Damage boosts. Mira can be in the ballpark of +18~22atk for 60~80dam and Zam around +19~25atk for 30~80 damage. Zam’s Final Shot is often +21~+25atk for 60 damage on characters with 50hp. Now those enemies get to make Evade or Lightsaber D. Saves against those attacks.

This change also means that after auto-failing the Grenades or Missiles Save characters now get to make Saves with abilities like Beskar'gam or Force Attuned Armor to reduce the damage. Mira does 40 auto damage and Zam 30~60 auto damage potentially to multiple characters on the board. Now those characters who have invested their cost into survivability might stand a better chance.

This decision was not based upon the theme. However, suddenly losing your armor or forgetting how to deflect a blaster bolt because you’re standing near a shrub is odd. Mira and Zam were doing an insurmountable amount of unpreventable damage for most characters. Even on our best maps, especially around the map center, it is also nearly impossible to avoid low cover.

Rigged Detonators was the least contentious issue and the quickest for the committee to agree on a solution. This was only the first decision with more likely to come. Other topics will require more time and discussion for there to be a resolution.

For many years the Balance Committee has only had to deal with a few topics and this year we are dealing with a dozen. We felt the community would appreciate us revealing more of our decision-making process instead of holding off until next year. As stated earlier these announcements are not 100% official until our final announcement in 2022.

Thank you for your patience and understanding. ThumpUp

DD


I agree that that should have been what rigged detonators was from the beginning. I 100% agree with that. But it wasn't.
It is not a balance issue. Heck it is not even an issue except for 1 or 2 people.
The balance committee made a flavor decision because a few people said so.
12 things to discuss?? Is one of them how to balance the factions or are they more absurd things like this?

Didn't you just beat Mira in the finals? On a map with tons of green squares?

Like I said, if you bundle up multiple people in green squares against Mira or zam you are simply an idiot or inexperienced against rigged detonators.

Because the piece makes it hard on others isn't a reason to change it. Only if it is unbalanced. This is the exact same reason why bastila has been nerfed by the design team. This type of thinking hurts the game.
jen'ari
Posted: Saturday, August 7, 2021 4:40:41 AM
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Caedus wrote:
Mmmmm, I love the smell of petulance and toxicity. Very pungent.


What the heck are you talking about?
Petulance? Toxicity?

I can't speak for others, but this change affects my playing and my squad design. TN loves Zam. I get together with people and play quite frequently. I keep looking for the game to be where it could be and the balance (aka flavor) team keeps going the wrong way.

It it's not toxicity to bring up disagreements. It is not petulance to be upset and bring it up.
I never would have thought from that post from tint where so many people in the community said it is not a problem that this would have came out of it.

Same ol same ol. A few people change the game to their liking.

What I smell is selfishness.
jak
Posted: Saturday, August 7, 2021 6:39:54 AM
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my daughter-in-law once told us" you all are a bunch of chuckle heads"

now YOU guys are a bunch of chuckle heads!

this toxicity is Not good for the game

jen'ari
Posted: Saturday, August 7, 2021 6:52:25 AM
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Every time someone is upset it is "toxic" what kind of lives do you all live with everything being so perfect?


It baffles me.
thereisnotry
Posted: Saturday, August 7, 2021 7:15:39 AM
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Great news! Thanks, all of you on the Balance Committee who wrestled with this. I think this will make a subtle, but noticeable difference going forward.

There are obviously other things yet to be decided (as per the Suggestions thread), but I'm glad to see that things are moving along.

EDIT: And fwiw, I would totally support a cost fix to Zam BH to account for this shift in RD.
jen'ari
Posted: Saturday, August 7, 2021 7:41:43 AM
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thereisnotry wrote:

EDIT: And fwiw, I would totally support a cost fix to Zam BH to account for this shift in RD.


Well the great one has spoken! Let it be so! I fully expect a decision in the next 3 days....
Weak
jen'ari
Posted: Saturday, August 7, 2021 7:44:30 AM
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I guess I hate being pandered to.

Oh ya we messed with something you really enjoy that is not a problem in any way, shape, or form.... But we will make another change to fix it.

How does that make it any better? I swear it is like people here have no real life experience.
DarkDracul
Posted: Saturday, August 7, 2021 9:58:51 AM
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Joined: 4/18/2008
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2020 Championship – 1st place with Mira. (Three Mira squads at the final table.)
2020 December Vassal Regional – 3rd & 4th place with Mira.
2021 January Tourney – 2nd & 5th with Mira (Daala won)
2021 March 7th Tourney – 1st & 2nd with Mira
2021 March 21st Tourney – 2nd place with Mira
2021 April Tourney – 1st, 2nd & 5th place with Mira
2021 May Tourny – 6th place with Mira
2021 June Kokomo In-person tourney– 3rd place with Mira
2021 July Tourney – 1st place Mira
2021 July NZ Championship – 1st place with Mira
2021 Championship – 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 13th, 15th with Mira. (Six Mira squads, 4 out of the top 6 had Mira.)

*Multiple complaints from players saying there's a problem.
*The most experienced Mira players saying there's a problem.
*Unanimous 7 person vote for errata by all members of the Balance Committee.
jen'ari
Posted: Saturday, August 7, 2021 10:06:38 AM
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Yes. She is clearly the 28 point piece leader.
She is clearly good.
If she is a problem. Fix HER.
Not screw with Others.
I suggested dropping base damage to 10.
If that didn't do it raise the cost to other good pieces so she is not auto include.

On top of that.... Yoda on kybuck has good showings all the time. Doesn't win. Mira lost. Darla was changed because there was no beating her. Mira gets beat all the time.

Design team has had many years to do sobering about her.
Sabine stops rigged detonators within 6 squares....
jen'ari
Posted: Saturday, August 7, 2021 10:07:47 AM
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Who are the balance committee members?

And again changes should only EVER influence the piece in question.
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